Templates

Remove all ads!

Lich Edwin will be at the ready.

Only one thing: Skeleton Warrior gets only 28% MR? The summoned ones get about 90%!

Very nice work anyway!!!

 

I see, this topic goes well and fine!

Let me see. I hav here some ideas to the templates, and how to make them balanced. Of course I will send these to Lavir as well, perhaps he can use one of these thoughts.

Now I'll start with the Lich:
-no AC bonus (a Lich is a sucker without its magical defenses);
-with the "no pause between spells" ability the 10. lvl mage spell Improved Alacricity is wasted, no one will choose it, so I think this one is not needed to the abilitis as well;
-the +3 casting speed is OK.;
-the +5 spells/lvl is insane, it should be decreased to 2.;
-the immunities are Ok as well, but immunity to disease should be added;
-the Lich touch shouldn't paralyze a victim permanently, but for 5 rounds perhaps(or less);
-the +15% resistance to all physical attack is correct, but there should be NO bonuses to the THACO! Why?;
-abilities:+2 to INT.,WIS., but -2 to DEX., and -5 to CHA! Man...a Lich is an Undead, and like that not the most beautyful person.;
-allignment change OK.;

Requirements:
-17 CON., or above(because the transformation requires great amount of energy from the body);
-18 INT and WIS (no comment);
-15. lvl. or above(have U seen an 11.lvl Lich???);
-100.000 Gold
-1 Rogue Stone/or Beljuril (for the soul)
-10 Emeralds,10 Saphires and 10 Diamonds (these are the required spell components for the transformation) - I know these gems are a bit much, but think of the new abilities.

Disadvantages:
-can not use weapons;(perhaps staffs)


That is all for the Lich.

Comments?

 

well I think the boni is ok, and they're based upon 3e PHB, not something he's making up, but making

I tihnk collecting all those damn gems would be a pain in arse. Though it needs higher level requirement I think(I know level 11 is stated in the book, but levelup in bg is rather fast happening).

I don't know how the hitdie change is going to work(if it is at all). Else that would be a penalty as well.

I think a high intelligence would be in order though, something like 16-17min.



[This message has been edited by Lokken (edited September 24, 2001).]

 

The next one is the Death Knight.

-again, no AC bounus, try to be balanced;
-+1 to STR., +1 to CON., but again, -3 to CHA.(Undead)
now, the abilites of the Death Knight are not very good I think. There are much more suitable (innate) abilities, that a DK should recieve, for example:
-Larloch's Minor drain for every 4. level(starting with 1 at level 9);
-Ghoul touch for every 5. level(starting at level 9);
-Vampiric touch for every 6. level(--II--)
-Horror at 12. level;
-Contagion at 15.level;
-Animate Dead at 17.level;
-Level drain at 20.level;
Death Knights should be also immune to Hold;
-Change allignment to Lawful evil;
Requirements:

-65.000 gold;
-The character must be a Fallen Paladin;
-Level 9 or above;
-16 STR, 15 DEX, 17 CON, 16 WIS;
-Amd perhaps: the character should obtain the Cup of Anarg(Fallen paladin quest) - this could be the required as the "channel of the transformation";

Disadvantages:
-Can not use Carsomyr;
-Lose Turn Undead;
-Lose Lay on Hands;
-Lose priest spells;

-About the gems at the Lich: they really ARE a pain in the arse, but this makes that template balanced. U cannot collect those gems in the first chapters, so U work for the prize


[This message has been edited by TGM (edited September 24, 2001).]

 

Dear Forum,

Thx to all that have replied and given advice to how to better balance the templates.

One thing to note is that Black Isle has changed the rules in a strange manner sometimes. For example the Skeleton Warrior has in the game 90% of magic resistance (as noted before in this thread), however the real rules give to the creature much less, 28% as in the templates. The same apply for the Lich and other creatures as well.

The templates I've created to add are strictly taken from the 3D&D edition rules. Maybe some modifications since BGII stray from the rules are needed, but let's see what has been noted and comment it.

The no-casting speed and improved alacrity: yes, I know that exists the tenth level spell, but a Lich is a powerful spellcaster and not a normal wanna-be wizard that must employ some spell to become powerful. There is no need for a Lich to use a power-up in spellcasting speed. Look at the Robe of Vecna. And then, let's be straight: how for example it is possible in the game to have a spell trigger fired with absolute immunity and spell trap when the maximum spells memorized in a trigger are eighth level? So, I know that the requirements are a bit low and on this I'm working, but a Lich is not a simple caster, it is a powerful being, the image of what a mage should be, and I want to make the template in a way that it will become very difficult to obtain, but when you apply it you will be grateful to yourself to have done it, and really be proud to have going to all the fuss to have it. Then one could always cheat to procure the gems, etc., this is true, but it is true for everything else, not only the Lich.

I think I will decrease the amount of spells given by the template, three should do well, however also in this I'm a bit perplexed. A normal mage should have at level 30 exactly the double amount of spells in respect to the BGII specifics, for this I've given the Lich that, at first sight, insane amount of spells. Then, knowing that there is a Wish spell that let you rememorize at continum spells as you had just rested, what difference it really makes? When you will have that spell having five or ten more spells memorized it is not a great difference.

Charisma: okay, the Lich is an undead, but charisma is not only a factor of grace; a person could have charisma also because he is feared, as in the case of Shamans for example. No one loves a Shaman, but they are so feared in the tribe that who would mind to disagree? Same for the Lich. A powerful entity is charismatic, the two things goes togheter.

AC: there was an error now resolved; the Lich should have a natural armor of +5, not +5 to the one already present. So if for example you have dex at 18 there is no difference for AC applying the template or not. I think that this is a good choice: staying strictly to the rules a Lich could never be killed (if you don't destroy the phylactery) so the body has some protection, as all undead.

