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My Comeback Party; comments

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Death Rabbit, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    First time I've played this game in a few years, and nothing to do all weekend. Ready for a run-through, looking for some peanut-gallery comments. Latest version of Co8 installed, 7.5.0.

    Here is the party I'm looking at:

    Paladin 4/Fighter X (Human, Male) LG
    Using 2-handed swords and Glaives. Party spokesman, frontliner.

    Barbarian 2 / Fighter X (Half-orc, Male) CG
    Two-weapons, eventually double Great Cleavers. Hurtin' stuff.

    Cleric of Corellon Lerathean X (Elf, Female) CG
    Domains: War (for Long Sword boost) and Good (for holy enchanting).

    Druid X (Dwarf or Human, Male) TN
    Ranged, offensive caster, backup tank. Done well with druids in the past. Produce Flame spell is useful throughout.

    Rogue 1 / Wizard X (Elf, Male or Female) NG
    Kablooey, and rogue skills. Will use a bow when not magicking. Enchanter.


    If memory serves this should cover all the bases. Lots of good tanking and offensive spells, the right setup for covering all the enchanting bases.

    I hate - HATE - NPCs in this game and their stupid looting behavior, so I won't be picking up any stragglers except briefly for quests.

    I am tempted to switch out the Druid for a ranged Rogue and take advantage of the sneak attacks from a distance.

    Anyway - comments?
     
  2. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Good, standard group. I'd keep the druid, the animal companion is a decent meatshield and you'll need something to bait ogres with. If I had to replace him I'd pick someone who could carry a shield and cast spells, or if you really want an archer I'd pick a rogue/martial class mix instead of a plain rogue. Sneak attacks are nice only when they work.
     
  3. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    NPC looting is not an issue in the modern era with Co8, DR.
     
  4. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Noted. Even still, I prefer rollin' with a 5-made crew.

    So after a late (LATE!) night, I am now in Nulb with this party. Overall it's been great, but man, C08 7.5 must have nerfed the Druid's Produce Flame spell, because it misses almost every time now. I used to consider it a viable combat option to just sit in the back and lob little fire nuggets. So far, the Druid is by far my weakest character, whereas in past playthroughs she was my MVP. Great stats, too. Primarily an archer this time, and since she's not optimized to be an effective archer, she sucks.

    Wishing I had a sorcerer right about now. Or a halfling melee rogue. But I don't want to start over. Maybe I give her a level of fighter just so she's more viable at tanking. We'll see.
     
  5. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    The only things we ever did to Produce Flame were cap the bonus damage and make it so it doesn't work in the Water Temple (per the module).

    Produce Flame is a ranged touch attack, so the user should have the appropriate ranged feats to use it well - Point Blank Shot (+1 on attack and damage rolls) and Precise Shot (bypass standard -4 penalty for firing into melee).
     
  6. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Druids in ToTE should be using longspears imo. Good range, good damage, lots of tactical possibilities (easier charge attacks, single attack then 5-foot step back = attacks of opportunity spam, etc). In ToTE I prefer to play the Druid as a caster who specializes in persistent spell effects (buffs, entangle/spike growth, summons). I only take the strongest nukes and save them for the big fights.

    With a longspear and a good animal companion your druid should be doing very well early game, you don't need fighter levels. Also note that in ToTE druids get penalized for using weapons/armor against their ethos. (so no metal shields/armor - apparently they'd rather wear the skins of their violently slain animal brothers over metal which is essentially just shaped rocks, bones of the earth mother and all that. But I digress)

    I forgot what the penalties were, iirc they lost their druidic abilities and could not regain them until a few hours after you unequipped their gear.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2012
  7. Ishad Nha Gems: 7/31
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    This is my Icewind Dale 2 stock party, it would have to be adapted for TEE, but it is strong on mage magic and it enables open-ended acquisition of rogue skills:
    Aasimar Paladin (Helm)
    Human Cleric (Lathander)
    Human Rogue/Ranger
    Half - Elf Cleric (Selune)
    Moon Elf Wizard
    Wild Elf Sorceror

    Rogue/Ranger alternates between taking levels as a Rogue and as a Ranger. He starts with 14+ Int so he gets the right number of skill points. You could have a Rogue/Barbarian instead, but the skills would suffer.

    Here is one possible TEE line up:
    Human Paladin
    Human Cleric
    Human Rogue/Ranger
    Half - Elf Cleric
    Elf Wizard
    Elf Sorceror

    Race is largely negotiable for each PC. Elves get useful bonus weapon feats, other races would have to take a level in fighter instead.
    Rogue/Ranger could be replaced with an alternating Rogue/Barbarian. Race would be Human, Half-Elf, Halfling or Half-Orc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
  8. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Keep the Druid, they are useful in so many different ways, they are an excellent support character. You have all the other bases covered.

    With theCo8 mod, I tried an 8-man team. 4 Warriors, 2 Healers, 2 Arcane Casters. You don't worry about NPCs AND you could put up a wall of High-Strength Pike/Spear wielders in your front row. Think Braveheart....
     
