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Party Builds

Discussion in 'Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition' started by Blades of Vanatar, Oct 27, 2014.

  1. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I have always thought IWD should of had the BG2 engine. IWD in BG2 is a decent mod, along with Kuylok's IWD NPCs. With the pending release of IWDEE, the below will be my first party. Themed of course. All elves! It will be a little weak on the Armor side until later in the game, but should pack a big punch. The key will be to stay mobile while simultaneously deliveirng consistant heavy damage.

    Archer - Machine Gunner
    Cleric of Lathander - Destroyer of the Dead
    F/M/T - Scout/Support/Locksmith
    F/M - Ice Spell specialist - 2-hand wielder
    Dragon Disciple - Fire Spell Specialist - Mob Destroyer
    Fighter - Dual Wielding Long Swords
     
  2. Proteus_za

    Proteus_za

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    I'm also very keen for this. I've owned IWD1 for probably over 10 years now, but I've never played it. Tried it, created a party, quit almost instantly. So really looking forward to playing it with the BG2:EE engine, BG2 kits, BG2 spells, BG2 rules.

    I'm not big on themed parties, and I am admittedly a bit of powergamer. That being said, I do want to take some interesting characters along, even if they are not necessarily the most powerful. Plus I want to use some combinations that I have never used before - for instance, dwarves and halflings. I've never used them. I always play with elves and humans. I didn't know that dwarves, gnomes and halflings get bonuses to their saving throws based on their constitution.

    Anyway, so this is what I am thinking at the moment:
    Human Paladin (Undead Hunter)
    Human Fighter 7 -> Cleric X
    Elven Sorcerer (considered but rejected Dragon Disciple. Giving up one spell per day of each level is just too much)
    Dwarven Fighter/Thief (Halfing will be a better thief but Dwarf will be a better fighter)
    Human Cleric 7 -> Mage X (an unusual combination because you don't normally dual FROM a caster class. But I don't like multi class caster classes, I think they lose too much, and I need some extra low level healing magic)
    Elven or Half Elven Fighter/Druid dual wielding scimitars (Druids apparently have some unique dialog, and much better spells than they do in BG2)

    I am thinking about replacing the Cleric 7 -> Mage X. If I do, it might be with a Shadow Dancer 10 -> Fighter X or Shadow Dancer 5 -> Mage. Or however many levels it takes to maximize stealth ability. Shadow Dancer sounds like a very, very cool kit. But it will probably end up being a mage of some variant. Maybe even a Fighter -> Mage?
     
  3. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    They gave us a sneak peek yesterday on beamdog's site. I see they added 2 new Cleric kits, of Tyr and Tempus. I was hoping for more, but I guess they are leaving room for the modders...
     
  4. Proteus_za

    Proteus_za

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    They also gave an interview with RPGWatch in which a lot of additional information was disclosed.

    Link

    Some highlights:
    No HLAs
    No new areas
    New spells created from the original design documents. This implies that IWD:EE has spells that have never been in an IE game.
    Implemented new quests based upon content from the Unfinished Business mod as well as the original design documents.
    Items that were previously included in the game but not found in any random treasure tables (ie not possible for them to drop) have been added to the random treasure tables
    No changes to HOF mode - no new items for it, unlike IWD2
    New items added for the new classes and new weapon proficiencies - for instance, katanas
    Includes some content from IWD Fixpack as well as Item Upgrade
    IWD2 and PST are still being looked into - nothing confirmed.
    IWD:EE has improved pathfinding, which will find its way into BG:EE and BG2:EE in their next patches. BG2:EE 1.3?
     
  5. Ineth

    Ineth Instigator Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    After skimming the manual I came up with this party build:

    [​IMG]

    Reasoning for the class and race choices:

    • Undead Hunter [Paladin]

      Paladins make excellent party leaders. Undead Hunter is a new paladin kit introduced by EE, and even though from its description it doesn't sound too powerful, it sure seems thematically appropriate for the game's story... :)
      Only Humans can be paladins, so that settles the choice of race as well.

