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MotB - bard and dragon disciple

Discussion in 'Neverwinter Nights 2' started by Cecily Griselda, Jun 1, 2017.

  1. Cecily Griselda Gems: 3/31
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    Playing the Motb with a bard now. I forgot about Hymn of requiem and I'm currently bard 18/rdd1.
    Could you suggest optimal build for bard/rdd?

    Poslano sa mog 5010X koristeći Tapatalk
     
  2. claudius Gems: 3/31
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  3. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    In all fairness, I think RDD is over-hyped. Yes, it provides some cool bonuses. Problem is, those cool bonuses don't meld very well with either Bard or Sorcerer.

    Just giving my honest opinion.

    The way to get the most out of the Bard is to optimize his use of spells and songs.

    Amongst the prestige classes, Shadow Dancer is a really awesome fit with the Bard, because Hide in Plain Sight allows the Bard to use so many of his abilities in stealth mode right in the thick of things without ever getting revealed, and let his buffed-up allies take care of the rest.
     
  4. claudius Gems: 3/31
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    Usual RDD breakpoints are 2 (2 strength to help qualify for epic divine might)*, 4, and 10

    * particularly on a cleric with Divine Powers so the lost RDD AB doesn't matter
     
  5. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Bards are generally better off pure or with "dip" levels in cleric, shadow dancer and fighter, but depending on the setting you can try more exotic combinations. MotB, in particular, gives you epic crafting so Bard/RDD works.

    Standard Bard/RDD is 20/10, you can't really go wrong there since you'll have enough strength/buffs/magic to remain relevant in MotB. Feel free to pick any feat you want, just remember that your main advantage at this point is your high STR so you'll want to exploit that as much as possible (two-handed weapons, "mighty" bows, etc).
    Assuming you picked human/half-elf, you can stop at bard 18 and use those extra 2 levels for dipping in fighter or cleric (for things like weapon proficiencies, cleric-only feats and other goodies). If not you might as well go standard since getting those fighter/cleric levels last (unless you don't mind an XP penalty) cheapens their effect thanks to end game MotB crafting.

    As pointed out above, level 2 is a good stopping point if you're not sold on the RP aspect of the RDD. Stopping at 2 will actually give you a chance to get Hymn of Requiem (requires 27 levels of bard) + 1 extra level in anything. Ultimately you're still just a bard.
    I don't really see a point in stopping at RDD 4 in MotB, TBH.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2017
  6. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Hymn of Requiem requires Bard 21, perform 30, and Song of Requiem, which in turn requires Bard 21 and perform 24. The 30 perform requirement means that you can't get it before character level 27, but doesn't require Bard lvl 27.

    But as Beren said, RDD is not really a good match for either Bard or Sorcerer. It matches better to the classic F (x) / B(1) / RDD (10), which can make much better use of the huge STR boost. Or with Paladin levels if you want to go for Epic Divine Might, as it greatly relaxes the strain on you stat distribution due to the extra STR from RDD.

    Adding two paladin levels to a bard is a better match to the bard, as it'll let you get bonuses to your saving throws based on your CHA (which should be high for a bard). Other options could be shadow dancer if you want to go the stealthy way, or maybe eldritch knight for some extra martial prowess.
     
  7. claudius Gems: 3/31
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    Oh and for bards there are different bard breakpoints. I had already given RDD breakpoints.

    Bard can be 1-8 particularly 1 and 4 (heroism) and 8 (some more casting and courage song +2 now)...

    Bards should not be 9 to I think 14 because their curse song is not great yet and the casting improvement while good still usually you can use those levels for something else OR more likely take a little more bard to get heroism song, better curse song, greater heroism spell, and maybe Legionaire's March.

    Bards can be 15 to 18 to get those I said above (more casting including greater heroism spell, good curse song now and maybe heroism and legionnaire's song)

    Bards should not be 19 or 20 because they don't get much more and don't get the EXTREMELY powerful Hymns..

    Bard can be 21 but it will have to take the Song of Requiem and the Hymn of requiem at levels 27 and 29 at the latest. And need to have Bard 21 by level 27. This means it cannot 'top off' perform as much which makes the requiem and curse song more powerful.