  9. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    So, question: how do you create a party of more than 5 people with Co8 installed? Perhaps there's a readme out there that me didn't read, but that'd be great for my next go-through (I plan to do another run when I'm done with this one - Christmas break, baby). Then I would really rock an old-school BG-style party, and explore the spiked chain Rogue strategy I've read about.
     
  10. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    That function is gotten to through a drop down menu within the front end - 'change number of PCs' or something like that (don't have it in front of me at the moment).
     
    Death Rabbit likes this.
  11. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Doh! I think I F-ed up. I was supposed to activate the Co8 modpack and play that through the Front-End X right? I had problems running after the install because I didn't run it as administrator and then when I did, I didn't realize the mod pack wasn't activated so played the original unmodded ToEE through it.

    So that means I need to start over right? Not that that's a big deal since I just did noncombat quests in Hommlet so far...

    I hope I can keep the guys I created.

    I've had this game for a year and I'm finally starting it :)

    I made
    Human Paladin
    Dwarf Fighter
    Half-Elf Ranger/Rogue (took Ranger first... maybe should have done Rogue first; hard to say)
    Human Cleric
    Elf Wizard

    Oh, and yeah to change the number of players it's on the options menu of the front end (or F11). I left it at 5 players and 3 NPCs for now.

    I also see that it allows a windowed mode; I was wanting that! Sweet!
     
  12. Ishad Nha Gems: 7/31
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    Rogue first v Ranger/Barbarian first, skill points at 1st level may be one way to make this decision. You start with 8 more points as a Rogue. Presumably you get more use of your initial points as a Rogue because you will be spending a lot of it on Rogue class skills like Disable Device.
     
  13. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Right. I decided to do that when recreating my party last night. :)
     
  14. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    Yeah, you'll definitely need to start over. Your characters might work but I wouldn't recommend trying to transfer them, mainly because Co8 enables some feats that were not active in vanilla to allow leveling up to 20. That could cause levelup problems down the line. Play it safe and have no regrets. :)
     
  15. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Ranger/Rogue (or Rogue/Ranger) question.

    Which side are you guys emphasizing? The Rogue side for the sneak attack damage, or the Ranger side for the free two-weapon or archery feats?

    If the latter - wouldn't it make more sense to make a Human and take your first two levels as Fighter, using those first 4 feats to spec them out? Just curious.
     
  16. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    More skill points from the Ranger helps with your Thieving skills. Human is even better for skill points. Elf or Halfling is better for Dex bonus. I am not a fan of the Half-elf choice other than for RP.

    I prefer to use this build for sniping, not melee.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  17. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I choose a Half-Elf for my Rangers (or Ranger/Rogue) for a few reasons. Favored Class is Any so I don't have to worry about multiclass penalties. Halfling is small; don't like that for a warrior type. Elf favored class is Wizard; useless if I want to have the Rogue/Ranger levels uneven. Half-Elf gets useful race bonuses like resistance to enchantment, immunity to Sleep, low light vision; and skill bonuses to Listen, Search and Spot. I could choose Human, but I like to mix it up a bit and I like the Half-Elf racial bonuses for the Ranger class.

    It's been a while since I've played a 3E game, so I don't remember where I split the Ranger/Rogue levels; it typically depends on what feats I get when and then attack bonus and save bonuses. So I'll usually take enough Rogue levels to get the Rogue feats I like (especially Evasion, Improved Evasion and Sneak Attack).
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  18. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    At least three levels of rogue for Sneak Attack/Evasion, a bit higher (4-5) if you want Uncanny Dodge. Setting up ranged Sneak Attacks is tricky because you need to have an allied NPC/summoned minion flanking your target, so I'd take at least 4-5 levels of ranger/fighter/barbarian for consistency.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  19. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Gah! I just started again last night and realized why I usually take Ranger first: Rogue doesn't have martial weapon proficiency so I've got a -4 penalty on my longbow until level 2! My Wizard shoots better with the longbow! :)

    As an aside: I really like the new starting place added by Co8 where you can kit out your people with equipment other than the standard set. Nice Dwarven Waraxe for my Dwarf Fighter and Scale Mail for everyone but the Wizard and Rogue. Nice! :)
     
  20. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    This is turning into a general Co8 questions thread as well. I like it!

    So, Bard/Rogue builds. Recommended? And which side is more valuable, Bard (for spells and songs) or Rogue (for sneak damage)? Any sample builds or experience?

    Next paragraph is semi-spoilery...avert thine eyes.

    Did the C08 update ever mess with Scather at all? The reason I ask is that it's always referred to as a bastard sword, but I seem to remember that in fact it actually is a two-hander and takes the two-handed sword proficiency. I'm wondering if that was ever remedied either way. I just started a new party with a CG human fighter build, and I'm wondering if I should have even bothered with getting the exotic weapon: bastard sword feat.
     

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