    • Berserker [Fighter]

      Weapon grand-mastery is pretty powerful, since the game uses the original BG/IWD rules for that (and not the BG2 rules where grand-mastery was nerfed). Hence it would be a shame if no one in my party could make use of it! So, a Fighter it is.
      Of course he gets to be a Berserker, my favorite fighter kit from BG2. Since he's not supposed to dual-class, might as well make him a Dwarf of Half-Orc to get some useful racial bonues. I personally like dwarves better, so that's what I chose.

    • Dragon Disciple [Sorcerer]

      Every party needs a competent arcane caster. A Wild Mage would have been an excellent choice, but I already played one in BG2 not too long ago so I'm trying a Sorcerer for a change.
      Dragon Disciple (new EE sorcerer kit) sounds pretty cool from the description in the manual. His kit disadvantage (-1 spell per day in each spell level) is pretty severe, and his bonuses might not completely make up for it from a power-gaming perspective, but I'm trying him anyway because it sounds like he'll be fun to play... :)
      Allowed races are Human, Half-Elf, and Elf - I chose the latter for party variety and for the race bonuses.

    • Shadowdancer [Thief]

      Speaking of fun to play, Shadowdancer is a new EE thief kit that sounds very intriguing. From the description alone I can't be sure whether he'll be over-powered or if his special abilities turn out to be cute but useless gimmicks in practice. I guess I'll have to find out! In any case, he should be able to mix things up a little.
      In BG2 I would avoid making a single-class thief character, but in this game they get perks like Evasion (based on D&D 3e), and will hopefully be able to hold their own in combat.
      Dual-classing to Mage or Fighter would be an option, but the attribute requisites might be difficult to accommodate during chargen, and it may limit his usefulness as a backstabber. So I opted single-class.
      Every race is allowed, but I think that Halfling fits well, and that way he'll get some useful race bonuses too.

    • Bard

      Carrying around lots of loot which no one in my party can identify, is not fun. A Bard can not only help with that, but also fills the need for a secondary arcane spellcaster who can memorize spell scrolls (since the sorcerer can't) so they don't go to waste. Not to mention that the bard songs in IWD are really useful, especially at higher levels. And I vaguely remember there are some nice things to pickpocket in Kuldahar... :D
      No kit, because kitted bards only get their kit-specific songs from BG2, and not the cool IWD songs.
      Allowed races are Human and Half-Elf; I chose the latter for the race bonuses and because it fits the portrait I like for her.

    • Fighter/Druid

      For the remaining spot, I pretty much have to take someone who can be the party's healer (until the bard can fill that role at higher levels) and dedicated divine caster (since the paladin gets too few spell slots to fill that role by himself). Also, a third tank would be useful considering the sheer amount of melee combat in this game, and the large number of cool weapons and armor in the game that should be put to good use.
      I considered a Ranger/Cleric multiclass, and from a power-gaming perspective that might have been a better choice as it would have given me access to all divine spells, not just the druidic ones. But a Fighter/Druid felt right for this party, somehow.
      Half-Elf is the only allowed race for this multi-class.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2015
  6. Yoshimo's Heart Gems: 12/31
    Latest gem: Moonstone


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    I wouldn't worry too much about the dragon disciple. Even with the penalty to spells per day (note NOT spells known) you still have as many or more than a specialist wizard which means you are fine and in IWD you may have an advantage since you do not need to find scrolls to get spells.

    As for the power difference between fighter/druids and ranger clerics both are very powerful. The ranger will have better casting though it lacks 7th level spells in vanilla IWD (not sure if that is true still in EE since it uses the BG2 engine. IWD only gave you druid spells for the ranger cleric at levels where you actually gain that level of druid spells as a ranger). The druid is a better eventual tank however. The fighter druid can become a water elemental which combined with the right equipment can be immune to physical attacks for a good portion of a combat and nearly immune for a long time (note this is without iron skins if they exist in this game). Both are useful.
     
  7. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I am currently wading through the Level 3 of Dragon's Eye. My Undead Hunter(not using the party I listed above..) has proven to be invaluable in both the Vale and this level. Easily holds his own against the living as well. The Dragon Disciple is an excellent kit for IWDEE. Fireball lobbing and his garlic breath really kick some arse. I gotta say the Skald is also both a fitting choice for a northern campaign RP-Wise and his song is incredibly useful for this type of game. He has turned my Raging Half-Orc Barbarian into a 2-hand wielding destroyer of worlds.

