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Help choosing class combos and feats

Discussion in 'Icewind Dale 2' started by Odd Hermit, Jul 8, 2008.

  1. kylan271 Gems: 2/31
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    The mod to remove Favoured class penalties is the way to go for me. It opened up a new plethora of choices which I did not have before,and allowed me to Role Play as I wanted. It does help with powergaming...,but for Role Playing sake(Viconia or a Drow Paladin of Elistrae etc....)..I a happy. ^_* Dwarf Tempus Cleric(Main Class)+F+Barb...cool(IWD2 Portrait to match yihee,no xp penalties as before).
     
  2. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    I agree with you about alignments. Lawful good self-righteousness can even lead the character to commit evil deeds, justified by their convictions. But because the character is convinced what he does is good, this alignment still suits them. That's why I see Neutral Good as the purest form of goodness.
    Like LG Keldorn: "My wife slept with another man, so by the law they must both die." Anyone reasonable would have worked out in their heads that that's wrong.

    Spells can be dispelled, you know. And they need time to be cast. Champion's Strength and DUHM are options for Paladins to cast at spell levels2 and 5, but to match Rage they'd still need a CON-boost.
    Ilmater's endurance is like the CON part of a Rage, once per day, though a bit longer lasting.
    Aura of Vitality is a high level druid spell, requires casting in a short range, and lasts for a round/level. Nice, but not as easily applied as Rage.
    As for damage resistance, 3/- after a long battle may have helped more than a casting of Iron Skins. After Iron Skins, a level 5 cleric spell, wears off, 80 or less points of damage will have been resisted, after which the cleric takes full damage. The barbarian keeps resisting damage endlessly. Believe me, after any significant IWD2 battle, your frontliners will have taken much more than 8 blows. Not to mention, the barbarian can have Stoneskin cast on him beforehand. The cleric will have a hard time recasting Iron Skins in the midst of battle. When skins run out, barbarians still have resistance, meaning you have less reason to rest.
    The ease at which you can use a barbarian doesn't only mean it's good for beginners, but saves you elaborate buffing schemes before and during combat. Barbarians avoid the risk of casting failure, making them more reliable. The CON bonus from rage is like damage reduction, as damage taken will also be applied to bonus hit points. It all adds up to a character that will stay alive a lot longer in battle than a paladin or cleric (without Heal)
    A paladin or cleric needs to buff up before battle, but a barbarian can't be caught by surprise.
    Even against the most powerful enemies in HoF I saw no need for my barbarian to resort to ranged weapons. Flying Death was better used by someone with less hitpoints in my party. Melee is more reliable to deal out damage, and barbarians have the 'staying power'.

    Actually I have my clerics cast Champion/Bull's Strength on my barbarian too, and get around to using rages when this buff has been dispelled or worn out. Barbarians can keep going for a long time after paladins have run out of spells.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2008
  3. AjaX Gems: 4/31
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    -A handful of enemies cast Dispel Magic, and your chars SHOULD have the capacity to throw them off.
    -Stoneskin>>Ironskin (+5 weapons are VERY rare in the hands of enemies, and only come in late game) and can be cast on anyone, and has a short cast time. And cleric can't cast in the middle of combat? Excuse me, what the hell is Concentration for?
    -Rage is effective early on, yes, but later its no big deal in the least.
    -Elaborate buffing schemes? Spells are meant to be used. What's the big problem with prebuffing and slaughtering monsters while hardly getting hurt in return? That's like the funnest part ever. Second to multiple blasting spells on a horde of buggers though :p
    Spells DURING combat should be restricted to stuff like Mirror Image, Tenser's, or attack spells. All else should be done before.
    -Palading spellcasting isn't very reliable. Clerics are another deal, if properly used. Even a plain vanilla Cleric outclasses a Barbarian. DUHM, Holy Power, Divine Shield, Holy Word, certain domain spells, Firestorm... Toss in judicious multiclassing, Barbarians are left gaping in the dust. Besides, Clerics can hit skyhigh Concentration, and even use any armor and shield.
    -As I had said, I work on making characters HARD to hit. Speedy Gonzales has a damn higher chance of survival than Terminator, if you get my meaning.
     
