1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots as well as access many other forum features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a truly friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this excellence is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today and convince yourself!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.

Storm of Zehir party ideas

Discussion in 'Neverwinter Nights 2' started by Cecily Griselda, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. Cecily Griselda Gems: 3/31
    Latest gem: Lynx Eye


    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    70
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2
    I'm looking for nice soz party ideas. I would love to have bard and a thief as companions and I would like to do run without cohorts and with ECL penalties. I would also love to do three od two person party run.
    I just don't know how to mix in bard and thief in the mix.

    What is best companion to bard/thief multiclass?

    I had in mind pure bard human, paladin/cleric aasmiar , and wizard/thief moon elf?
     
  2. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,090
    Media:
    10
    Likes Received:
    102
    Gender:
    Male
    Sounds good. Note that many skills (like Survival, for example) are much more useful in Storm of Zehir. Variety is key, and ideally you should have a 3-4 person party.

    That wizard/thief would make a great arcane trickster. This character is ideal for handling your rogue (open lock/search/disarm traps) needs and overland map (spot/listen/hide/move silently) needs, and it's basically a wizard too. Finally, this character would make a great crafter - it would probably be best to make this guy a generalist mage so you don't miss anything. Make sure his intelligence is as high as you can make it.

    Bards are always good in NWN2, especially ones as close to pure as possible. Make sure to pick skills that complement your wizard/thief/AT like Appraise, Bluff, Diplomacy, etc. With buffs, good armor/shield, decent dex, Improved Expertise and the AC Inspiration bards can become near-unhittable in NWN2, and by switching to a BAB Inspiration/Improved Power Attack/offensive songs/debuffing spells/Taunt they also make dangerous melee fighters.

    Paladin/cleric is decent. Note that clerics are already more of a martial class in NWN2 though (especially with a prestige class like Warpriest) while paladins already have enough cleric in them (good spell progression, excellent feats). It might be best to just stick to cleric as much as possible.

    Ideally you'll want someone with full BAB progression for Legionnaire's march. Ranger might be ideal for your group, potentially giving you an extra ranged attacker. That way your wizard/thief can focus mostly on spellcasting/crafting/rogue skills while your Ranger takes care of hide/move silently/spot/listen/survival. You get a free animal companion out of the deal, too.
    If you plan on sticking to just three people, you might want to make your paladin/cleric a pure paladin. Your bard can just pick mostly healing/support spells and focus on defensive buffs/inspirations.
     
  3. claudius Gems: 3/31
    Latest gem: Lynx Eye


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    1
    A cleric can also at times become full BAB for Legionaire's March with the Divine Power spell.
     
    Cecily Griselda likes this.
  4. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,363
    Media:
    32
    Likes Received:
    127
    Gender:
    Male
    What did you choose in the end, Cecily?

    I recently tried to start SoZ with a dwarven F/DD/WM, but then got hit with the option to create 3 more party members, so now I'm back to the game I had ongoing in the OC. Having to think up builds for so many characters is a bit daunting to me, especially in the 3.5e system.
     
  5. Cecily Griselda Gems: 3/31
    Latest gem: Lynx Eye


    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    70
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2
    It's been a while, but I think I choose bard, wizard/thief and paladin/cleric and gave up after some time.
     
  6. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    3,100
    Media:
    361
    Likes Received:
    121
    Gender:
    Male
  7. Cecily Griselda Gems: 3/31
    Latest gem: Lynx Eye


    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    70
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2
    TBH, my old computer can't run the game anymore, while my new laptop doesn't have the requirements. :(

    Beren, I don't like your party, but it does sound super powerful.
     
  8. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,363
    Media:
    32
    Likes Received:
    127
    Gender:
    Male
    Interesting builds, Beren. The explanations help a lot as well to understand why you've chosen something (or not)

    The Favored Soul / Paladin / Stormlord build is fairly similar to the character I have running through the OC, though that one trades some FS levels and the Divine Champion part for Weapon Master. I'm not sure my build would be stronger or not than yours, the Weapon Specialisation you get at FS lvl 12 would make up for the extra crit range and multiplier, perhaps. But I do have a bit of fondness for the WM class, stemming from the original NWN.