    IWDEE brings in so many new build options for this game, it really makes it worthwhile.
     
  8. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    YES I AM BACK FOR A 13 YEAR OLD GAME I JUST BOUGHT AGAIN EVEN THOUGH I ALREADY OWN 2 OTHER COPIES OF IT. BECAUSE SHUT UP.

    Hey Blades!

    Can you post the rest of your party? I'm about to start a run-through myself, and with the new kits and XP cap added, I'm wondering if an all single-class party is viable for the first time. I'm looking for idears.

    Also - has anyone test-driven the Dwarven Defender yet? Looks like the uber-tank to me, especially with the d12 HD.
     
    Nifft and The Magpie like this.
  9. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Certainly DR....

    Human Undead hunter, Board and Sword
    Half-Orc Barbarian - 2-Hand Axes/Swords
    Half-Elf Skald - Air Guitarist - Scimiatars, Katanas and Bows
    Elf Dragon Disciple - Flame thrower and lobber
    Human Cleric of Lathander - Controller of the undead masses
    Elf Fighter/Thief - Bows, Long Sowrd, Short Swords ( Probably better off with a Swashy...)

    Dwarf Defender is boss....single classes rule with the addtions of Kits.... Avengers really come into their own..... vanilla Bard gets War Chant of Sith, a.k.a. free healing.
     
  10. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Don't think I could ever roll with a Bard kit, sadly. The loss of the entire songbook – particularly Darth Maul's Macarena – is just too much for me. All those feels, all those heals.

    Here's what I'm considering:

    Half-elf Bard – Spokie, Bows + Katanas
    Human Undead Hunter - Sword + Board
    Half Orc Barbarian - Zweihanders
    Elf Archer - Shooty McShoots
    Dwarf Cleric of Tempus - Flails, Hammers
    Elf Dragon Desciple - Burny McBurnstuff

    Torn here, as I'm not sure how I feel about having only one priest, and can't remember if a Druid is strong enough to be the only divine caster. Usually I play with a Cleric/Ranger and a Fighter/Druid.

    I really want to include an Archer this time out, because I can, and because archery is so powerful in IWD, I want to see what the game would be like to have one player who is an unmitigated god from a distance.
     
  11. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Clerics are buff/debuff/healing+rez while Druids are more nuke/summon/healing/persistent effect spells. In the end it boils down to that, although both are divine casters. This is more of a playstyle/party composition thing since either works.

    One divine caster is definitely not enough to handle all your healing needs in the original IWD. That will change as you gain levels (Darth Maul's Macarena or the druid's level 4 spells) but since you're starting with 6 guys that may take a while. I'd only attempt it if you're still pretty confident about your knowledge of the game.

    I don't think you need the Undead Hunter (your Ranger can just pick an undead racial enemy) and you'll want a thief in there somewhere. Not required, but good utility scouts (preferably with Invisibility/Sanctuary) are extremely useful in IWD. You could wipe out multiple/massive groups easily with some planning, instead of fighting encounters one at a time.

    As for bards IWD doesn't have Lingering Song, at least. Each of the kits still ends up filling a specific niche (Skald = buffer, Jester = offense song, Blade = more killing power). It helps that casting level matters a lot more in the IWD games than in the BG games, so along with other their perks Bards make excellent FMT alternatives.
    Anyway Tymora's Melody is still pretty nasty in IWD, combined with the War Chant vanilla Bards make the best utility characters.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2014
  12. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Finished the Severed Hand. Now taking on HoW. After clearing the Burial Mound, It makes we wonder if some of the kits are worthwhile. I can't imagine a Swashy having a high enough AC, even with buffs, to make it through as a melee character. The lack of good magic Armour for a Thief and their lack of HP makes it tough. I am using a F/T and I am glad I did. I armoured up for the Burial Mound and it paid dividends, giving me 5 melee fighters including my Undead Hunter, Barbarian, Cleric of Lathander and the Skald.
     
  13. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    If EE thieves have Set Traps then Swashbucklers should still have their niche. They'd pretty much be the only characters who can keep all the basic thief skills decently leveled while investing in Set Traps, all the while being competent melee fighters.
     