  4. Sir Rechet

    Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Veteran

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    On the issue of pre-buffing or not:

    What, exactly, are you going to do with, say, your cleric's 3rd and 4th level spells after the basics (Magic Circle Against Evil, possibly Freedom of Movement and/or Neutralize Poison) have been covered in sufficient quantity? Easy, fill'em up with Prayer and Recitation. With two clerics in a party, that's one round of pre-buffing for decently long* and sizable boost to everyone's combat efficiency.

    * = Usually longer than any single skirmish, excepting odd scenarios like solo character against a horde without using AoE spells.

    Edit: If you deem your time *actually playing non-interrupted* is worth more than your time spent pre-buffing, that's your choice. But that's hardly relevant in terms of what's more effective -- you're just brute-forcing it. And to me that's like bying a Ferrari to only ever drive it within city limits, never exceeding the 50 km/h speed limit. :p
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2008
  5. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    I used Rage more in the HoF game, when it became Tireless. It's a 5 round STR & CON boost, but insta-casting makes it completely reliable.
    A lot of the spells you named have a short duration, like DUHM's 10 rounds. Sure it's a good spell, but when you've used it, it's gone till you rest again. I find the challenge of progressing through the game as far as possible before resting is a measure of the parties' efficiency. I can go through dozens of battles before resting. I choose to save some of my buffs even in medium battles.
    Clerics can cast in combat, but for HoF mode melee-casting becomes more risky. Another reason a barbarian's passive bonuses are valuable:). In melee, I observe carefully which cleric is being targeted and damaged before trying anything. The first casting, when enemies are still advancing, is most reliable.
    Stoneskin can be cast during combat if there is the opportunity, by the way stoneskin is superceded by items that give damage reduction, like 10/+2. If you wear such an item, your stoneskin is useless:(. During combat I almost only cast spells that affect enemies. Battleclerics are too busy in melee, summoning or casting Heal to waste time on buff spells.
    Of course the cleric's spells make her the best melee character, but my fighter4/barbX backed up by 2 battleclerics is the sturdiest character I can imagine. Unkillable unless you're careless (if clerics can't get to him or wait too long before Heal-ing). Speedy Gonzales strategy can fail due to spell failiure or low hitpoints, especially in HoF, so needs Power Word: Reload often:D.

    Recitation is really good, I use them up quickly. I rarely use Prayer in favour of Animate Dead. Cars aren't my thing, so I don't get the analogy. But if you mean that barbarians are exaggerated hack-n-slash characters with no tactical depth, then I disagree. My one casts spells from items, and can still BE buffed by other characters. It's brilliant when enemies get distracted by him, then my clerics can fall back to heal up or cast spells in peace. He has SO MANY hit points, I get a great deal out of every Heal I cast on him:love:. Barbarians aren't suitable for a 4 member party, but they're a joker in the pack for a team of 6.
    As for brute-forcing it: Well I'm a powergamer, melee warriors should fight well, not risk death within a few rounds. By my calculations, at level 40 with mod items, he has the potential to have 1400+ hitpoints, but still only 18STR. Not brute force, more like a titanic battle. Nothing better to give my spellcasters time to cast their spells:D!
     
  6. AjaX Gems: 4/31
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    -I had a character once with 8 CON, and a large number of Illusionist levels (27, in fact). Never once did he die. Nothing could touch him, and I mean NOTHING. Why? SR, Evasion, and plenty of self-buffing like Mirror Images, Blur, and Tenser's. He alone was a nightmare for the enemy. You forget, if nothing touches Speedy Gonzales, hit points matter very little. And if nothing touches him, then there's no danger of spell failure.
    -DUHM is a level 2 spell. The only other level 2 spells you might ever need are Bull's Strength and Aid, and not many of those either. Why not llevel 2 with DUHM?
    -Ah, the resting thing is another matter. I never care how much or how little I rest. I think on an average I finish the game in 90+ (game) days. In HoF, even with all the buffs on, you can go from battle to battle for quite a bit before it becomes risky, simply because of higher levelled chars making buffs last longer.
    -My battleclerics (when I have them) usually just chop around in melee. Summoning I rarely do, and usually its before going in (to benefit them from mass haste). Heals are hardly ever needed. Most of the time, they're on DUHM+Holy Power slaughtering enemies. A bit of time taken for the on-the-job buffing is no big deal.
     
