1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Spirit Bar and Time Urgency

Discussion in 'Neverwinter Nights 2' started by Blackthorne TA, Oct 30, 2007.

  1. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    I dunno. I just got the Spirit Bar not too long ago, so I don't have a really good feel for it yet, but at first glance it seems pretty lame.

    When I originally heard the team was going to introduce some form of time urgency to the game, I was hoping for something much different; something more along the lines of: How long you take to do certain quests impacts the outcome and possible future quests.

    For example in the OC the race to save Shandra after her abduction could have had something like that. Maybe you could actually rescue her before they got to that cave complex if you tried hard enough and didn't delay for too long along the way. Or if you took way too long something bad happens and makes the future much more difficult. They certainly made it seem urgent, but we all know you could have gone off and done something else for a while and nothing would have changed.

    This Spirit Bar thingy where as time passes you get weaker and eventually die unless there's some spirits or undead around just seems really weak in comparison to something like that. Not only does it not really matter to the rest of the story, but I presume you don't get rid of it until the end of the game if at all, and so it might put a damper on just plain exploration for exploration's sake.

    I would much rather have certain time critical events happening occasionally that directly impact the plot than to have this grindstone around my neck constantly pulling me down...

    What do you think?
     
  2. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,475
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    538
    Gender:
    Male
    [​IMG] A poll over at NWVault has shown that the majority of the players dislike the spirit bar, though it has a substantial number of fans as well. I haven't played MotB yet, but to me it sounds like something which will annoy me very much, because I like to take a long time with every D&D game. I usually only play them once, so I want to check out every nook and cranny and do every quest in the first go. Being forced to rush through the game is the last thing I want.

    I think I'll make good use of this: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NWN2Scripts.Detail&id=163
     
  3. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, I'm like that too. In fact, I recently found a really nice amulet in an inaccessible place in "normal" Mulsantir that was reachable through a shadow door from "shadow" Mulsantir. I'm guessing I wouldn't have found it after I got the Spirit Bar because I'm thinking I would be doing less wasting time poking around everywhere.

    But again, maybe the Spirit Bar isn't going to be as bad as I think on first blush... We'll see.

    I'll have to see what your link goes to later since those sites are blocked from work ;)
     
  4. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,475
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    538
    Gender:
    Male
    [​IMG] "Spirit Eater cheat

    For those people that absolutely hate the new spirit eater feature, this script is for you.

    Changes the Satiate feat to refill your spirit meter without any penalty. Use once a day, at stage 3 hunger."
     
  5. Master Leo Gems: 7/31
    Latest gem: Tchazar


    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2004
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    2
    spirit meter is an interesting addition to this game, because it affects your character more deeply than before
    if you don't eat souls much, you are supposed to be good
    if you eat too much you are evil

    so now you actually have to adjust your playstyle beyond your current character, because there is another, more primal thing in you, that can kill you

    also btw, if you have trouble finding spirits to eat, note that as you progress, you get more spirit eater abilities (early on you only have suppress and devour spirit, both of which kinda suck)
     
  6. omnigodly Gems: 17/31
    Latest gem: Star Diopside


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Messages:
    944
    Likes Received:
    2
    It is rather lame. The fact that they associate the abilities in black and white as opposed to contextual use makes it even worse. Fortunately, shortly after you get it, it becomes like a bug on the windshield. Doesn't really effect you 'cause keeping it up is so easy (eating undead or suppressing when around lots of spirits) that it's more of an inconvenience than a method of getting you to rush through the game.
     
  7. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2000
    Messages:
    10,140
    Media:
    63
    Likes Received:
    250
    Gender:
    Male
    I also play the games in an exhausting way, trying to find all things in them. That inevitably takes time. So when I first started, and got the spirit bar, my char died over resting after a short while because I didn't use the feats I got properly? Or didn't replenish enough on spirit energy? Whatever. It's an utter nuisance to lose six or so hours of playing time (yes, no saves).

    Restarting now, I think I'll try without, save more, and if I don't like it, I'll cheat. I feel no urge to live up to the game developers expectation of their player.

    PS: An updated version of xUI is out, compatible with MotB 1.10 :) Didn't try it yet, but certainly will. Even after MotB the UI still sucks.
     