  14. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    A Swashy's "strength" is melee. Late game melee is tough in IWD for Swashy's as you need to be a buffed tank for the most part. He is a light tank at best. But fun for RP reasons.... I was thinking of ditching the Dragon disciple and going with a pair of Skalds for my party. Late game bonuses from a pair of Skalds would be devastatingly awesome for the other 4 melee fighters.
     
  15. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    He's still a thief though, he will always have an entirely different skill set to fall back on.
    Bard songs of the same type no longer stack in EE, although AFAIK the EE developers at least decided to leave behind the ability of bard images (from Mislead, Simulacrum) to sing.
    Not a bad deal overall, at least at high levels your Skald can now do something else besides just standing there.
     
  16. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Thief skills are limited in IWD. Backstab isn't great as you mainly face mobs. Unless you want to greatly micromanage every battle. To me that gets boring.

    Didn't realize the Skalds weren't stackable.... no biggie, one Skald is buff enough once he/she reaches high levels.:) (I mean "he or she", not "a" he-she bard... trans-testicles(thank you Dice Man!) aren't an option in IWDEE.... can't believe they didn't implement the change...:p)
     
  17. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Limited how? Thieving (utility-wise) basically means scouting, stealing, detecting secret doors, disarming traps, opening locks, and setting traps. In particular BG2 traps are extremely powerful, allowing an undergeared/underleveled party to overpower a group like Mencar Pebblecrusher's (Den of the Seven Vales group). The main disadvantage of Swashbucklers is that they don't get a backstab multiplier, but you already pointed how that's not really an issue in IWD.

    Anyways I don't think Swashbucklers should really be tanking anything, if possible. The kit AC bonuses strike me more as a "better survivability in melee combat" feature instead of a "convert this thief kit into a melee tank" feature. In the end Swashbucklers still only get a d6 HP per level roll.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  18. Proteus_za

    Proteus_za

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    I think what he means is that backstabbing seldom has a major impact in a fight, unlike in BG2, where you could eliminate a powerful mage early. In IWD, it isn't the mages you worry about, it is the powerful melee characters. I suppose with a Shadow Dancer, you could backstab over and over again, maybe switching to a new target each time.

    Shadow Dancer does have some cool abilities that make it fun to play, I must say. I actually don't think I use my Shadow Dancer 10 -> Mage X well enough.

    During the early part of the game when my only divine caster was my Fighter/Druid, I definitely would have liked another divine caster. Now that I have a Fighter dualled to a cleric, and the Fighter/Druid, things are fine.
     
  19. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Obviously. That's why I added this part:

    The point being contested above is whether or not Swashbucklers are a good enough melee class in IWD. He thinks no, I'm pointing out the reasons why I think they are.
     
  20. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I'm finding traps are a much less powerful option in IWDEE. Maybe a Bounty Hunter would be effective, but again, against the many mobs, like backstabbing, not that effective. Trap finding/disabling is really their only needed function. Not all areas need those abilities.

    My point about Swashy's is their bonuses are mainly melee bonuses. You don't want a Swashy as a frontline melee character later in the game, let alone HoW. They'll get chewed apart on Burial island, in the Gloomfrost and at the Melting Ice. I can't imagine an Assassin or Shadow Dancer being very effective either. Maybe the Bounty Hunter. But I think a F/T, M/T or F/M/T are still king of the Rogues in IWDEE.

    My Skald on the other hand with Arcane buffing worked great as a temporary monster draw. My Barbarian and Undead Hunter chewed the hell out of the enemy while they focused on my highly buffed Skald.

    Undead Hunter is King of the Pallys in IWDEE. So many undead in this game, their usefulness is unrivaled in the Pally selection. But a fighter, especially a Berserker, will do just as good against most undead, minus the use of the Pally sword. It's a toss up.....

    I will try an Archer in my next run thru, maybe two of them. Also wanted to try a Monk, but again like a Swashy, I think I will be constantly healing the Monk. Also will go with a Dwarven Defender. With their d12 HP and mega damage resistance, I think they will rule the day in IWDEE. 2 Dw Def, 2 Archers, a Sorcy and a Cler/Thf would probably kick some arse.
     

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