  7. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    I have a similar Illusionist, but I don't buff him up as carefully as you do. Don't you get to a point where you need to rest, but haven't killed everything on the map? I don't like to risk the chance of being surprised by enemies while attempting to rest. Speedy wouldn't stand a chance with no buffs. If I had to travel backward 8 hours to rest in a previous map, I'd consider that a defeat.

    I said DUHM is a great spell, though when I have Bull's/Champion's Strength and Cat's Grace, it's mainly a CON booster. Due to the short duration I'd want to cast it right before engaging in melee, so it requires good timing. Because I insist on getting the most out of my spells, I'd also cast Holy Power beforehand and concentrate on melee as much as possible.
    Nothing in the game says you must finish it quickly. But it does fit with the storyline if you rush to defeat the legion before they consolidate their power. And I get the feeling I'm testing my parties' limits if they're take damage while I make them run the gauntlet. I was disappointed that I had to rest twice in the Severed Hand, HoF. But the end battle did need a whole different selection of spells than I normally travel with: Less summoning and much less evocation, more high level buffs I rarely use like Holy Aura, Aura of Vitality, Champion's Strength (I use lvl2 Bull's Str. mostly and Iron Skins at lvl5), I wasn't even fond of Mass Heal (but Tactics4IWD2 makes it necessary as a buff to restore the near dead summons you create), Mass Invisibility, SevenEyes, Aegis. Executioner's Eyes was what carried my party through the end battle, it was on most of the time, I must've cast about 8.

    Battleclerics take damage. There are few immunities in IWD2 spellcasting, unlike BG2. In HoF especially, it's unavoidable that your frontliners take damage, the best prebuffing scheme in the world wouldn't make you kill them all quick enough. I respect your tactics avoiding summons, I think they make it a bit too easy anyway. I mostly do it when I enter a large map, and then I cast 6 at once to get the most out of buff spells. But your rarely needing Heal is hard to believe, are you talking HoF? So when you rest you still have Heal spells left? What buffing scheme do you use to make a battlecleric unhittable?
    Before resting I cast any Mind Blank left on my weakest willed characters. After resting my party has Iron or Stoneskin, Bless, Barkskin, Cat's Grace, Bull's Strength, Magic Circle Against Evil as staple. Barkskin castings are limited, so wear off later in game. Other skins get used up too. I have enough for a second party casting of Bull's and Cat's, when the second casting wears off, I need to consider resting.
    For a decent battle I summon, Bless, Mass Haste, Champion's Strength one or two, Invisibility Sphere sometimes, Protect from Missiles sometimes, Holy Power (combined with DUHM later) mostly with my non-bard battlecleric, Recitation, Mirror Image & Blur. Sometimes the bard5/clericX Chants, but only when I plan to sing in the beginning. Executioner's Eyes and DUHM when first engaging the enemy, and a well placed Wail o/t Banshee and/or Earthquake allows me to quickly progress to the next group.
    Higher level buffs I may have 1 casting of, but I save these for the biggest battles.
    Anything you think I could improve? maybe I should start using Tenser's, but it's my frontliners that are taking damage.
     