Disease: sorry, I forgot to include that for Skeleton Warriors and Lich the general rules for Undead apply, so no disease, no poison, etc. However I discovered that something didn't work as planned, so sometimes these immunities didn't work, now all is corrected.

Requirements: hmmm, I think high intelligence and wisdow are needed to made the phylactery, but I want to stay more on the path of thing needed to let the phylactery work than for what is needed to apply it. So, for example, having three Rogue stone seems appropriate because if you do things regurarly you will have to do much work before obtaining them, and try to do this while you try to procure 120.000 gp, you must not spent a gold point, the thing become dangerous. Then there is a little secret in how to obtain the phylactery that I don't want to spoiler here

For the Dark Knight I agree in almost all the parts, it seems quite right the way suggested, I will do the appropriate changes. Neither I didn't like too much the choice of spells give by the 3D&D manual, so a bit of stray I think is needed, as it is the Death Knight seems more an half-church-priest instead that an horror as s/he should be.

In any case I will let you know all the variations I'm putting so we could talk of them togheter and come to a good and balanced solution.

Sincerely,
Lavir

 

Thanks for the fast comments Lavir.

Back to the Lich:
alright, I understand the true power of a Lich, the only reason I'm trying to reduce its abilities somehow is to maintain balance(ooh, just like Jaheira) Can U/You(for Lokken) imagine a crappy 16 level mage as a powerful Lich? Well...sounds strange for me. All the Liches in-game are at least at 20. level or higher. And about the charisma - yes, U/You are right about that one. But there should be nagative sides of the Lich form, I'm still saying this.

Now, let me see the other templates, this time the Skeleton Warrior:

-Well, I'm not positive, why a SW should become greater AC. It gets all the way slower, so it can be hit more easily. The +4 AC is very high.;
-the 15 points damage reduction is also too powerful. I think a +40% resistance to all physical attacks (except blunt) would be better;
-a +4 to STR seems logical, but the +2 WIS and CHA? Heey. This IS a stupid undead right? I think it should receive +2CON as well, but suffer 2 points in DEX(slow), 3 points in INT, and a massive 5 points in CHA.;
-the 28% magic resist should be taken as +28%;
-allignment change OK;
-I think it would be a nice thing, if the SW could receive the Turn Undead ability;
-it should be immune to mind spells, poison and disease as well;

Disadvantages:

-Cannot be hasted;
-Immune to bless, and all forms of godly enchantments (priest spells like Champions strength(?), and to ALL HEALING SPELLS - this means it could only be healed through potions;
-suffer a -25% resistance to blunt attacks;

Requirements:

-10. lvl fighter/barbarian or above;
-50.000 Gold;
-a scroll of Animate Dead and Death Spell;
-CON of 17 or higher;

I guess the Skeleton Warrior seems pretty balanced that way.

Now about the Vampire:

-the AC bonus of 6 is absurd, for example a +3 instead;
-the ability bonuses: STR+2, DEX+4, WIS+2, INT+1, CHA+3;
-the regeneration should be reduced to 1 hp/round;
-the Domination ability is OK, but perhaps in this way: the V gets this ability at 9.level(once/day) and receives another one/day every 3 levels of experience. And the saving throw should be at -2;
-the summon monster ability somehow doesn't matches the V. Animate dead should be better(starts with one at 15. level, then +1 every 3 levels);
-cold and electricity resistances are correct;
-The fists are considered +3 magical weapons, and drain the victim of 2 levels(NO CON. DRAIN!) if fails to save vs. death at -2) the save vs. death should be used, I think, for the balance.
-allignment change ok.
-should be immune to mind spells, disease and poison;
-moves at +5;
Disadvantages:

-Cannot wear armor greater than Studded leather - have U ever heard of a V running around in F.Plate mail???;
-cannot use ranged weapons;
-cannot wear helmet;
-takes 1d12 damage on daylight every second;
-Monks cannot use this template (toooooo powerful with the fists!!!)
Requirements:

-70.000 Gold;
-a vampire's blood (this could be obtained from the first Vampire U slay);
10. lvl. or higher;
-15 INT or above, and at least 14 CHA;

This one is very balanced this way, don't U think?

Comments?

[This message has been edited by TGM (edited September 24, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by TGM (edited September 24, 2001).]

 

Dear TGM,

Thanks again for the comments.

Now I have a question however: you are taking these requirements from somewhere or are a fruit of your thought? I ask this because, I repeat, all these variations are truly 3D&D templates, not invented by me, and as I said in a precedent post, many of these templates could be applied to characters without *any* specification in almost all the case (apart Lich, SW and DK).

The balance, yes, I know, but you think that you will be able for example to have more than one template for party in normal circustamces? I don't think so. So, let examine a bit the thing. I want to talk also about role playing here. For example a Vampire is very strong, +2 to strenght would make him a vampire that has drunk amenic blood Apart from jokes, I've tried to play with a vampire template, and I assure you that it is very difficult to handle. Many situations requires that you will be out of the reach of inns, so you cannot rest if you don't want to end like dirt. Now, considering this I think the template is well balanced, and the people behind AD&D have thought about it. Sure, BGII has not a DM and other things, and so I've included requirements (a little scarce in the beginning I must confess, but because I couldn't be possibly play with all of them to see how balanced they will be in the end, and I think it is better to be less restrictive the first time than adjust the target after). I like the Vampire template. It has domination at will as a real Vampire will have, I will revise summoning monster so to have it summoning only wolfes, as it should be. Try to play with the Vampire for half game and tell me if it is not balanced. To tell you the truth when I first tried it I thought the same thing about all the enanchements, then I've played through the quests and I've changed my mind.