    I may reconsider some feat and skill choices based on your build, though.

    Does the parrying for the swashbuckler build really work that well, though? I thought I read that it doesn't work as it should.

    I was also wondering why one would take only a single cleric level for a warlock build, but I see now that you do that for the extra feats.

    And are ranged weapons really viable in NWN2? They always seemed quite useless in NWN, though I suppose that was in part because it would always be your own character drawing the attention of enemies as the followers did only that: following.

    For a future SoZ run, I was already thinking up some builds (which was always half the fun for me in NWN), and was thinking of a Favored Soul / Bard / RDD / Stormlord, which is probably cheesy as hell, but I couldn't not make a build with two elemental immunities.

    Also a Gray Orc Cleric / Doomguide / Warpriest, possibly sprinkled with maybe 4 levels of figther or divine champion for the extra feats and BAB. Gray Orc is possibly not the 100% best choice for this kind of build for the -2 CHA penalty which hurts the loads of turning you'd get, but I do like the idea of a gray orc with lots of cleric related classes thematically.
     
  9. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    3,100
    Media:
    361
    Likes Received:
    121
    Gender:
    Male
    My Swashbuckler rarely if ever took a scratch. Trust me on that one. ;) The vids in the walkthrough will show him in action.

    Also, ranged weapons are viable in Storm of Zehir once you've built up your trade network to such an extent that you're bringing in more trade bars than you know what to do with. Convert your excess trade bars into gold. Enchant a bow with elemental damage. Enchant all the arrows you want with elemental damage bonuses. Rip your targets to shreds at a distance.
     
  10. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,090
    Media:
    10
    Likes Received:
    102
    Gender:
    Male
    Crafting makes bows really powerful in NWN2. I usually keep Neeshka as a ranged character for most of early-mid game because a holy shortbow (2d6 extra damage against evil creatures) is just nasty on her. You can easily make one or two holy weapons early on depending on loot RNG - several containers can give you diamonds, but you can get at least two guaranteed diamonds as soon as you reach Neverwinter IIRC from merchants.
    I remember you can get a good shortbow (duskwood was it?) from the Smuggler's Warehouse if you side with the guards. Gannayev-of-Dreams from MotB is no slouch either thanks to Owl's Insight + Zen Archery.

    Parrying works well especially against enemies with a low number of very powerful attacks, which seems to be a recurring theme among various big bads in the game. It gets less effective against multiple enemies or enemies with too many attacks, but against those you should be on the offensive anyway (quantity vs quality thing).

    A single cleric level gives you access to two domain bonuses and also opens up the possibility of getting specific feats like Divine Might or Divine Shield, so it's one of the single level favorites along with Shadowdancer (Hide in Plain Sight at first level).
     
  11. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,363
    Media:
    32
    Likes Received:
    127
    Gender:
    Male
    Haven't looked at your vids yet, but does he do much damage when parrying? From what I gather, the counter attack requires a higher roll, and I can imagine that at lower levels you would just stand there, maybe not taking much damage, but not doing much damage either.

    I'm a bit fuzzy still on the crafting mechanic, but it seems to me that none of your party members have any crafting skill. Do you have NPCs that do the crafting, or do you let someone else do that for you?
     
  12. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    3,100
    Media:
    361
    Likes Received:
    121
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes, the Swashbuckler is there to absorb the initial onslaught. That's the whole point behind the build. It's Logan who hits hard from the side.

    Vandala has the crafting feats. Logan has the crafting skills since he's a Fighter.
     
  13. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,090
    Media:
    10
    Likes Received:
    102
    Gender:
    Male
    Crafting in NWN2 covers two distinct activities - basic crafting (eg, using mithral ingots to create a shield or duskwood planks to create a bow) and enchanting (giving that mithral shield a +x property, making that duskwood bow do extra elemental damage).