  8. AjaX Gems: 4/31
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    -Actually, my battlecleric was a DG Dreadmaster 28 / Monk 1 /Rogue 1. You would not believe the multiclass penalty after Chp 4 HoF (when I took the rogue level), but it was worth it. The only time melee got dangerous for him was when I started facing mass Slayer Knights in Severed Hand HoF. All else he could take on easily. He had a lot of the generic bonus items, WIS boosters, DUHM, Divine Shell, and all the arcane based buffs. I think I hit maybe AC 68 with him (with War Chant of Sith). Lately I had used a female Drow, with Monk 1 /Rogue 1/Ranger 1 to dual wield. She was pretty impressive too, though her low CON and avg STR were an issue (had to get 13 INT). Still, she became a slicing machine with the proper buffs, the only one of that party to go proper toe-to-toe (1 was a pure decoy, the illusionist, and another was built around Big Death). Wish I had gotten the upgraded Bastard Swords before i played her.
    -I buffed the illusionist like hell. And actually, there are times when I've not cleared the map but have to rest. That isn't a big deal. Quicksave, and rest. In case monsters come, either kill them or quickload. Hardly a bother.
    -You don't use Champion's Strength regularly!? o_O Hell man, that thing is staple for warriors. 10 mins/level is pretty good, considering 5th level doesn't have much great stuff (Flame Strike sucks, though Chaotic Commands isnt bad). Use Champions Strength as much as you can, its damn good.
    -Tenser's is good only on a melee unit. I don't think it'd be worth it for a pure caster to use it. But on a melee unit, its a godsend.
    -Aegis isn't really impressive. Seven Eyes is wonderful, use it whenever you can. Aura of Vitality is good to keep up, as is Holy Aura. At later levels, they do last a decent while.
    -Prayer and Recitation are incredibly effective when cast in the middle of enemies (assuming you can pull it off). The penalties are cumulative. Prayer+recitation+DBFB is a great recipe for monsters served extra crispy.
    -Barkskin is a very powerful defensive spell. Use it on all your frontliners if you can, you won't regret it. On Druids, I don't take ANY other 2nd level spell.
    -Chant is kinda sucky with only +1/-1, character moving at half-speed and no casting. What you SHOULD do is:
    -Use Emotion: Hope. ALWAYS. That +2 to everything is mighty impressive, considering the staple 50 rounds duration. That means any arcane caster can cast it for exactly the same duration. This is particularly good, especially for your playstyle, since 4th level spells like Malison and Hope don't depend on caster levels at all. And I believe there's a Bardic item that has a number of castings of Emotion: Hope. Lyre of Progression its called, unless I'm mistaken.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2008
  9. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    I always forget to memorize Emotion:Hope:( I keep forgetting it.
    Chant is OK only for my bard5/clericX if she plans to sing for the next 10 rounds. Being half speed doesn't matter much if she's not casting/fighting. a handy situation:D
    Animate dead takes prededence over prayer IMHO, though I keep one memorized in the Tempus domain slot.
    Champion's Strength will be much better for you than me, since I progress longer before resting. If necessary I have the tempus cleric's item from HoF, and a Tempus domain slot for it. Bull's Strength is the way to go for me, so I make use of level 2 spell slots. And I disagree that there are no good spells on level 5: what about Iron Skins?
    The Drow character sounds neat, it's worth a try. With custom dll you can give her the Chain of Drakkas (=robe) and she can still dual wield. But the gnome with the big XP penalty at the end is a ruined character.
    I'm assuming you won't be using the level 40 patcher and extended tables?
     
  10. AjaX Gems: 4/31
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    -I prefer Stoneskin to Ironskins, usually.
    -Well, the robe thing sounds too much of a cheat to me (considering the no. of good robes available), but she's good even without it. The Gnome isn't a ruined character, he's just hard to play. You won't get level 30 on him for sure, but I'm pretty sure I hit Cleric lvl 24 or 25. And no, I don't use level 40 patcher yet.
     
  11. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    The Chain of Drakkas is an unusual item, since you can cast spells in it. I talked to Mindchild once about it (it's his fix that makes it usable by monks) and he made a good point: If it doesn't hamper spellcasters like medium armour normally would, then it makes sense that it doesn't hamper rangers in dual wielding, or monks in getting their WIS AC bonus.
    I understand that Stoneskins are more useful to cast in combat and can be cast on others, so that's why you prefer it over Iron skins. But the skins are both valuable, you should have both memorized. Even if it's only to pre-buff your clerics before combat, so when the Ironskins run out you cast Stoneskin on them, it's still an extra casting of skins. Both skins are valuable because they run out quickly and save you loads of damage. In combat it's my clerics that take most of the damage anyway.
    As for the gnome, maybe he's not bad as a pure battlecleric, but I disapprove of the wasteful mix-ins. 80% XP penalty is the game telling you that this build is practically illegal.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2008
  12. Odd Hermit Gems: 1/31
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    So far I've got -

    Chaotic Good Tiefling Male Rogue

    (Bard 5, Fighter 4 or 5, Rogue X)
    Str 12
    Dex 20
    Con 10
    Int 16
    Wis 8
    Cha 12

    Feats - Weapon Focus Bow (Or is a different ranged weapon choice better?)