Still, I like many of your ideas very much, so I will include as many as possible (one side note: the SW magic resistance is already +28%) and the template is already immune to poison and disease being an undead (I forgot to mention this in the templates specifications). The armour of a skeleton warrior will not be changeable, and probably also the weapon. For the part of the CH you are right, there is no need in BGII to have it adjusted, since saving throws are not made in base to charisma as in Neverwinter Nights (that use real 3D&D rules).

I will tell you what it is my point of view of templates: they are done willingly to have characters of true power, because it is like finding that god-like armour after an intricate dungeon, it makes you feel worthy of what you have done. I will always remember when I was 15 and I played one of the most cruel games of all history: "Beast" for the Amiga. After having succeeded to beat the ultimate monster without cheats (who knows the game will understand what this means) I truly expected a great end since all the efforts that one should put to finish it, but, alas, instead the end was simply a blank screen with a tiny little string at the low right corner displaying "you have finished the game, congratulations". I tell you, I would have liked to throw the computer out the window, and I will have done that if my parents didn't stop me.

All this to say that I want to follow this rute: instead of making the templates less powerful I want to make them much more challenging to acquire, so that applying one of them will bring the full reward to the player that has worked hard to apply it. And, as I said, with the new requirements it will be almost impossible to have more than one template for party, so having a powerful character (then, were you not a child of Bhaal?) will not made that big difference in the end, and in any case, it will be well earned.

Returning then to the story of the child of Bhaal, would you like more to play for example with a character that could change in a dragon and be a *real* Bhaalspawn (ToB anyone?) instead of being almost identical, if not inferior, to other PCs in the party? I think that this will have a greater impact in the overall story as well, and I also think that people will try to put a template to the character that they feel more impersonated with (as example Edwin for the Lich template).

These are my two cents on the matter. As always I'm open to comments on my point of view.

Sincerely,
Lavir

 

To Lavir

Thank you very much for your thoughts in this matter, I appriciate it much, so now I'll talk about the "moral" side of having a template in the party. (and I think you've asked, where I get those ideas from. Yes in majority they are my own ideas, but I have right here at my side 5 different RP games and I'm checking those on the matter as well - they are quite familiar with these creatures. Perhaps the names are changing, but most attributes/abilities are the same)

About the 3D&D rules: well, this one shouldn't be the largest factor in creating those templates, because BG2 and ToB are both steping over its limits many times. So I think we must not concentrate on "how they would fit in to the REAL 3D&D rules, but how they will work in the game (which works..well..a bit different than the original Role Playing game). Most of my thoughts (and many of my restrictions) came from this concept, and against the vision of a new "powergaming - patch".

Yes, you are talkin about roleplay -and you picked out the Vampire for an example. Right, I belive many of your thoughts are right. (And I have tried the Vampire and played with it .. hmm .. till I finished off MaeVar I think, yes) and was not that easy as I thought at first sight. However the fights with now as a teplate were NOT very challenging. Every opponent I met fell extremely fast from that improved L.Drain and my immense power - due to the highly increased stats - this makes the first few encounters interesting and funny, but as you progress (and become more powerful) the game will somehow lose its taste (for me at least) because of the easy gameplay. Believe me it is like you have turned down the difficulty level to 'easy'. This is still something that needs to be thinked on a bit more.

About your wiev of the templates: hehh, right. I lived the same situation (with the Amiga, and many other game stations, even arcades) many times. I like it too, if someone gets what he deserves after a well fought battle or a major quest - but remember: these games (BG series, IWD, NWN, P:T)are already USING this method, but in a very balanced way, and we shouldn't destroy this fine balance just to "give godly powers to players"! The most interesing in these gmaes is, that there are MORE powerful opponents and many of them are absolutely stronger than you(or your party). This is the flavor that makes the point in this: after defeating these mighty opponents you feel much better, because you have done something unusual and brave. And if you get some new abilites and items as well, things are perfect. BUT. If we begin to play with an overpowered character (no matter how hard the requirements will be - if you manage to match them, you will be overpowered to this game and the quests or opponents) the game will give you fun only till you met the requirements. There you will get your temnplate, you will be amazed by its powers - possibly go and destroy a bunch of opponents without too much difficulty - but then you will start to getting bored, because there is no more challenge, and that is what makes this game so popular and favored. Yes, the vamp sounds difiicult to play, but the situazion is very different at the others - for example the Lich. There are simply NO RESTRICTIONS and NO NEGATIVE SIDES of the template and this is bad. This is, why I was trying to give it some negative effects as well - looka at this game: you can't find anything that would give the character SO MUCH power WITHOUT restrictions or NEGATIVE affects. Think on this a bit more, please.

Later I will post my ideas about the other templates as well.

Good game, and have fun

TGM

 

Dear TGM,

Thanks for your message.

Well, you are right. Maybe I've made the impression of having created these templates for giving players some power gamers utilities to wrestle on. It is not so, however. When I first made these templates I didn't know for sure how they will have worked in the game background, and I tried to stay more close possible to the D&D rules for this, then I thought that actually playing would reveal how much the game fun were destroyed by them, and balance all. You are right, many of these templates need some negative side (as for the Vampire), I don't really want to make a god-like character that could kill everything at first sight. This is not what I'm trying to do.

What I would like to do is to have a real characters as it is the template (i.e. I want a character to be able to apply some specific ability that could re-create the feel of beeing a true child of Bhaal, with specific powers) without destroying the challenge. This is very difficult to do, you will agree. It requires much much tweaking; for this I'm asking all your help, because I cannot possibly do this all alone.

Believe me, I just tried today to implement some down side for the more strong templates as the Lich; after all this creature is still two bones walking, so it must have less resistance in many things respect to humans or other humanoid races.

