Trouble in Utopia?

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Since the Alley is usually a bash America fest...I thought I'd even it out a bit. I came across an article this morning that I found shocking. But I guess it shouldn't be considering this took place in France.

Six people assault woman on Parisian train as passengers WATCH!!!

This blows my mind! How do people sit back and watch a young woman with a small child get attacked like this, and do NOTHING to stop them?!?!? If this happened on a train I was on, I would at least try to help them. This is just incredible!!

 

This is not a unique case, here in the Netherlands, numerous of bystanders watched a young man get beaten to death by a bunch of drunken savages, nobody lifted a finger or said a word.

On a sidenote, occasionally someone DOES try to do something about it, but then he gets beaten to death as well, like what happened in the Netherlands two years ago.

Another example involves one of my classmates, who tried to be the peacemaker in a fight between one of his friends and a guy in another group, in a bar on a saturdaynight. Just when he stepped between the two troublemakers, one of em pulled a gun, a opened fire on his foe, shooting down my classmate who got caught in the line of fire. His last words were: guys...guys.... let's not.... and then a gunshot ended his life at 17.

It's things like this why people aren't very eager to step in an arguement or a fight between two strangers.

 

And to read the threads in the Alley, you'd think Europe is Paradise, where there are no problems, and no issues to confront. Go figure.

<< No smack on you, personally, PacMan, I just get a little tired of hearing where the US goes wrong, yet it appears countries in Europe have problems too. >>

 

Useless Violence is a serious problem in europe indeed. And when you try to help the victems your life is as risk as well since everybody seems to carry a gun or knife lately...

Sick sad world!

 

We have our bad cases as well sir Bel, a few years back some kid shot down his teacher and fellow students in the middle of the school. Now whether that happened because the first case was in America we'll never know but Europe has it's share of horror cases.

Maybe because Europe doesn't really flaunter around with their happinesses and victories and likewise with there their bad cases.

 

As have been said, this type of sheit happens everywhere, sadly, but for every such case I am sure there are many cases where the bystanders did do something. This is a cold world and I wish I shared your positive view of Europe Bel. France and UK and the other big nations are hellholes. Not like fancy wonderful safe beautiful Scandinavia.

 

I'm pretty sure Anna Lindh has a different opinion on that...wherever she may be.

 

I second that feeling Sir Bel. I would do something. I would try to stop it. And maybe that's what gets America in trouble so much. We try to do the right thing, and sometimes it just goes horribly wrong. If I was there and tried to stop it, would I have been killed? Quite possibly. But the thing is, I wouldn't think that at the time of my actions. Most Americans - and the older you get the more true this becomes - for some reason try to do the "noble" thing, for lack of a better word. (And before people start going off on me for this, I'm speaking of the "average American", not the current U.S. administration.) Would stepping in be misguided and potentially harmful to me? Probably. But it is doing the right thing - I know I'm not explaining this well, so I'll just stop - it's not easy to put into words.

 

Umm, Aldeth, not to be stereotypical or anything here but I really dont think this thing is something special for France or Europe or that it wouldnt happen in the US. I saw a bit on a show a while ago, I think it was Letterman and the timetaking man but I am not sure, where they put a man to look like he was unconscious on the street to see how long it took for someone to help him. No one did. So I really think people are just as unhelpful and helpful everywhere.

Pac Man, I had hoped people would understand the irony of my statement seeing as I even put up a winking smiley, and see it for what it is, a poke at peoples general leaning towards defending their part of the world and attacking all others.

 

you know, this article misses important details, such as how many passengers? could have only been 2 elderly people in the carrage, what the attackers were armed with? for all we know 3 of them had guns while the rest had knives.

dont judge other people by what they do or dont do based on poor information - and to the people who said that they would do something:
would you? how do you know that?

 

Obviously, I can't prove to anybody in any manner whatsoever that I would act. I only can only guess at my actions based on past experiences I have had, and in the rare cases where action has been necessary, I've always helped the person in need.

For example, when I was in my early 20s, I was driving through the snowy mountains of northern Pennsylvania, and there was an accident in which a car flipped over. These are in the backroads, where there aren't many homes, businesses, etc. While I did not see the accident happen, it was clear that I had to be one of the first people to arrive. There was a car on the side of the road on its roof. The one back tire was still spinning slowly - it had to have happened minutes before. There was a man trapped in the vehicle, and his girlfriend (or possibly wife) was thrown from the vehicle and was lying on the road.

The man was very panic-stricken, as he was stuck in the car and fully conscious, and he could see his girlfriend lying unconscoius in the middle of the road, just waiting to get run over by a car. I was with a friend at the time. My friend and I took off our coats and covered the woman lying on the road. My friend ran for help as I stayed with the two victims - giving what first aid I could, but primarily to stand in the middle of the road and make sure a car did not run over the woman. The woman had a head wound, and was probably in shock, she clearly needed medical attention beyond what I could provide. They guy seemed pretty OK. If he wasn't bleeding internally or anything, he would probably walk away with a couple of cuts and bruises.

