I Finished Baldur's Gate last night so back to the Drow prisons! I'm actually very pumped to start playing this again, I really miss the tactical combat. frankly I was getting very bored with Baldur's Gate (shhhhhhh! Just between us... ;) )

I promise not to tell anyone :eek:

You know my feelings on its tediousness.
Aimlessly wandering though life .....

LOL

The 3rd Cellar of the Drow Catacombs - the wizards rooms - nice design! Its really great to be back in this game. The combat is soooooo much more tactical and interesting than... err... can't say it.

A little banter would have been a nice addition though. I'm surprised how much I missed the moody music too ;)

Alright so I'm about 70% done with the 3rd cellar. Its getting more challenging. This is partly due to the fact that I lost a Cleric. I had two Clerics and there is alot of undead in this game. Unfortunately all the locked doors meant I needed a rougue so I had to go add Tudo to my party and that meant losing somebody - so my second Cleric Skylar had to go. I was surprised how much this bothered me since she had been with the party for soooo long. That and the color markings for the characters has changed. Now I have to looks carefully to see who is in round.

Anyway, I plan to go get Skylar for the final battle - its wierd not having her in the party! Tudo is surprisingly effective tough - last night he visibly dodged a Dark Narga's poison attack. There was a cool little dodge animation too ;)

I'll say it again - this game is HOPELESSLY UNDERRATED!!!!!

If anybody reads this - the second half of the game is alot better than the first half. Its too bad so few stuck it out to experience how good POR2 really is. Seriously! Its really good!

I totally agree with you Todd!

The game gets better and better as you go on - the artwork, the questing, and the NPC interactions!

You two must be this game's biggest fans...

LOL :)

I ALWAYS support the underdog!

You'd be surprised - there are some fairly active forums for this game out there.

So I ran into 3 Drow assasin archers last night. Holy cow, they pummelled my poor magic users. I had to raise dead twice in one battle! Talk about spell resistence and saving throws - impossible! Can't say I'm looking forward to running into those baddies again any time soon. I think one sword swing got me for 55 HP!

Is there any penalty for raise dead? I'm assuming I don't get XP credit for that character for the current combat scenario, but are there any other penalties? I'm starting to grow accustomed to periodic raisings LOL ;)

I had just gotten to the drow catecombs when I had to step away for a while (two months now). I'm glad the action picks up from here on out. The dwarven dungeons were quite expansive and slow to go through (one of the few cases when smaller might have been better).

I think the only aspect I don't like is not being able to pick your own feats and skills -- but then it really hasn't mattered much.

The dwarven ruins simply werent as good - and I think that sealed the fate of this game more than the slow undead, initial bugs and missing skills/feats customization. In the end though - I think you are right about the skills/feats. Who wouldnt take Cleave and Greater Cleave? Spell penetration? Uncanny Dodge? Clearly the developers should have given you the choice but at least they picked well. Still lame though.

Truthfully, I cannot image NOT taking a break from this game periodically. While the combat is addictive and the NPC's and quests (after the dwarven ruins) really pick up nicely, its still a massive dungeon crawl and it can get tedious.

Then again, I found Baldur's Gate extremely tedious with all the repetitive terrain and respawns which is why it took me 8 years to finish it.

That's why the fully patch Temple Of Elemental Evil is my favorite game without question. Not too short, not too long, incredible customization and stellar detailed combat. POR2 is ToEE's 300% longer but ultimately lesser cousin.

But there are so great things about POR2. My expectations were next to 0 after what I read online. I'm now convinced that most of those opinions were second hand - POR2 is a "popular" bashing choice for bandwagon bashing. Its practically a sport - the "legend" of the worst and clearly biggest RPG ever made. What a huge waste. The game is so much better than the undeserved crucification it recieved.

Yeah, those drow archers are nasty.

Are you high enough level to cast confusion? It stops most of them in their tracks!

BTW, I played this game through, start to finish, with only brief breaks for NWN and BG I. I found it more addictive than either of those 2.

Yes I have confusion - but it doesnt seem to work on the Assassin archers due to massive spell resistence (assassins are dressed in all black head to toe, not the regular archers). I'll try again if I have misfortune to run into them. They were a random spawn I think - I was coming right off a battle with an Arch Lich in the south east corner of the 3rd Cellar.