With my post before I didn't want to say that I want to make invincible characters, only that I want to give the feeling of finding an enanchment (and only one) to one member of the group, to makes him/her become nearer to the image of a Child of Bhaal.

I don't want to make battle too easy, but I don't neither want to see a Lich that gets beaten as a normal mage. The difficulty is just this: finding the right balance beetween power and too much power.

As a I said I agree with you that the templates how are now are a bit too overpowered in many cases, but it was done willingly. Toggling power is much easier that add new one, and I want to give the feeling that a person is really playing the character impersonated by the template. So this mean that if I play a Lich I play a character that has a great power with arcane arts, but surely it is much much weaker in hand to hand, and so on. In all of this I'm working and your and others suggeriments are all taken in account, I'm just contrapposing your points of view to find the best balanced view possible.

Well, having said this I await your other Templates specifications

And also to all the others, wake up and say something

Sincerely,
Lavir

 

Not to interrupt this highly entertaining debate with inane questions, but what exactly is the 'template'? From the sounds of things the lich/vamp/sw/etc. template is something you 'acquire' at a certain stage of the game. Do I have that right? Or is it the basis for an original character creation?

And with respect to TGW, I don't give a good goddamn about game balance. (Besides, a level 18 sorcerer with either the robe of vecna or the amulet of power, who can therefore fire off his time stop just a bit quicker, can wax a lich before he even gets a spell off.) I've finished this game so many times that I'm frankly bored with it, but it's the only pc game I own. I want to try out some new stuff.

Are the downloads on Tal's link (see above) the latest ones? And which bg2 folder do you put them in once you have them?

If this is as cool as it sounds, I'll have to agree with Extremist's unqualified praise.

 

Dear Gonzago,

I suggest you to wait the new patch/update before downloading the templates, because the current ones will not work with the old templates that are downloadable now. The updated file will be available at the end of this week, so it is better to wait a bit if you don't want to redo all from the start.

The templates are some sort of kits that could be applied to standard classes such as Fighter, Mages, Sorcerers, Cleric, etc. when some requirements are met. They will enhance greatly the power of the character to whom you apply one of them.

As a side note: now I have the specific needed to apply the new templates. I've planned this:

Half-Dragon: the blood of a dragon in the game (Black/Red/Silver) that will also specific the dragon race you will be a member of. I will make the battles with these dragons much more challenging, so you will have a hard time to procure the blood. The silver race being more later in the game will be the stronger one. After having the blood you will also need a wardstone that you could buy in a special store made appositely to purchase these "templates objects", that will cost approximately 100.000 gp, and five diamonds.

Half-Celestial: the heart of a demon (a special one that you could find a bit further in the pit where are the normal tanarri, another though battle), plus the Wand of Wonders, and a special amulet that can be purchased to the same shop as above.

Half-Fiend: currently still testing this, so I don't yet know for sure what I will do.

Vampire: the blood of a Vampire (the one in the Shalangar residence). I will enanche also this battle, and a scroll purchased in the same shop that will cost approximately 70.000 gp.

Lich: three rogue stones, a ritual purchasable in the same shop (of this I don't want to talk too much, you will discover how it works for yourself), 120.000 gp, and the Staff of the Magi (same as above).

Death Knight: fallen paladin, 80.000 gp, destroy the radiant heart headquarters, some gems.

Skeleton Warrior: don't know yet.

I will let you know in a short time what will be the abilities and drawbacks of all these templates.

As always suggestions are welcome.

Sincerely,
Lavir

 

Gonzago, information on statistics of the templates and how to use and install them can be found in the text files, in the download from SP in the baldurs gate 2 section.

and some liches in bg2 aren't more than lvl 11, they just have powerful spells.

for the templates in general, I think they're pretty ok, after the cost increases (like the lich's cost). Why use a lot of money on something that aren't bringing profit to your power?

I'm really looking forward to the half-dragon template.
I think the template should be kept for sorcerers, being able to cast innate spells. Shapeshifting to a dragon could be awesome, I would love to see this
Perhaps you could decide the dragon type by the PC's alignment, say red for evil, etc.

Though I think they should be kept as much as possible to the original idea of 3e, though they still need tweaking of course.


[This message has been edited by Lokken (edited September 25, 2001).]

 

Hi there!

Well then, let me just continue with my ideas on the Half-Fiend:

I thought about this one a lot, how to make it more interesting.

-the Fiends hands are now considered +2 weapons;
-+1 to THACO every 6 levels of experience;
-instead of the "50% probability to double speed" I advise to give it a +3 bonus to movement speed, and +2 bonus to the speed factor;
-ability scores: STR+3, DEX+2, CON+3, INT+1, WIS+1, CHA+2;
-there is no need for a boost in AC, the DEX bonus already solves that;
-it should receive a +15% magic resistance and +20% fire resistance as well;
about the special abilities of this template: I tried out this one as well, and I think it is not a good idea, to give the abilities to the template right after the transformation. It has simply no fun, gainig all those abilities at once. And the ability bonuses +the resistances are a big bonus, so it should receive its true power more slowly. I think, they should be added like this:
-Doom: starts at level 9(once/day), and gains another every three levels;
-Burning hands: at level 9(once per day), and gains another one every 4 level;
-Hold person: Starts at level 10, one added every 4 levels;
-Aganazar's scorcher: receives at level 10, one added every 5 levels;
-Poison: starts at level 11, one added every 4 exp. levels;
-Unholy Blight:this should be a once/day ability, and the template should receive it at level 12;
-better leave the Contagion ability to the Death Knight, it is more fitting to him;
-Stone skin: I'm not positive about this one that much...Stoneskin for an already powerful fighter? You must know, but I think a protection from Normal weapons should be better. Only once per day.;
-Unholy Word: only once/day, gains at level 15;
-at level 16 fists are now +3 weapons;
-instead of Abi-D.Horrid wilting I suggest Sunfire would be a better choice, it is quit fitting to the fiend. And this ability should be received at level 17;
-Symbol Fear at level 19, only once/day;
-at level 20. the fists are considered +4 weapons;
-Symbol Death at level 21, once/day;
-Gate at level 23, once per 2 days;
-Firestorm: at level 25, once per day only.;
-changes allignment to Chaotic Evil;
-And the Destruction ability should not be used at all. It is waay too overpowered, and not very fitting I think.