    To perform basic crafting you need ranks in the appropriate skill (eg. craft alchemy/armor/weapon). To perform enchanting you need the appropriate feats (eg. craft magical arms and armor, craft wand), spells and depending on game rules possibly a few other material components.
     
  14. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,363
    Media:
    32
    Likes Received:
    127
    Gender:
    Male
    I've been playing around with it, and I guess the campaign (at least the OC) is aiming towards crafting, as the enchanted weapons seem quite expensive, and it'd be much cheaper to enchant it yourself. At the cost of having to spend skill points (potentially not a big issue, if your build doesn't need / have many useful skills) you can create the base weapons, but having to spend a feat for enchanting feels a bit cripling.

    By now I think I have enough build ideas that I could make a nice party for SoZ, though I'm still working out the little details of each build, as I need to have it all written down before I start. Too many variables to make a build and to remember it by heart. 2e this is not.

    In reading up (I think I understand a bit better now how the swashie would hold in battle, though just being the dedicated tank and not doing much damage is not something I'd normally build for), I came across something a bit confusing about light blindness:
    It seems to imply that the light blindness / sensitivity is applied when it shouldn't be (at night or indoors), but only to the stat sheet, not in the actual gameplay. So does that mean that these triats don't actually do anything, and that the feat to counter this one is thus also useless?

    Just wondering if I'd need that feat for my gray orc build or not.
     
  15. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,090
    Media:
    10
    Likes Received:
    102
    Gender:
    Male
    Enchanting is definitely worth it especially for classes like the wizard which gains bonus feats. The sheer number of feats may seem overwhelming at first but due to the way the game works, builds tend to gravitate towards certain feats and usually only melee/ranged combat-heavy multi-prestige builds are feat-starved. Which is fine since these builds lack basic enchanting requirements anyway.

    The general consensus is that crafted items can actually be gamebreaking at lower difficulties and in MotB, so you'll need to reign in your inner powergamer there.

    NWN2 follows a different meta compared to BG2. Survivability is much more important in NWN2, for example, because you can always just stick a good weapon or the right spell on a character and they'll be able to kill just about anything in the OC/expansions. A good character with sky-high AC (or good AC plus various other defensive means, like Beren's swashie) and which can switch to an offensive setup when required is much more valuable.
    Combat readiness is also more important in NWN2 because many effects lack reliable counters - there is no complex breach spells versus defensive spells meta in NWN2, for example. Ideally you want your characters to be able to perform their various roles at a moment's notice since if you want to stop a caster from shutting down your characters the best thing you can do it is gang up on that caster ASAP.
    This is one of the reasons why the Frenzied Berserker prestige class is considered very powerful - just activate frenzy->smash things.

    A single AB/saves/skill point is not going to make or break your character in the OC/expansions, and is definitely not worth a feat point on a class that just about specializes in buffs. Also, consider that the feat leads to nowhere (Weapon Focus opens up feats Power Critical or Weapon Specialization for fighters, at least).
    I'd only take the feat for flavor or if I run out of other nice things to get.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
  16. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,363
    Media:
    32
    Likes Received:
    127
    Gender:
    Male
    Thanks for the clarification on crafting, but can you create a party in MotB like you can in SoZ? Otherwise, you'd be hosed for enchanting if you have a non-caster as your PC, it seems to me.

    I haven't gotten far enough yet to get a good idea about what builds will do well in the campaigns, but in general I prefer straight melee builds, just because they require little management. Just point and click, as it were. This worked pretty well in NWN, so I'm expecting they'll do pretty well in NWN2 as well. Can't remember ever needing to worry too much about AC in NWN, though, just getting those belt with various DR was my usual strategy.

    I think I'll take your advice and ignore the light sensitivity feat for now.