    Skills -
    Bluff
    Diplomacy
    Disable Device
    Hide
    Move Silently
    Open Locks
    Search
    (Is alchemy worth spending 8 in for envenom?)


    Lawful Good Drow Female Monk
    (Paladin(Ilmater)1/ Monk(Ilmater)1/ Fighter2/ Cleric(Ilmater)26)
    Str 12
    Dex 20
    Con 8
    Int 12
    Wis 18
    Cha 10

    Feats - Dodge

    Skills-
    Concentrate
    Hide
    Move Silently

    True Neutral Female Half-Elf Druid
    (Barbarian 3/ Fighter 4/ Druid X)
    Str 12
    Dex 16
    Con 10
    Int 10
    Wis 18
    Cha 10

    Feats - Combat Casting
    Skills -
    Animal Empathy (Or should I get wilderness lore instead?)
    Concentration

    True Neutral Male Drow Sorcerer
    (Sorcerer X)
    Str 8
    Dex 20
    Con 8
    Int 16
    Wis 8
    Cha 20

    Feats - Combat Casting

    Skills -
    Alchemy (Worth it?)
    Concentration
    Knowledge(Arcana)(Just use identify instead?)
    Spellcraft (Better than alchemy?)

    I may move some attrobute points around if some of the skills aren't worth taking since a few of my characters have higher int than they probably need.
     
  13. AjaX Gems: 4/31
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    #1. 'Tis fine. I'd suggest weapon finesse and focus in Small Blades, as Expertise does not apply if you're using a ranged weapon. And Expertise's AC value comes in handy in many fights.
    #2. A melee character with 12 STR? Just seems a little wierd to me. Sure it can be pumped with Champion's Strength and Paladin quest bonus, but still...
    #3. Same as above. Call me a powergaming fanatic, but those pts in INT and CHA could be better used elsewhere, namely in STR and CON. Still, your choice. Don't take Animal Empathy, its pointless. Wilderness lore is good, especially in Fellwood.
    #4. Up the WIS. You don't wanna lose him to Enchantment spells. Alchemy is worth it to identify potions, Spellcraft at least 10 pts are needed (for the Spell enhancement feats), and Knowledge Arcana is good, since you'll get more unidentified items than Identify spells later.
     
  14. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    1. If you use other ranged weapons than crossbows than take rapid shot when you start as rogue. The second feat should be lingering song, it's extremely powerful.
    Afterwards you can think about taking weapon specialisation or dodge. I'd avoid weapon finesse. A little to hit bonus with weapons which do hardly any damage isn't worth it, better use proper weapons.
    You don't need many skill points in hide, move silently or open locks, other skills don't have to be perfect either, so I'd only take 14 int and raise con or str instead.
    I'd spend the 8 points in alchemy (it doesn't hurt if someone can identify potions), but only when leveling up as bard since it's a class skill for them.

    2. 8 int should be enough. With 20 dex you should already have a 75 percent stealth success chance even without spending skill points or the cat's grace spell, so you only need concentration. Don't ever take fighter levels.

    3. The only benefit you get from the fighter or barbarian levels that matters is the better ranged weapon choice. Take the fighter/barbarian levels as late as possible, I recommend never.

    As for skills I'd pump up concentration and raise spellcraft to 10 so you can take scion of storms feat. Spend the remaining points for roleplaying.
    Combat casting only grants +4 to concentration skill, most likely this feat will never make a difference. Better take GSF transmutation, rapid shot and dodge.


    4) 8 in the useless wis stat is more than enough. 14 int more than sufficient. The bard can handle alchemy. You need some spellcraft for the elemental feats. Knowledge arcana is nice but you don't have to spend a point for it at every level. I'd even take 12 int, maximize concentration all the time and put 3 points into knowledge at the start, raise spellcraft to 9 afterwards and take some knowledge again when you've enough spellcraft for the elemental feats.
     
  15. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    12STR & 10CON

    All your chars have 12- STR and 10- CON. You're going to have a real challenge staying alive, and fighting in general. Maybe if you added 2 decent characters on the frontlines, you could afford these wusses in the back.

