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Guide: Experience and you

Discussion in 'Icewind Dale 2' started by Sir Rechet, Dec 6, 2014.

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    I'll leave this here for future reference:

    Code:
    Deep Gnome Cripple xp chart
    
    Level        xp (character sheet)        real xp earned since previous level
    1                 5k                          0
    2                10k                       5000
    3                15k                       5000
    4 (3/1)          21k                       6000
    5 (3/1/1)        28k                       8750
    6 (3/1/1/1)      36k                      13333
    7 (3/1/1/1/1)    45k                      22500
    8 (3/1/1/1/1/1)  55k                      50000
                                      TOTAL: 110583    
     
  2. Sir Rechet

    Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Veteran

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    My bad, I didn't specify I use a mod that changes all races' favored class to "any", so no exp penalties. If that bothers you, just make all characters I listed single class and the exp figures are available in an unmodified game.

    I also thought for the longest time that the piecemeal addition of newbies would rule the day, but it just doesn't. I've been breaking old records left, right and center when I switched to "all at once", even more so when I also tried to keep the exp of the first characters doing the push for maximum spawns to its absolute minimum required.

    Just consider the first five rank ten levels in the Battlesquares. Starting at level eight (2 starting + 2 newbies) will net you 12,600 exp per level, even less once you level up your newbies. Starting at level five (max total level 31 for the first two and four newbies) will get you 24,000 per each. Yes, you can only squeeze in max two before you level up, but guess what? You're still getting 21,600 for the third and 16,800 for fourth and fifth. Those five ranks are easily worth more than the entire thing if you start at too high APL.

    Level squatting is the only way to seriously increase your exp total since you don't waste any. Using exp cripples keeps the average level down, yes, but you're tossing away the profits by virtue of having the characters with exp penalties.

    You're also exaggerating the effects of the exp pull caused by being at lower level than usually. At most, you're at ca 30% exp (dis-)advantage per kill for every +/- one level. How's that going to help if you toss away a large portion of your exp gain just to maintain it?

    Edit: Wait a minute, are you suggesting to add the exp cripples close enough to the end of the game so that they don't have the time to eat up the profits? The problem would be chapters two to four, then. There's just too much to kill there so that anything less than six characters is a sure-fire way to forfeit huge chunks of exp. For example, my new record party (1.18M) already had 812k at the end of Chapter Four, leaving a mere 369k exp for the entirety of last two chapters, of which more than 100k is quests.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
  3. Sir Rechet

    Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Veteran

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    Just to humor the thought of actually using four exp cripples, ie. 66% constant exp spoilage. It actually does pay off in HOF mode. To keep up with a corresponding zero MC penalty party, they "only" need to stay four levels behind. (2^0.5)^3=2.8, (2^0,5)^4=4, ie. (roughly) quadruple exp, which is enough to counter the -66% penalty.

    A party of six, of which four are locked at lvl 8, gets behind by that much by the time the four would have been at lvl 14, ie. shortly after the end of Normal mode. The first two characters race up in levels, but the quadratic exp requirements slow them down so that it's also possible to keep the status quo.. and even increase the level delta as you get to later chapters in HOF mode. Sure, you'll need an exp cap remover to keep going on, but yes, I can see it WOULD work.

    APL 22 (standard 26 minus the four required to keep the pace) would net you your four exp cripples at level eight, plus two uber gods at lvl... *drumroll* 50-52. :D That's 1.378M to 1.485M per character, giving you just around 3M total.. Which just happens to correspond to APL 29 party of six equally leveled Deep Gnomes.

    Yay for massacring an exp system!: D
     
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    Ignore HOF, as the challenge is only for normal mode. And exp cap removers are right out.

    However, I think your calculation is a little wrong. To counter a 66% xp penalty, you need to earn 3 times as much xp. So I think the party needs to be log2 (3^2) = 3.17 levels behind, which should come when the cripples would have been at level 8+3.17*6/4 = Level 12.755. And this comes when the normal party would be at level 12.755+3.17 = Level 15.925. So, a little before the end of Normal mode.

    The problem (for my side), is that although we are earning the needed triple combat xp by the end, we may not have been all through the game. And quest xp doesn't get tripled. So maybe the four cripple party won't get there.
     
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    Let's try a three cripple party now. Half our xp is being wasted, so we need to earn twice as much, which means APL needs to be two levels behind a standard party. This happens when the cripples would have been at level 12, which is when the standard party would have been at level 14, well short of the end of normal mode. So I think we can continue from there to end of the game, still earning the needed double xp.

    So what might the party look like at the end? Well, your party ended with 98 total levels, but each character was almost at the next level, so really more like 98+5=103 total levels in terms of xp totals. So let's give my party 103-12 = 91 total levels, and let's bump the disparity up a bit: 26,24,17,8,8,8.
    406k+351k+190k+3x55k= 1112k.

    This seems like a virtual tie with you, except that (a) I forgot to subtract 30k worth of starting xp, and (b) you could improve your total again by going to an all-DG party.
     
  6. Sir Rechet

    Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Veteran

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    The exp cripples idea is a novel one, I'll happily concede that. You could also improve it by making sure you take that singular third class level as your eighth and thus final level-up, going from zero to 100% MC penalty at once. It's like a light version of an exp mule, without the exploitation of the same coding mishap that allows for level squatting.

    It's just that you effectively are stuck with +1.33 APL (8 levels in a party of six) and a permanent 16,7% exp penalty for each and every one of them that kills the idea for Normal mode. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2016
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    Hmm, I ran some numbers where I replaced one level 13 DG in your most recent party with a DG cripple, and I still ended up short some xp.

    However, I think that if you went for an all-DG party, and one with more disparity (adding characters one at a time instead of four at once), you'd benefit from one cripple. The disadvantage is that your total party level should end up about three less; the advantage is you get to pile more levels on your top characters because your worst character is stuck down at level 8.
     
  8. Sir Rechet

    Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Veteran

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    I finally took the "record exp" 6 DG party all the way through HOF mode. Here's the exp progression if you really try to maximize it.

    At the end of Chapter One: 1,519,483
    At the end of Chapter Two: 1,749,801 (quests saved for later)
    At the end of Chapter Three: 1,902,270 (quests saved for later)
    At the end of Chapter Four: 2,159,324
    At the end of Chapter Five: 2,538,482 (quests saved for later)
    Right before final battle: 2,719,856

    Individual exp figures at the end:
    Sorc diplomat 616,160 (exp cap removed)
    Rogue/wizard tank 531,153
    Druid decoy 400,853
    Battlecleric 1 400,847
    Battlecleric 2 400,665
    Battlecleric 3 400,178

    That's APL 27 for those that keep count... but just barely. The rogue/wizard tank leveled up just 3k exp ago...
     
    Cecily Griselda likes this.

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