So you see the Fiend is now a bit more "infernal" with all those fire-abilities, I think this is more intersting this way. This should be a template, that concentrates its powers for the ATTACKS, but it will be less protected(this is why we don't need Stone Skin and other protecting abilities)

Disadvantages:
-Cannot use ANY weapons;
-Cannot wear helmet;
-cannot use shields;
-cannot be a spell-casting class (Mage, Cleric, Bard, Sorcerer)
- -50% resist to cold;

Requirements:
-11. level or above;
-Evil allignment;
-at least 16 CON and 16 INT;
-a Demon's heart;
-80.000 gold;
-a Summoning Book (this could contain the ritual to summon the fiend - into the body of the PC, actually )this could be recovered from Dracandros and his IMPROVED follovers at hte Bridge District;

I will continue with the Half-Celestial a bit later.

Comments?


[This message has been edited by TGM (edited September 25, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by TGM (edited September 25, 2001).]

 

well, I disagree with the dex boni giving you AC. If you have 18 dex and raise it to 20 that way, you don't get any additional AC bonus.

Though the demon heart is a good idea, plenty of opportunity to get those in the planar sphere

I think you should be able to get all the abilities within the cap limit in SoA, not everyone have ToB you know. High-level abilities in ToB will be sufficient high level bonus

[This message has been edited by Lokken (edited September 25, 2001).]

 

Dear Forum,

As promised I post the new requirements and specifics of the templates. There is also included the Half-Dragon one. One thing before you will assault me saying the the Half-Dragon template is too strong: I've prepared special AI scripts for the battle between the dragon to obtain the blood, and I can assure you that they are very challenging. In any case when the update will be ready we will see if you can succeed to acquire some dragon blood. If the battle are too difficult I will tweak them. For me they are challenging but not impossible (not at hard level however).

These are the specifications and requirements, as always critics and suggestions are welcome (TMG, you will see that I've included many of your ideas in this new release).

---------------------------------------
HALF-CELESTIAL (Air Elemental)
---------------------------------------

Advantages:
-----------

- +5 movement rate
- AC +1
- Str +2, Dex +4, Con +4, Wis +2, Int +2, Cha +4
- Immunity to acid, cold, disease and electricity
- Special abilities:

Fly (Teleport) at will
Protection from Evil - 1 every 2 levels from level 9 (max 5)
Bless - 1 every 2 levels from level 10 (max 5)
Cure Serious Wounds - 1 every 3 levels from level 10 (max 4)
True Sight - 1 every 3 levels from level 11 (max 3)
Heal- 1 every 3 levels from level 12 (max 3)
Mass Cure - 1 every 4 levels from level 12 (max 2)

Level 15-16 Holy Bolt 1/day (2 at level 16)
Level 17 Summon Greater Air Elemental
Level 18 Resurrection
Level 19+ Absolute Immunity

Disavantages:
-------------

- -50% resistance to poison
- -50% of magic and magic damage resistance
- -40% of fire and magic fire resistance
- Could not use missile weapons, shields or helmets
- Upon entering a new area there is 20% of probability that a fiend will come and attack the party

Needed to add the template:
---------------------------

- Level 11 or higher
- Fiend Heart
- Celestial Harp (purchased from Lamia's store in the Graveyard district for 5.000 gp)
- Nymph Cloak, Pearly white Ioun Stone, Melodic Chain, Two Handed sword +2, Boot of Avoidance, Shield of Armony, Rod of Resurection, Girdle of Bluntness, Helm of Glory, 10 potions of Extra healing, 3 potions of oil of speed.
- Good alignment
- 90.000 gold points


---------------------------------------
HALF-FIEND (Demon)
---------------------------------------

Advantages:
-----------

- +3 Movement rate
- AC +1
- Str +4, Dex +2, Con +4, Int +2, Wis +1, Cha +2
- Immunity to poison, and have acid, cold, electricity 20
- Special abilities:

Fly (Teleport) at will
Blur - 1 every 2 levels from level 9 (max 5)
Burning Hands - 1 every 2 levels from level 10 (max 5)
Flame Arrow - 1 every 3 levels from level 10 (max 4)
Poison - 1 every 3 levels from level 11 (max 3)
Sunfire - 1 every 3 levels from level 12 (max 3)
Harm - 1 every 4 levels from level 12 (max 2)

Level 15-16 Power Word Stun 1/day (2 at level 16)
Level 17 Symbol Fear
Level 18 Special Gate
Level 19+ Imprisonment

Disavantages:
-------------

- Could not receive healing or aid spells
- Could not be resurrected
- Could not use armor greater than leather or studdeth leather
- -50% to fire and magic fire resistance
- Upon entering a new area a 20% of probability that two Greater Air Elementals will come to attack the party.