  8. Urithrand

    Urithrand Mind turning the light off? ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,358
    Media:
    20
    Likes Received:
    15
    Gender:
    Male
    To be honest it doesn't affect play that much for "good" characters (Although for some RIDICULOUS reason when you use suppress you get points in lawful) when your craving is very low. I found it to be a minor annoyance at best, but I dread to think how it would affect people who play evil and eat every spirit they see :eek:
     
  9. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    I like the idea of the Spirit Bar, and I like the abilities that come with it, but IMO, they shouldn't have made it so crucial (i.e. death if you don't plan right).

    I could see some debilitation like your craving is so acute that you can't concentrate so are more vulnerable is some ways or whatever, but more and more severe debilitation and finally death just seems too extreme.

    I suppose they did that to make the whole thing more important and less open to abuse, but they limited how many times per day they can be used and which abilities can't be used on the same day already.

    At least the place seems filled with spirits and undead.
     
  10. Urithrand

    Urithrand Mind turning the light off? ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,358
    Media:
    20
    Likes Received:
    15
    Gender:
    Male
    I must add that for those who don't want to eat spirits at all, there are very few options. Suppress as I mentioned gives points in lawful, and as my first run-through was a chaotic good warlock, too many points in lawful meant unable to advance! Short of waiting until the final stage and using the XP guzzling satiate, I had no option but to munch away on those poor souls.

    All in all, the spirit bar was really annoying, but it *did* add some sense of urgency to the game that is not often felt in an RPG.
     
  11. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Couldn't you use the Eternal Rest feat to kill any undead instead of Devour Spirit? I did that to one of those Shadow of the Void creatures that came out of the furnace and got a special essence out of it too.
     
  12. omnigodly Gems: 17/31
    Latest gem: Star Diopside


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Messages:
    944
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yes you can. And if you do it while an undead is at "near death" it'll instantly kill the undead and give you tons of HP. Problem is getting your minions to NOT attack the same target as you while you try to do it...
     
  13. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2000
    Messages:
    10,140
    Media:
    63
    Likes Received:
    250
    Gender:
    Male
    ... and add to that that considering the abominable AI this can be quite strenuous an exercise.
     
  14. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    I generally don't have too much trouble with that as long as I uncheck the "Defend Master" part of the AI that's on by default. "Defend Master" causes all kinds of problems with NPCs doing what you tell them.
     
  15. Urithrand

    Urithrand Mind turning the light off? ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,358
    Media:
    20
    Likes Received:
    15
    Gender:
    Male
    Oh yes, I meant earlier on when you start out. Later I used almost exclusively eternal rest, but there's not always undead available. I found using the "hold" voice command during battle avoided precious nasties getting killed before munchies could commence, although it can leave you thinking a few minutes later "Where the eff is my party!?"
     
  16. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, I'm getting a feel for it now and Eternal Rest is the way to go IMO. Suppress is almost useless so far as I can tell because you can only use it once per day and it really doesn't give you that much spirit energy back (I used it after a rest when I knew I was going to be surrounded by spirits and Suppress didn't fill the bar all the way back up), and it prevents you from using Devour Spirit or Eternal Rest for the rest of that day. Very lame.

    Oh, and you can get Eternal Rest as soon as you get the spirit bar (though it's not obvious if you hadn't already gone to where you have to get it).
     
  17. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Just finished Ashenwood, and I have to say the Spirit Bar isn't too bad with a little planning. I was afraid I was going to be in bad shape near the end because there are no undead and I was down to 65. I was able to use Suppress to get back to 80 just before the end and the very end brought me back to 100 with 0 craving. Not too bad.
     
  18. Urithrand

    Urithrand Mind turning the light off? ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,358
    Media:
    20
    Likes Received:
    15
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, certain text options will restore your spirit energy and/or reduce your craving, usually when you are dealing with a very powerful spirit.
     
  19. Merlanni

    Merlanni Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    2,445
    Media:
    23
    Likes Received:
    53
    Gender:
    Male
    I used a cheat to get rid of the meter. My NEUTRAL good character canot level if she gets to lawfull.
     
  20. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Neutral Good would have been fine as long as you didn't use Suppress often (I have only used it twice so far and now that my craving is at 0, I probably won't use it again). You could have used Eternal Rest as often as you wanted and Devour Spirit once a day with out too much trouble.
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.