More addictive than NWN? That's not saying much LOL. I can't even get the multiplayer NWN to hold my interest. But yeah, I find it more appealing than BG as well but I'm sure that's a rare opinion.

I don't think I've ever asked you - have you played ToEE? If so did you like it?

Hmm. I don't remember having such a hard time with those assassins. How many hitpoints does you mage have? When my sorcerer/thief made it to that point he had something like 175 hitpoints.... yes, there is an exploit that I didn't consciously take advantage of.... really.... :rolleyes:

If you are wearing CON modifying magic when you level up strange things can happen to your hitpoints.... Sometimes they are lower than expected sometimes they are higher.

Make sure that you've got your fighter wearing high initiative and maximum movement rate magic (keep the encumbrance down). There's a few items that subtract a few hundred from your encumbrance.

Have your fighter close on those archers before they have a chance to get many shots off. The assassins have low fortitude so use magic that requires a fortitude saving throw (finger of death comes to mind).....Again, high initiative on your mage will help a lot here.

Yes, I played TOEE, and I loved the turn-based combat, and the crafting system was fantastic, too! There were bugs, but they were livable. I liked the graphics better than PoR, and the display of area of effects was a little better done. The story line was OK, although I found Hommet a bit slow. In general, I thought it was too short. I prefer the epicness of PoR. Nothing beats going from level 1 to level 32 in a single game! But I'd say the overall quality of ToEE beats PoR.

Yeah, NWN is not turn-based so I constantly hit the spacebar which can be annoying, as it's not very responsive sometimes, yet...

Have you played any of the community NWN mods? The ones I've played are much better than the original campaign. Of course, they are free and can be a bit buggy, but next to ToEE and PoR, the bugs are usually minor.

I'm working through the Sands of Fate epic level mods and finished Rick Francis's Eye of the Beholder remake. Both are fantastic! If you like a huge pure dungeon crawl that takes you from level 1 all the way to about level 37, try out Eye of the Beholder. It's probably the most interesting dungeon I've ever explored. Huge variety in settings, creatures, puzzles, and it's challenging!

[ March 08, 2006, 00:27: Message edited by: Thrasher91604 ]

I didnt realize you had a 2 man party. I've got a full party so I only got the "Finger of Death" option last night. I took "Control Undead" instead. 3 of my party have HP over 100 but on average my levels at this point are about 14 so I'm not as buffed as you were. I just entered the 4th cellar last night (the prison proper).

The Arrocat den was a blast! This game keeps surprising me. I got whiped out on my first attempt since I was so serverly flanked the first time.

On ToEE, I really miss the combat "pathing" and the pinned pathing nodes for movement, the 5 Step, the more robust attacks of opportunity. I'm get annoyed in POR2 everytime a Mhorg waltzes by my buffed fighters to flank my mage. I scream at the screen "Attack of Opportunity!!!!! Attack of Opportunity!!!!" but the game totally ignores my protests! LOL. I actually thought that ToEE was the perfect length for a "module" approach to releases. Unfortunately Atari murdered that potential - although someone independent is working on "Keep of the Borderlands" so there is a glimmer of hope for more ToEE engined games. Best turn based combat system ever devised. No game compares even remotely.

About NWN - there are just too many things that turn me off. My brother made the mistake of showing me how his 7 year old son was designing levels with the tile editor. I said "hey thanks for killing NWN for me." Now every time I look at NWN I just see the tiles and immersion is totally destroyed. I addition, if I can only control a single character I want total control like Gothic II. I despise Diablo and the wretched influence it has had on control interfaces. NWN may be D&D but it really boils down to "click click click" and hotkeys. It just bores me to tears. With the inclusion of the spacebar pause (although it works 70% of the time) I could manage a much larger party. In the end it feels too simplistic - like err... a 7 year old could design things LOL. I've seen one do it!

Yeah I kept my party size to 2 (half-elf sorcerer/thief Avencil, and half-elf cleric/paladin Paranon) so I could max them out at the end of the game. I think they ended at levels 16/15, and 16/14 respectively. I also used a joinable NPC as a pack mule. You can remove them from your party to save the XP for yourself, and they will stay where you left them as long as you don't transition to another a level. When you're ready to move on, just add them back to your party. They're like a bag of holding! Very useful for all those items!