Needed to add the template:
---------------------------

- Level 11 or higher
- Archangel heart
- Lucifer's Horn (purchased from Lamia's store for 6.000 gp)
- Helmet of Defense, Pale green Ioun Stone, Elven Chain +1, Cursed Berserking sword, Stiletto of Demarchess +2, Girdle of Fortitude, Scrolls of Cacofiend and Protection from the Elements.
- Evil alignment
- 90.000 gold points


---------------------------------------
VAMPIRE
---------------------------------------

Advantages:
-----------

- AC +4
- Double movement speed
- Str +4, Dex +3, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +2
- Regenerate 1 HP every 4 seconds
- Domination at will at -4
- Summon Wolfs at will
- Cold and electricity resistance 20
- 2 Level Drain and 2 Constitution Drain for every hit with the fists

Disavantages:
-------------

- Cannot walk outdoor in the day hours or take 4d8 damage the first round, the second 8d8 and at the third round is disintegrated
- Cannot wear armor
- Cannot use weapons
- Change alignment to neutral evil

Needed to add the template:
---------------------------

- Vampire Blood
- Boots of speed, Ring of Danger Sense, Ring of Human Influence, Helm of Charm Protection, Amulet of Power, Cloack of the Sewers.
- Liber Aliquem Abhominabilem Facere (The Book of Darkness) - purchased from Lamia's store for 5.000 gp.
- 65.000 gold points


---------------------------------------
LICH
---------------------------------------

Advantages:
-----------

- Natural AC +5
- No pause between spells
- +3 spells per level (both wizard or cleric)
- Immune to cold, electricity, polymorph and mind-affecting spells
- Undead immunities
- Special Touch (fist): every creature hit must save vs. breath or be paralyzed for 4 rounds (cannot be dispelled)
- +1 to be Hit, 15 resistance to all physical attacks (apart crushing)
- +2 to Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma

Disavantages:
-------------

- -50% resistance to fire and crushing damage
- -5 to constitution, dexterity and strenght
- Very low movement rate
- -3 to reputation and then could never increase above 10 or the phylactery will be destroyed.
- Change alignment to neutral evil

Needed to add the template:
---------------------------

- Mage, Cleric or Druid of level 13 or above
- 100.000 gold points and 3 rogue stones
- Ring of Gaax, Ring of Acuity, Amulet of Metaspell Influence, Staff of the Magi, Rod of Terror, Wand of Wonders.
- THEURGIA GOETIA SUMMA - Congressum cum Daemone (Phylactery's creation book) - Purchased from Lamia for 20.000 gp.


---------------------------------------
SKELETON WARRIOR
---------------------------------------

Advantages:
-----------

- AC +3
- Damage reduction by 15 (apart crushing), +1 to be Hit
- Magic Resistance 50%
- +2 to Strength and Constitution
- +2 to Damage bonus

Disavantages:
-------------

- -5 to Charisma and Dexterity
- Could not change armor
- -50% resistance to crushing damage
- -50% resistance to fire and magic fire damage
- Low movement rate
- -4 THAC0, -2 dexterity
- Could not be hasted and healed

Needed to add the template:
---------------------------

- Fighter of level 9 or above
- Full Plate +2, Two Handed sword +1, Elven Court Bow, Warhammer Ashideena, Animate Dead scroll.
- 60.000 gold points


---------------------------------------
DEATH KNIGHT
---------------------------------------

Advantages:
-----------

- +3 to Strength and a +2 to Wisdom
- Special abilities:

Larloch's Minor Drain - 1 every 2 levels from level 9 for a maximum of 4
Ghoul Touch - 1 every 2 levels from level 10, maximum 4
Horror - 1 every 3 levels from level 11, maximum 3
Vampiric Touch - 1 every 4 levels from level 10, maximum 2
Animate Dead - 1 every 4 levels from level 11, maximum 2
Cloud Kill - level 13 - 1/day
Death Spell - level 15 - 1/day
Finger of Death - level 16 - 1/day
Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting - 1/day from level 17
Energy Drain - 1/day from level 19

- Magic Resistance 30%
- Immune to hold spells

Disavantages:
-------------

- -3 to charisma
- -30% to lightning resistance
- Lose Turn Undead
- Lose Priest spells
- Lose Lay on Hands
- Could not use Carsomyr
- Lose 2 points of reputation

Needed to add the template:
---------------------------

- Cup of Anarg
- Dark Brotherhood Scroll (purchased from Lamia's shop for 500 gp)
- Dark Mail +3, Carsomyr, Bracers of Defense AC 8, Pixie Prick +3, Spear of the Unicorn, Boots of Stealth, Finger of Death scroll, Abi dalzim's Horrid Wilting scroll.
- Fallen Paladin of level 9 or above
- 16 Strenght, 16 Wisdom, 15 Constitution
- 80.000 gold points


---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
HALF DRAGON
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------

---------------------------------------
** Black Dragon Race
---------------------------------------

Advantages:
-----------

- Could shapechange in a Black Dragon once every 3 days
- AC +3
- Strenght +4, Constitution +2, Intelligence +2, Wisdom +2
- +3 Damage
- +20 Maximum HP
- Special fist attack that does 2d6 bite damage plus 1d6 acid damage
- +2 attacks per round
- Immunity to acid and poison
- Immune to spells up to third level
- Special abilities: Line of Acid 3/day and Poison 3/day

Disavantages:
-------------

- Could not wear armor
- -3 to Movement speed
- -2 to THAC0
- -3 dexterity
- -40% resistance to Fire, Cold and Electricity
- -30% resistance to piercing damage

Black Dragon change specifics:
------------------------------

AC: -12
4 Attacks per round that does 2d8 + 12 poison damage (lose 1 HP every 2 seconds if hitted) and considered as a +5 weapon
Strenght: 25, Constitution: 20, Dexterity: 14, Intelligence: 19, Wisdom: 16, Charisma: 15
Magic Resistance 50%
Magic Damage resistance 70%
Immune to BackStabbing
Poison and Line of Acid at will
Summoning Shadow Fiend at will
Shadow Dragon Wing Buffet
Shadow Dragon Stone Skin
Breach, Pierce Shield
Could not use armor or equipment or weapons when shapechanged

Needed to apply the template:
-----------------------------

- Level 11 or above
- Shadow Dragon Blood
- Shadow Dragon scales
- 3 shappire, 85.000 gold points, Shadow Dragon Stone (purchased for 20.000 gp from the Lamia store)
- Scrolls of Protection from Acid, Protection from Poison, Wand of Cloudkill, Cloak of Non-Detection, Poisoned Throwing Dagger, Scroll of Power Word Blind, Scroll of Pierce Shield, Scroll of Improved invisibility, 10 potions of invisibility.