    I found this useful info for your rogue character. The spoiler is related to skill checks in the game, but it is major in this respect:
    The above might not apply for Heart of Fury, though. Some characters appear to be un-pickpocketable.
    Seriously, 12STR? You really need more strength for a frontliner. Do you plan to use summons as frontliners or something? Go for alchemy, the bard levels is a good tip, and if you install the newest customdll you have more leeway in applying skills, as you can delay till you take a level in another class.
    If you read the above spoiler, it should be claear that after a certain point you should advance in search and detect mainly. Also, I believe that higher Move Silenty and Hide allows you to evade detection for longer, and from larger groups.
    Also, being roughly 10 levels behind in rogue, makes the backstab damage nothing to write home about. Dropping the 4 fighter levels will make your character less of a warrior, but better at backstabbing.

    12STR?! Why maxed DEX and poor STR? It's true that clerics have a bad reflex save progression, so a bit of DEX helps that, and her AC. But with 18STR to start you can boost it to 26 with buffs later. And her spell resistance compensates for the poor reflexes. Now she'll never get above 20STR. A bit dumber and less charismatic, would make her a better fighter. Skim off as much as you can tolerate, roleplaying wise.
    8CON: Viconia:D, so you liked how she got easily killed due to low HP?

    You should really drop the CHA. 12STR again? I thought you wanted this one to be a melee type? If you insist on getting a 10INT half-elf instead of a human, get 10 spellcraft for elemental feats, then go for wilderness lore. IMHO even the non-class feats hide and move silently are more useful than empathy or lore.
    BTW if your lore fails in an area you can click it again, even when paused, infinitely till you get it. You don't even need a single point in it: your WIS modifier applies already.
    Not to mention the 7 warrior levels putting your druid's advancement far too much behind... A single ranger level gives you nearly all weapon feats, the high level shapeshifts do much more for your combat skills.
    10CON: shapeshifted it doesn't matter, but why make it so difficult for him/her?

    Alchemy: Unless you have the tweak "Gems and Potions require identification" (I do), this one is pretty useless. There are two quests involving it, but it's not critical for those either. Arcana's best feature is the better chance to learn spells from scrolls, which doesn't apply to your sorcerer. Spellcraft is nice if you like to know what enemies are casting.
    8CON: some people do this to their spellcaster, but you know you're making a very sickly character, right? He'll get 3HP/level.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2008
  16. Odd Hermit Gems: 1/31
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    Yeah I suppose I should have some more muscle in there, I'm so used to BG2 in which strength increasing items/spells are all over the place.
    I gave most of my characters high dex, which IMO is usually better than high constitution. I guess I could spare some points for a bit more HP for a few of them though. The cleric has max dex because she'll be my tank, but won't wear armor. I don't care if she does much damage, I just want her to take very little since ideally all enemies will be attacking her and/or summons. The druid/barb will provide enough damage as my main melee DPS I hope(I gave her more strength now). If I'm wrong please correct me though!
    And I think I got the skills all figured out now. Feats I'm a bit unsure about.

    Chaotic Good Tiefling Male Rogue
    (Bard 5, Fighter 4 or 5, Rogue X)
    Str 12
    Dex 20
    Con 10
    Int 16
    Wis 8
    Cha 12
    (Stack dexterity with later points)

    Feats - Weapon Focus Small Blade
    (Later weapon finesse, two weapon fighting/ambidex, lingering song, dirty fighting, hamstring, arterial strike, improved critical, envenom weapon...)

    Skills -
    Bluff
    Diplomacy
    Disable Device
    Hide (3)
    Move Silently (3)
    Open Locks
    Search
    Alchemy (2) (stop @ 8)


    Lawful Good Drow Female Monk
    (Paladin(Ilmater)1/ Monk(Ilmater)1/ Fighter2/ Cleric(Ilmater)26)
    Str 16
    Dex 16
    Con 14
    Int 10
    Wis 18
    Cha 8
    (Stack wisdom with later points)

    Feats - Dodge
    (Later 2 weapon specializations, maximize attacks, improved critical, cleave, spell focus in something, spell penetration...)

