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So many dual class options with the NPCs!

Discussion in 'Baldur's Gate' started by Klorox, Dec 27, 2007.

  1. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!

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    I never realized how customizable so many of the BGI NPCs are! There are 6 NPCs you can legally dual-class in this game!

    Dynaheir, with her 17 INT and 15 WIS can become and Invoker > Cleric with 2 WIS tomes.

    Imoen, with her 18 DEX and 17 INT can become a Thief > Mage (or specialist).

    Branwen, with her 16 WIS and 16 DEX can become a Cleric > Thief with the DEX tome.

    Safana, with her 17 DEX and 16 INT can become a Thief > Mage (or specialist) with the INT tome.

    Shar-Teel, with her 18/58 STR and 17 DEX can become a Fighter > Thief.

    Xzar, with his 16 DEX, 17 INT and 16 WIS can become a Necromancer > Cleric with the WIS tome, or a Necromancer > Thief with the DEX tome. That's versatility!

    Now, I know most of these tomes can't be found very early on, so you're kind of limited with the timing of everything. A quick journey to Durlag's Tower will enable Xzar to become a Necromancer > Cleric if you wish though, and both Imoen and Shar-Teel don't need tomes.

    I always thought BGI had so many possibilities with all of those NPCs out there, but now I see even more possibilities with the fun tool of dual-classing!
     
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  2. Redrake

    Redrake New Member

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    I doubt you are in any shape early on to fight Helmed Horrors.:p
    Really, there's no point in dual-classing the NPCs except maybe Imoen, if you are using another Thief. I did that several times, using Safana (Alora, later on) as a thief and Imoen as mage from level 2.
     
  3. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot <font color="#FFFFFF">Mod Reviewer</font><br>Armed

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    Klorox,

    While I agree with you in principle, I'd also say that I think there is little point of doing this. Aside from the impractical part of most of the tomes not being available until Chapter 5 or 6, you can usually find a multi-classed or even single-classed NPC that can perform the same function as the proposed dual-class.

    The two exceptions I see to this would be Imoen and Shar-Teel. They both have the advantage of not needing any of the tomes, meaning you have total control of when you'd like to dual-class them. Imoen makes a good dual class because there are so many capable single and multi classed thieves in the game that you won't miss out on having Imoen making the switch. Add in the fact that Imoen will be able to use thief weapons, and even if that means using a short bow +1 for most of the game, it's better than the options of other mages. There also is little need for a mage in the early parts of the game, and as such, you can even allow Imoen to gain a few levels as a thief before dual classing her. I usually prefer dual-classing early, and would not let her go beyond level 4 (when she gains another weapon proficiency).

    Shar-Teel also makes a good dual class because of her exceptional strength. In that sense, making her a thief gives you access to the best back-stabbing option in the game. The smart move here is to wait until she gets to level 3 as a fighter so you can place another another proficiency point into either small or large swords. Then when you hit level 4 as a thief, you get yet another proficiency point, which could also be placed into short or large swords, and you'll still earn yet another proficiency point by the end of the game, meaning you can have 5*s in a weapon choice, which is a nifty little trick that I don't think any other NPC can pull off.

    As for the other options you listed, I'd never do it, mostly because there are multi-classed options in the game that would offer more versatility to your party. For example, since we're talking about waiting until Chapter 5 for these dual class options anyway, I'd rather have Tiax then Branwen dual-classed into a thief, and I'd rather have Quayle as opposed to a Xzar dual classed into a cleric or Dynaheir dual ckassed into a cleric. Safana is just redundant of Imoen, and there's no reason to use a tome to switch her into a mage when you can do the same with Imoen without using a tome. (Although I admit I never considered this particular dual class option until you just mentioned it - probably because if I wanted a thief->mage dual class, I used Imoen.)
     
  4. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!

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    I never thought all of these options were good ones (as a matter of fact, the only ones I'd even consider are Imoen, Branwen, and Shar-Teel), I just wanted to point out that the option was there, and I think that's kinda cool!

    I mean, in BGII, you have the option with Yoshimo, and possibly the protagonist.

    All other duals have already happened.
     
  5. Ironmancal2131

    Ironmancal2131 Nice head, I think I'll take it

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    Aldeth, do you play with BG Tutu? Because in vanilla BG it's impossible to get 5 * in anything legally.
     
  6. MindChild

    MindChild Science may set limits to knowledge, but should no

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    i thought if you started as a fighter and dualed after you got 5 * that it would work...
     
  7. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot <font color="#FFFFFF">Mod Reviewer</font><br>Armed

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    I have played BG both with and without Tutu, but I thought it was possible to do it only in the way I stated using vanilla BG as well. Unless the 2 proficiency point limit to multi-classes also applies to dual classes (although I was under the impression that it didn't), it should be possible.

    You can't get 5 stars by playing a straight fighter, because the game only allows you to place two stars in any single proficiency during character creation. So you could make a character like Shar-Teel with 2 proficiency points in small and large swords. Upon reaching level 3 as a fighter, you could place a 3rd star into small swords. Upon reaching level 4 as a thief, you'll get your fighter proficiencies back, and you'll also get a profociency from your thief class. This could similarly be placed in small swords, and you'd now have a total of 4. You'd then earn another proficiency at level 8 (this happens at 70,000 XP, combined with the 4,000 XP you would need for your fighter levels, this should be possible even without TotSC), and that profociency should be able to go into small swords too for a total of five.