Eventually paramedics arrived and we left. Now, I admit that my action is not the same thing as confronting a group of armed attackers, but seeing as how the road was snow covered, one car had already lost control, slid off the road and flipped, and there I was standing in the middle of the slippery road, I would dare say that I was putting my own self at risk to help this woman. If another car had come speeding by, it is quite likely that they could have hit me AND the woman.

My friend and I could have easily kept driving and pulled into a gas station a couple of miles away and called for help, but we didn't. We helped then and there. I can't say for sure what I would have done in the situation Sir Bel mentioned. But every part of my conscious tells me that in that situation I would have taken action. You'd be surprised at what a moment's confidence could do to shake the resolve of a couple of punks even if the numbers are clearly in their favor. I would help. I stand by that statement.

 

100% agree.

 

I don't think I'm a bad person, but if there were two big thugs with knives attacking somebody, I would be extremely unlikely to jump in and help because I'd probably get maimed. I'm sorry, but that would be nuts, especially as I probably wouldn't be much help anyway (see the Computer Addicts thread - I'd probably try and reload the game or cast Haste). The best thing I could do would be to run away and call the police.

 

I completely see your point. For me, my conscience wouldn't allow me to not intervene. I couldn't live with myself if I found out someone was killed and I could have potentially stopped it. This of course, is with the caveat that I could stop it an not get killed myself. I can take being hurt - I'm young enough to recover, but I don't want to die yet.

 

well, as i said, i dont think the article gives us enough information for us to judge other people

 

It does, it tells us that noone in the entire train, or at least the compartment it happened in, had the balls to stand up against these 6 north Africans. Which, if you've read carefully, is in a way understandable, since they were obviously carrying knives, or scissors, since they took a hairloom of the woman.

Now, i'm not easily scared, but i won't take on six guys with sharp objects in their hands, i'm not suicidal. I would however take out my cellphone, call the police and give them a detailed description of our six heroes, and follow them when they get off the train to inform the law where they're heading.

Well... either that, or i'll grab my glock and shoot the bastards.

 

kind of hard to give an opinion unless you were there on the train.

A few years ago I walked out of a shopping mall and saw an elderly man in a car getting acosted by a very large man. I don't know why I didn't yell or go for help, but I didn't. Instead I ran over to the car, and then proceded to chase the man through the parking lot. He ran to a car with about 4 other guys in it, opened the back door, and the car took off and dragged him about 50 yards through the parking lot until the passengers inside pulled him in(it was obvious that they were his friends).

Now here's the kicker. I was going to hop in my car and chase them down, but I figured that i better go check on the old man that was being robbed. When I got to his car he was shaking very badly. He told me that that was the bravest thing he had ever seen. When I told him that it wasn't that brave, he exclamed "that man was holding the biggest gun I have ever seen"!

Obviously I didn't see the gun, but apparently he had it in his hand the entire time I was chasing him!

I've often wondered if I would have done the same thing had I seen the pistol.

 

I don't think this a Europe specific case. In case you haven't noticed: bad things happen everywhere.

 

5 years ago, about 10 minutes after 'Christmas in the Park' in Auckland I was in my parents car in Newmarket (a fairly busy part of Auckland, close to central city). There are about 4 lanes and traffic was heavy so the cars weren't moving anywhere. All of a sudden about 8 men attack another man. I don't know why they attacked him. It seemed completely random to me.

Now this attack wasn't going to be a murder because I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to kill someone in the middle of a busy street. They didn't have any weapons that I could see. The man they were attacking was lying on the ground in a ball and they were kicking him. One large bystander (and this guy was HUGE) runs into the melee and kicks one of the attackers in the back. He falls over and knocks down two of his comrades in the process. The attackers all get up and back off, take measure of the situation then run away.

Now, I'm not exactly a professional combatant or anything but despite the size of the 'savior' those 8 attackers could have easily taken him.

I didn't help because a. I was pretty damn young and small then. b. These attackers were all black and looked fairly rough. c. I was a bit far away and in a car. d. It happened very quickly.

Today, if the same situation occured and if I was with my friends (say about 4 of us total or more) we would have got involved. We would want to help and would gladly face 2:1 against us but we would't want to get slaughtered with worse odds.

Despite the number of bystanders I doubt they would get involved unless they were there with friends who they could count on to back them up. This is because you don't know the other bystanders and if they would help you. Last thing you want to do is end up like the person getting attacked.

However I guess the one who got involved in the case I mentioned is explainable. I mean he was pretty damn big, well muscled, looked about 25, white and bald. Not someone I would want to meet in a dark alley. If he was in prision he would probably be called Duchess or something, possibly Duke the Defiler. So unless you're like our friend 'Duke' here, I don't think many get involved if you're on your own.

 

Did it happen? Or didn't it? Amazingly, there seems to be no proof that this attack actually took place. Surveillance cameras showed no gang emerging at the station, and no eyewitnesses have come forward. Who would make up this kind of crap? We live in a bizarre world. Take a look at the full story here.