    It's interesting that there appear to be quite a few classes that have feats that allow weapon's damage or AC from INT, though none of the classes would normally find INT very useful. Like the Swashbuckler build by Beren, which seems (at least partially) laid out to make optimum use of the INT bonuses (I didn't know Insightful Strike and Combat Insight stacked, that's interesting), though effectively it's only a +3 bonus each time, because the build maximises DEX instead (for two-weapon fighting and parry, I suppose).

    On Beren's Swashie-build, it goes for two-weapon fighting, but at least the precise strike duelist ability doesn't work with anything in the off-hand. This at first led me to believe that none of the duelist abilities worked with anything in the off-hand, but I'm guessing they are only affected by carrying a shield in the off-hand rather than dual wielding?
     
  17. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,090
    Media:
    10
    Likes Received:
    102
    Gender:
    Male
    MotB is a high level campaign though so you'll have a nice selection of high level NPCs to choose from/give crafting feats to. I suppose it's only a real issue if you solo. Safiya, in particular, just about specializes in crafting.

    Beren's swashie is something of a skill monkey turned competent fighter (and vice versa) so INT was always going to be part of the build. Ideally those feats are more useful for wizard/swashbuckler/eldritch knight spellsword variants, but that kind of character has a completely different role.
    While an argument could be made for wizard skill monkey variants, these tend to favor DEX and ranged touch attacks, especially the "Orb of X" spell variants which ignore saves/spell resistance. They also favor being sneaky (eg. Arcane Trickster gets Impromptu Sneak attacks) over being tanky or simply standing out.

    Duelist skills can work with any number of setups, the restrictions vary from skill to skill. Flourish can work with spears, for example.
     
  18. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,363
    Media:
    32
    Likes Received:
    127
    Gender:
    Male
    It does fit the party role quite well, and someone to handle the traps and locks is definitely handy to have around. Going wizard / rogue / arcane trickster would seem like a more logical choice for a skill monkey to me, but I can see how the swashie can easily double as a competent tank, which the wizard / AT would not be able to do so easily.

    It's what makes creating a build in NWN 2 so interesting, I suppose. So many different ways to go about it, each with a different specialism.
     
  19. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    3,100
    Media:
    361
    Likes Received:
    121
    Gender:
    Male
    Actually, everything else being equal, I too prefer an Elven Arcane Trickster / Swashbuckler during the OC and MotB. Here's her development during the OC:

    http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/NWN2/Walkthrough2/characters/valeria.php

    And during MotB:

    http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/NWN2/Walkthrough2/motb/characters/valeria.php

    The reason I go with a Duelist / Swashbuckler during SoZ is that casters with limited spells can struggle during a campaign where your buffs and spells expire after every overland encounter, whereas there's always the opportunity to rest up during OC and MotB.

    In SoZ, I designed as many of my characters as possible to rely on passive resources that don't expire and can be called upon infinitely, without limit. That's also why I rely on a Warlock as the damage caster.
     
    Cecily Griselda likes this.
  20. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,363
    Media:
    32
    Likes Received:
    127
    Gender:
    Male
    A question, @Beren. Is the necromancer specialisation the update that you're talking about in the text? I see necromancer everywhere, but when you explain why you chose your specialisation, you're referring to an illusionist, instead. In the OC part of the guide, at least.

    And another question on your warlock build for SoZ. You choose three feats to raise her DC for her invocations, but does that matter a lot for a warlock? Without having played one, I don't really have a way to tell, except that it seems a lot of feats for a rather small bonus.

    The description for the Imbue Item feat for a warlock says that if you fail once at enchanting an item (failing the DC / UMD check), you can only try do that enchantment again after you level up the next time. Does that come up often? It seems like it would be kind of annoying if you're trying to enchant something and then have to wait x amount of time until you've gained another level before trying again (which only adds +2 to the DC check, if I'm not mistaken, so there's a chance that you'll fail again).
     

Share This Page

Sorcerer's Place is an independent project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of time and money on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!