    Can someone explain why this doesn't work, if in fact it does not?
     
  8. Ironmancal2131

    Ironmancal2131 Nice head, I think I'll take it

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    BG doesn't work the same as the second game. Okay, you start off as a Fighter, you level to 3 to get the extra * to have 3 * in Swords. You then dual class to a thief. I'm guessing since you already have 3 * in Swords, as a thief you can't put anymore in, since the only class that can get more than 2 * in anything is a Fighter. Like I said earlier, it was changed for the second game, probably because you could get to such a high level. I'm not too sure on that one. I haven't studied BG II as much as I studied the first game... yet!
     
  9. raptor

    raptor New Member

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    In Baldurs Gate 1 with or without expantionpack the max number of stars you can get into any one weapon is 4.

    This is becose you can only reach level 7 in the normal game (Limit 89000xp), and level 8 with fighter in the expantionpack (limit 161000xp).

    Level 7 = 64000
    Level 8 = 125000
    Level 9 = 250000

    And becose the earliest point any fighter can get the "grand mastery" (aka 5 stars) is at level 9.

    And no prof points for different classes when dual classing does not stack. If you take a fighter with Specialisation (2*) in bow, and at level 2 dualclass him to thief, putting Proficiency (1*) in bow, at level 3 thief he will get Specialisation back from the fighter levels and not Mastery (3*).
     
  10. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot <font color="#FFFFFF">Mod Reviewer</font><br>Armed

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    Raptor,

    I think you missed my point. I already stated it was impossible with a straight fighter in my previous post. The question concerned a level 3 fighter dual classed to a thief. A thief gets additional proficiency points at level 4 and level 8, and hits level 8 at just 70,000XP.

    You are correct that you cannot stack proficiencies while one class is still inactive. However, (unless this is yet another difference between BG1 and BG2) once the old class reactivates and your proficiencies re-appear, you can place additional points in the old proficiency. Using your example below, once your thief hit level 3 and the fighter level came back, you COULD place a third * it bows upon receiving your next proficiency point (which will occur once you hit level 4). It was because of this that I thought it was possible to get up to 5*s. Regardless, if you are using Tutu, which uses the BG2 rules, you absolutely should be able to do this.
     
  11. raptor

    raptor New Member

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    Then, that is a "bug" in BG2. Not in BG1.
     
  12. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot <font color="#FFFFFF">Mod Reviewer</font><br>Armed

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    Possibly. Alternatively, it could be a "bug" in BG1 and correctly implemented in BG2. From my PnP days, I always interpreted the rules that once the fighter levels were restored, you regained fighter abilities - including the ability to place more than one point in each proficiency slot.
     
  13. Felinoid

    Felinoid <a href="http://www.sorcerers.net/Supporters/index

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    You regained "previous" fighter abilities. You didn't become a hybrid.
     
  14. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!

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    Hmm, from my PnP days I only remember their being "non-proficient" "Proficient" and "Specialized" as options with weapons. And only single-classed Fighters could become specialized in weapons, nobody else (no Paladins or Rangers).

    I also remember only being allowed to become specialized in one weapon, but that might be a house rule.
     
  15. raptor

    raptor New Member

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    @Klorox

    Ah yes, the expanded weapon specialisation is from "Players Option: Combat and Tactics" (If my memory isn't having a hickup again). So you are quite correct that the Basic PHB only listed Non-prof, prof, Spesialisation (for fighter only). PO:CnT is/was one of the more popular books for 2E, lots of interesting/fun alternatives.

    @Aldeth

    As Kittynoid allready said, you only regain existing abilities, you don't actually get fighter as primary class again. And yes, I will be the first to agree that the 2E system made absolutelly no sense at all in regards to dualclassing.
     
  16. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!

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    Wow, those players options books were shunned like a red headed stepchild in the groups I played in.

    Yech!
     
  17. jiansonz

    jiansonz New Member

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    Yes, the games are different in this regard. I was very surprised that I could give Anomen more than ** in a weapon when he levelled up as a Cleric. (Not that I am complaining, he was great with Grand Mastery both with Sling and Flail at the end of ToB).

    On the original subject: I once played BG 1 with a party where all characters were dual-classed. I do not remember what my main character was (Fighter level 6 -> Druid is likely, I liked the massive HP potential of those), but I teamed up with all the NPCs you list except Dynaheir. I had Xzar as a Cleric.
     
  18. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot <font color="#FFFFFF">Mod Reviewer</font><br>Armed

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    That was the exact character I was thinking about in BG2. I knew you could go past ** with Anomen, and thus assumed that all fighter dual classes could as well (and if you played BGTuTu, that you'd be able to do so in BG1).
     
  19. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!

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    I'm bumping my own thread here as a reference for myself.

    That being said, I don't think I'd even consider dual classing Branwen. Just Imoen or Shar-Teel.
     
  20. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again

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    Xzar is missing from that list. With the Wis tomes, he also can become a cleric.
     
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