    Bards can then be 23 is a good break point to 'top off' and get another epic bonus feat for bard 23

    Bards can be 26 to keep improving it's inspirations and get two epic bonus feats. Also can get caster level 30 with practiced caster.

    Bard 30 is even powerful but there is missed opportunity from not taking a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th class.
     
  8. pplr Gems: 18/31
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    Beren, you just haven't seen my half-orc Sorcerer-Paladin..
     
  9. claudius Gems: 3/31
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    "As pointed out above, level 2 is a good stopping point if you're not sold on the RP aspect of the RDD. Stopping at 2 will actually give you a chance to get Hymn of Requiem (requires 27 levels of bard) + 1 extra level in anything. Ultimately you're still just a bard.
    I don't really see a point in stopping at RDD 4 in MotB, TBH."



    You can get hymn of requiem with 21 levels bard but you can't top off the perform without more levels of bard.
     
  10. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I actually contemplated that kind of build. My recollection when trying to construct it was my conviction that I needed to put in Eldritch Knight to make it work, since Sorcerer levels drag down your BAB.

    But trying to fit in Paladin, Eldritch Knight, Sorcerer, RDD together within 30 levels, when I tried working it out, meant that I lost spell levels as a Sorcerer. And that was tough to swallow, especially when it came to choosing 9th level spells.

    I admit in theory the concept can work, and I'm certainly open to being corrected and rebutted. ;)
     
  11. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Yep, cross-class skills have a cap of about half your level Henkie. Bard levels give you the most convenient way to increase the cap to get 30 for Hymn of Requiem but there alternatives e.g. Harper Scout, Invisible Blade levels.

    I don't think either of these would be very helpful in an RDD build though. And you'll still have to worry about the bard level requirement.

    Edit: Scratch that, just tested it and you can still get Hymn of Requiem with Bard 21 and anything else if you keep raising perform. So in theory Bard/RDD/x/x 21/2/x/x is also an option, as long as you pick classes that allow you to increase perform - unfortunately no other class seems to be able to do this, even Harper Agent and Invisible Blade.
    It seems in NWN2 you can only increase perform with bard levels unless you introduce mods. The skill is greyed out for anything else.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2017
  12. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Ah, right, I was thinking that you could raise it with any other class. Costing two points per skill level (unless you get able learner), but other skills you can raise to full level if you have at least one level of a class that has that skill as a class skill. Yesterday was testing out a F/B/RDD/WM build (unrelated to this question), and with a single Bard level at lvl 2, and nothing but F and WM levels from level 16, I was still able to raise tumble, spellcraft, UMD, and diplomacy to 30-33 (with able learner), even though neither of these classes has any of these skills as a class skill.

    But you're right, perform is a special skill that is locked unless you're leveling up as a bard.
     
  13. SlickRCBD Gems: 23/31
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    OK, it has been a while since I played, but I thought that you could save up your skill points, and thus say get to bard level 18, then take 7 levels of RDD while saving a bunch of skill points, then raise your bard level to 21 and your perform to 30.
    Do I have it backwards and it is NWN1 that lets you do that while limiting you to 5 saved points in NWN2?
    Even then, you could use that strategy by saving up 5 skill points for each level of RDD, then raising bard on the next level up and putting as many points into perform as possible, then saving up again. You don't have to do a 1:1 ratio, just every couple of levels raise that bard level from 18 to 19, then 19 to 20, and finally by level 27 raise it to 21.
     
  14. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    It's a blunder, but the discussion was from the perspective of MotB. There's very little pressure to squeeze as much out of your character as possible in NWN2 (in terms of adding extra elements like thieving/diplomacy/survivability/crafting/etc) because you actually have party mates.
    At the time I just thinking about the most hassle-free transition that allowed you to increase your perform skill gradually.

    You are correct though, it also possible to just save your skill points and distribute your last three bard levels across levels 19-27.
    I still would recommend just leveling bard.
     
  15. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    In NWN it let you save unlimited points, in NWN2 you can save max 5 on a level up. You could therefore save up points while taking two or three RDD levels, then put the points in perform on a bard level up.
     
  16. SlickRCBD Gems: 23/31
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    Thanks for clearing that up. I should have checked myself using cheat codes, but I thought I had it straight in my head. I haven't played either game since 2015 according to the dates on the files in the save game folder.
     

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