---------------------------------------
Red Dragon Race
---------------------------------------

Advantages:
-----------

- Could shapechange in a Red Dragon once every 4 days
- AC +4
- Strenght +5, Constitution +2, Intelligence +2, Wis +2
- +3 Damage
- +30 Maximum HP
- Special fist attack that does 2d6 bite damage plus 1d8 fire damage
- +2 attacks per round
- Immunity to Fire
- 40% Magic resistance
- Immune to spells up to fourth level
- Special abilities: Fireball 3/day and Summon Fire Elemental 1/day

Disavantages:
-------------

- Could not wear armor
- -4 to Movement speed
- -2 to THAC0
- -3 dexterity
- -60% resistance to Cold
- -30% resistance to Acid and Poison
- -20% resistance to Electricity
- -20% resistance to piercing damage

Red Dragon specifics:
---------------------

AC: -15
4 Attacks per round that does 3d8 + 15 fire damage (45% probability that a fireball will explode if the target is hit) and considered as a +5 weapon
Strenght: 25, Constitution: 22, Dexterity: 11, Intelligence: 19, Wisdom: 17, Charisma: 16
Magic Resistance 80%
Magic Damage resistance 100%
Immune to BackStabbing
Dragon Breath at will
Summoning Fire Elemental at will
Red Dragon Wing Buffet
Red Dragon Stone Skin
Breach, Ruby Ray of Reversal
Could not use items or weapons when shapechanged

Needed to apply the template:
-----------------------------

- Level 13 or above
- Red Dragon Blood
- Red Dragon scales and Dragon Helmet
- 5 diamonds, 90.000 gold points, Red Dragon Stone (purchased for 25.000 gp from the Lamia store)
- Scrolls of Protection from Fire and Summon Fire Elemental, Flail of The Ages, Ring of The Ram, Shield Amulet, Mage robe of fire resistance, Ring of fire resistance, Belt of Inertial Barrier, Scroll of Protection from the Elements, Scroll of Ruby Ray of Reversal.


---------------------------------------
Blue Dragon Race
---------------------------------------

Advantages:
-----------

- Could shapechange in a Blue Dragon once every 5 days
- AC +5
- Strenght +5, Constitution +4, Intelligence +2, Wis +3
- +4 Damage
- +40 Maximum HP
- Special fist attack that does 2d6 bite damage plus 1d10 electric damage
- +2 attacks per round
- Immunity to Cold and Electricity
- 20% Magic resistance
- Immune to spells up to fifth level
- Special abilities: Cone of Cold 3/day and Lightning Bolt 2/day

Disavantages:
-------------

- Cannot wear armor
- -4 to Movement speed
- -3 to THAC0
- -3 dexterity
- -60% resistance to Fire
- -30% resistance to Acid and Poison
- -15% resistance to piercing damage

Blue Dragon specifics:
------------------------

AC: -20
4 Attacks per round that does 4d8 + 20 cold damage (save vs. petrification at -2 to not be petrifed) and considered as a +5 weapon
Strenght: 25, Constitution: 25, Dexterity: 10, Intelligence: 20, Wisdom: 18, Charisma: 18
Magic Resistance 65%
Magic Damage resistance 85%
Immune to BackStabbing
Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning at will
Summons Efreeti at will
Blue Dragon Wing Buffet
Blue Dragon Stone Skin
Breach, Spellstrike
Could not use items or weapons when shapechanged

Needed to apply the template:
-----------------------------

- Level 15 or above
- Blue Dragon Blood
- Blue Dragon scales
- 3 pearl necklaces, 1 rogue stone, 5 sapphires, 5 diamonds, 100.000 gold points, Blue Dragon Stone (purchased for 50.000 gp from the Lamia store)
- Scrolls of Protection from Electricity and Protection from Cold, Wand of Lightning, Wand of Cold, Efreeti Bottle, Wand of Heavens, Wand of Fire, Wand of Monser Summoning, Wand of Fear, Staff of Air, Ring of Air control, Ring of Earth control, Ring of Invisibility, Cloak of the Shield, Scroll of Stone Skin, Scroll of Black Blade of Disaster.

 

Well done, Lavir!

This new relaese seems to be quite perfect to me, there are almost no flaws in it(only a few, I will write about them here). The requirements are really hard, and there are VERY good and interesting ideas as well! Your work with these templates and their balance in the game is highly appriciated, thanX for the work!
By the way I must express my highest gratitude for using my ideas and suggestions as well.

oops, before I forget it: plz people, my name is TGM, not TGW or TMG and some...three simple letters Try to memorize them


Now I'll post my comments about each templates:

-Half Celestial:
Seems perfect to me, that Fiend ambush was truly a great idea!;
-Half Fiend:
Now this one is ALMOST perfect, there are some flaws I think. For example the Imprisonment ability. Now this one wasn't needed. This surely can kill some balance, if you use it the right moment: you can simply imprison Irenicus, or a major opponent by using this ability and that's bad. If you are desperate about this one, than at least add a special saving throw, perhaps with +2 should be good. Is is weak that way, but so it is correct, I think. Or better replace it with Firestorm, the original Wail of the Banshee, or something like these;
-again, the requirements are great (how about the Angels heart?)