    Skills-
    Concentrate
    Hide (1/2)
    Move Silently (1/2)

    True Neutral Female Half-Elf Druid
    (Barbarian 3/ Fighter 4/ Druid X)
    Str 16
    Dex 14
    Con 8
    Int 10
    Wis 16
    Cha 8
    (Take wis up to 19, the rest strength[or maybe take 1 wis and trade 1 dex for 2 wis? heard you could do this somewhere in the game])

    Feats - Combat Casting
    (Later 2 weapon specializations, maximize attacks, power attack, cleave, dirty fighting, improved critical, maybe scion of storms and spell focus/penetration...)
    Skills -
    Concentration
    Spellcraft

    True Neutral Male Drow Sorcerer
    (Sorcerer X)
    Str 8
    Dex 18
    Con 10
    Int 16
    Wis 10
    Cha 20
    (Stack charisma with later points)

    Feats - Combat Casting
    (Later spell penetration, spell focuses, dash maybe... I dunno)

    Skills -
    Concentration
    Knowledge(Arcana)
    Spellcraft
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2008
  17. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    The 12 wis are totally wasted with your sorc. At most 1 of 10 will saves will be affected by the bonus you get from having 12 instead of 8 and this character will have to make less than 5 during the whole game.
    Very few enemies cast spells requiring a will save, they target frontline fighters not background casters, they hardly ever will surpass the drow spell resistance and even if this happens the save chance will already be perfect without.
    If you start with 4 less stat points you will most likely experience no difference.
    For this character an iron will feat has the same effect as 4 extra wis, but I wouldn't even waste a feat for this.


    Since IWD2 is no easy children's game like BG2 I strongly recommend analyzing how different the 3e rules are from the 2e rules, especially in terms of level progression. On the long run you don't level faster with smaller parties, adding just 1 fighter level in IWD2 to the druid will slow him down as much as 9 fighter levels in BG2, but you don't even get half the benefit you get for a single fighter level in BG2.
    You'll also be surprised if you compare the damage output of 2-handed weapons with the output of other weapon styles.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2008
  18. Odd Hermit Gems: 1/31
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    I bumped the sorc's wis up because AjaX suggested it, but maybe only bumping it up to 10 is needed(I edited to move 2 from wis to dex now).

    I've beaten IWD 2 before, it's just been awhile. I used to be on black isle as Nevryndar and I think I was mentioned in the old UPP. I have a decent knowledge of 3E rules(though I forget some details), I just don't remember IWD 2's gameplay so well.

    I think you'd agree, despite both being 3E, NWN is a much different game than IWD 2. It depends on just how much, and which things, they implement from the PnP rules. As well as what the enemies chosen are, and what items are available. Although knowing the difference between 2E and 3E is still important.

    I bumped the sorc's wis up because AjaX suggested it, but maybe only bumping it up to 10 is needed.
     
  19. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    The optimal wis stat for a drow sorc isn't 10, it's 3.
    But since you've beaten the game before, you should have the skill to finish anyway, a weaker party which could make beginners desperate might even offer a beneficial additional challenge for a veteran like you.
    Don't bother too much about 2 more or less in a stat, just have fun.
     
  20. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    I tried NWN once, but was put off by the first-person-shooter perspective. I don't like stumbling through hallways, bird's eye view is how I like to play.
    Also, there were vague min-maxing restrictions like "this character is too stupid to pick up a sword", and if you have a very high stat, it costs you proportionally more to increase. It all limits the powergaming options, so it didn't appeal to me atall.

    2 points in dexterity gives you +1 armour class and +1 reflex s.t.
    2 points in constitution gives +1 HP/level , +1 fortitude s.t. and +1 concentration
    IMHO CON is better than DEX, because there are many other ways of taking damage than melee and reflex damage spells. DEX doesn't offer any protection against these, while the hitpoints from CON are like extra life force. Also, there are loads of items which help you boost your AC and s.t., but precious few ways to get more hit points.

    I agree that will saves aren't worth spending too many points on, and you really should take STR and CON more seriously. I understand that you have strict roleplaying conditions, but it's not too hard to imagine an adventuring party with healthy constitution (14CON, come on;)). And what good is your fighter/thief frontliner if he can't even armwrestle a hobgoblin?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2008
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