The control undead will help you lots with the unturnable Mohrgs, and with the even more powerful Ravenants. Destruction for your Cleric is also very handy against magic resistant drow.

Yes, the ToEE combat system is certainly the most true to the 3.0 rules. Lots of good stuff there. :yum: Loved the 5 foot step and the proper determination of attacks of opportunity. I also think that the lack of attacks of opportunity on enemies in PoR is odd, yet they make them consistently on you. When emenies panic and run, you always get attacks of opportunities, but mid battle they seem few and far between. What's up with that?

Unfortunately, brain-dead combat systems seem to be the way of the future. :sleep: D&D Online is just a little better than the diablo-esqe WoW clickfest and hotkeying. But nowhere near the 3.5 combat turn-based rules. For some reason simplistic kindergarten R/T combat is all we see on the horizon. :bang:

I think the ease of moding NWN is a virtue. That allows anyone with a creative idea for an adventure to share it with the rest of us. The number of community created adventures is staggeringly HUGE! :jawdrop:

Brain dead combat systems (BDCS).... Oh man you are so right. Funny you mentioned DDO - its the only MMO i've ever considered because you have some control. But yes, the 3.5 thing is joke. I can't stomach the fee anyway though so Im out.

I think the BDCS issue has something to do with the attitude of the hard core RPG'er. They don't like twitch games generally. I've always played FPS's and I like the action. That's why I need a party if I'm pulled away from the direct control.

Hey NWN2 dumped the tile system - at least for the outdoor areas. I'm looking forward to that one - hopefully the mod community will be as strong.

So what about Gothic and Morrowind? I'm a huge Gothic fan. Morrowind was great too but Gothic 2 was amazing.

I think I've asked you before to open threads to discuss multiple OTHER games than PoR in the appropriate forum we have for this, and not here? This thread started with PoR, but the last half of it has nothing to do with it.

That's an overstatement. Each post (except for the last) has at least a paragraph or two about RoMD.

[And 5 about other games. Is it too much to ask to use another forum we provide for that? -Tal]

[ March 08, 2006, 23:04: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

Part of the point of discussing the other games was to compare the combat systems - such as ToEE vs. POR2, and further, how the various games relate in terms of party control vs. single character, realtime vs. turn based etc. Some of it is offtopic but alot of it is related.

But you're the boss so back to POR2.

SPOILER WARNING...
I ran into a very difficult battle last night in the South East corner of the 4th Cellar. There is a circle of death radiating out of a crypt and once you kill a Revenant in the room you are assaulted and outflanked by an Arch Lich, two standard Lich's and a good half dozen or so Mhorgs.

I was well on my way to losing so I reloaded and ended up pretty much on my way into the abyss again. I did waste a bunch of combat rounds trying to figure out the Crypt to see if it was a trigger or something but apparently you just have to duke it out. Trouble is, that's a lot of Lich to deal with - 3 cones of cold per round until I can get my fighters in a position for an attack of opportunity during their cast. Ouch. To top that off, 3 Lichs generally mean 3 Phylacteries to find to destroy their essence no? Otherwise I'll have to fight this hard battle every single time I'm in this region right? Yikes. I need to backtrack to some areas I skipped so I'm guaranteed to be here again...

Yes, and there's no problem with that, but if that was your point all along, the entire thread should be in the Dragons Not Required forum. That's how it works. If you want to discuss the game the forum is about, you do it here. If you want to discuss more than one game at the same time, you do it in the DNR forum.

I can move this thread there and you can discuss any other RPGs you want alongside PoR. Let me know.

SPOILERS BELOW .......


Yes that room was a huge challenge! But if I remember correctly my Cleric/Paladin was able to turn those lichs. I may be mistaken, but those lichs that spawn outside the door and trap you inside don't all have phylacteries. Control undead some of the Mohrgs, turn some of the lichs, have the Mohrgs fight the others, and then concentrate your melee attacks on the lichs. There's some luck involved if I remember correctly....

BTW, one of the best weapons in the game is your reward!

More games should utilize the Lich. They are a subquest all on their own.