-Vampire:
Abolutely perfect, I must say.

-Skeleton Warrior:
the same

-Lich:
yes, now this sounds much better this way, and with all the massive requirements. Only one problem: I think a disadvantage should be added. The Lich should not use ANY armor except robes. Because if you were a Druid or Cleric, you will still use your former armors, even FullPlates. And this sure looks funny on a Lich

-Death Knight:
Awesome, my favorit

-about the Dragons:
well, I won't start another hymn about how overpowered they are, simply take some suggestions, ok?

Black Dragon:
Hmm. It seems cool enough, but why on the Nine Hells have you mixed up the Balck and Shadow dragons and their abilities??? This one wasn't the best choice, I think.;

Red Dragon:
really good, except that Fireball thingy upon the succesful hits. Was that necessary?

Blue Dragon:
the same as above, a good one(but why is it stronger and better in many ways than the red?). At the succesful hits I don't understand that cold damage however. Why not electricity? And about the "overpowering" stuff: remember, Abazigal(sorry for this one, don't delete the name, plz.)has only 2 points of bonus electrical damage on a succesful hit...
And wait a minute...shouldn't be that Blue Dragon a Silver Dragon perhaps?...that would solve the problem. But in that case, levae the Lightning breath, and use the real Silver Dragon's Cone of Cold.

Now that was it, and what else should I say at the and: Good work, my friend, keep on this way!

TGM

 

One thing I don't get, do you lose all those items?

Because I would rather just have the characters I have than up/downgrade for the cost of those templates if you lose the equipment. I mean, why on earth would I use anything that have so many disadvantages and cost so much?

And the Skeleton Warrior is way off, look at the advantages compared to disadvantages for christ sake, the bad stuff heavily outweigh the good stuff, you're throwing 60K out the window!

[This message has been edited by Lokken (edited September 26, 2001).]

 

"Forgive me father, for I have sinned."

I use the removal of the exp. cap, and I was wondering if u can use the templates with the cap hack?

 

Lokken,

Yes, I plan that you will lose all these items, but please, let think about it for a moment: for example the Lich will lose the Staff of the Magi and the Ring of Gaax, probably the two most powerful items in the game, ok, but look at what you get please. You get no casting time between spells (better than Improved Alacrity that has 5 spells per round, this way you could cast how many spells do you want in a single round, given the casting time) and +3 spell speed factor that means you could fire at last 5-6 spells when a normal mage would cast 1, normal weapons cannot hit you (so all the monsters that have a good THAC0 but hit with normal weapons couldn't touch you), 3 spells more per level, immunity to almost all the most dreadful attacks of the game, such as imprisonment, level drain, etc. etc. Do you think them little things? I would change everytime the ring of gaax and the staff of the magi for a change as this.

Then think about this: it is very difficult that you will be able to apply more than one template to your group, so the items you lose are little respect to the total.

The Skeleton Warrior is being revisited, I've noted myself that it is now too much weaked.

For the Half-Fiend: Irenicus could not be Imprisoned, as much of the stronger enemies. You have only one charge per day, you cannot use it with mages because they often have protection against it, you could use it only with dumb monsters. I think that it is an overpower, just a great spell to have. A demon is a demon.

For the Dragons: Dragons in BGII are really underpowered. The patch will resolve also this. I will make the battle and the dragons in BGII much more entertaining. How do you think possible for example that a single monk with a fist could kill a dragon? But this is possible. How do you think possible to have a single seventh level spell as finger of death kill a dragon in manners of seconds? But it is possible now. You have a Dragon, one of the stronger creatures existent and it fires a Fireball that you characters could stand as if nothing happened? C'mon! The battle against Kangaax is way more difficult that the one with Firkgaar, how this would be possible. This is nonsense. I want to fight a real dragon and be a real dragon, not a semi-baby-wivern with a breath of a 12th level sorcerer.

For the question about how to implement dragons: no, I will not use the current ones to recover the blood and the scales, because I don't want that people that have already killed these dragons will have to restart a new game. Instead I will do in another way, that will be coherent with the story I've created for the templates, and I hope you will like it. I've made a sort of new quest to apply all these templates, and I'm currently revisiting all the requirements etc. so the one I've posted are not the definitive one. However if one has not yet fight with one of the dragon in the game, I've made things a bit thougher for them, so you will have a real good fight with a real dragon. The Blue Dragon is inerhent to the story, you will discover how playing the game. I could tell only this: all these templates where guardians in the year of the Shadows, and some of them completely different. Well, I hope to have raised your curiosity .

Sincerely,
Lavir

[This message has been edited by Lavir (edited September 26, 2001).]

 

ooh how delightful !! (rubs hands eagerly) I wanna try the lich.. NO! I wanna try the black dragon.. NO red !! wait.. I wanna be a vampire !! crap.. leave me be i need to think

oh yes! I wanna be half-god. No, wait! The protagonist is already half-god (what good is being half-god when the only advantage is a friggin cure light wounds lol)

anyways Lavir, the templates are awesome. Thanks a lot. But I think TGM has swayed you too much on some of them.. especially as mentioned, the skeleton warrior.

also something that bugs me are the resistance disadvantages. Say, for example you get a -50% fire resistance. If your resistance was not high enough, can this go below zero ? If that's the case, what's the deal ? You get more damage ?

Once again, thanks for the brilliant ideas.

<edited for sp>

[This message has been edited by Invoker (edited September 26, 2001).]