I like the idea of yet another power weapon, but have you noticed you get a ton of epic stuff in this game? The +6 Strength +10 to hit +10 Damage 5% Arcane Failure Holy Flame Thrower of Justice? LOL ;) I'll take it!

Yep, it gets amazingly over the top. LOL. After a while you start packing away +4 weapons because of all the better stuff you find.... But there are enemies that actually are hard to beat without the uber weapons, so you're not totally overpowered.

I think the weapon in this particular crypt has some fantastic stat bonuses and to hit bonuses as well.

I have no doubt. I'm literally tossing away +2 plate mail and leather armour and any weapon under a +3. My dwarf has the -267 pound ring but I've still got so many magic items I'm still leaving a trail.

I used to leave map markers saying "huge treasure dump here..." or "get rich quick here" LOL. Now I don't bother.

Those Lich's are goin' down tonight ;)

LOL. Yeah, after a while the encumbrance reducing items are still not enough to keep everything you might use.

I recommend picking up an NPC just as a pack mule. That way you don't have to decide what to keep and what to discard. Unlike BG, over-encumbrance only matters in combat, there's no movement restrictions otherwise.

Only add the NPC to your party when you want to store stuff, then remove him while you go exploring. Before you transition to another area, go back to him and have him rejoin, otherwise he return's to Nottle's (or wherever) minus all the stuff, and none the richer. Go figure. :rolleyes:

I REALLY dislike choosing between inventory items because of encumbrance. This approach makes it so you don't have to decide on what to lose permanently. Except for backtracking to the mule, it's less of a hassle. Of course, drop and forget is the easiest, until you find out you actually needed it. :eek:

[ March 10, 2006, 00:27: Message edited by: Thrasher91604 ]

I have a full party - so at this point assigning one as a pack mule would weaken me significantly. Nice thought though LOL!

You won't BELIEVE what happened to me last night :(

Corrupt save game. I lost the whole 4th cellar. I don't know how but I did. I had reloaded it the night before (its the big Lich battle) and it worked but then I quit while in combat - I wonder if some bug got me trying to quit during combat. It might have something to do with that radiating Circle of Death in the tomb. I'll have to be careful now - I've got 6 save games for the 4th cellar this time. Bummer though.

So in aggrevation I want NORTH this time. I ran into that combat segment with the Drow - all 16 of them! 12 high Spell Resistence Freth Archers, 2 assassins, 2 High Priest. Damn. I lost the first time badly - they can fire into the doorway from two crossfire angles making it extremely difficult to protect spell casters. Then I developed a fall back strategy into a room 2 doors back. That eliminated the crossfire and forced them into the outer doorway. Fireball time, then I sent in the fighters. By that point the Priests were trying in vain to heal the Drow. Literally 45 minutes later I had defeated them. That was the second hardest battle in the game.

BTW, I love my new Cleric spell Destruction! What a riot! I only wish the game left a scorch mark on the ground afterwords. I kept saying "CYA!" to every Drow I vaporized. HA HA HA LOL it hasnt failed yet!

Bugs like that are what really turned people off from this game, I think. I commend you on your perseverance! :) I had a few CTDs but no corruption of save files. I had read on a forum that people had bugs if they saved when animations like spell effects are on screen, so I avoided those situations. Maybe that circle of death animation got you?

I'm a bit paranoid about save games. :rolleyes: After every battle / level up / pre-level up I create a new one. Needless to say this filled up my hard drive quickly. So after each major milestone I'd go back and delete most (except for the other major milestones and level up saves). Is this more tedious than replaying huge chunks of the game? Maybe, but less frustrating for me at least.

Destruction is great! If only it didn't provoke an attack of opportunity like harm ... :) I like flame strike, too. It seems like the higher level clerics have more damaging spells at their disposal than the sorcerers. Another goodie is firestorm. Great as an initial spell inside a room where they can't get out. Keeps those priests and mages from casting spells too. Confusion is still probably the best spell in the game though. Double whammy with confusion and firestorm means good night and good bye. :D

Destruction is ranged (25' + 5'/2 levels) - Harm is Touch. I need to level up again to get Fire Storm - can't wait though - up to 20d6 damage LOL!

Destruction cracks me up. A "save" still does 10d6 damage HA HA HA HA HA HA

"Destruction - this awful spell instantly slays the target and consumes her remains utterly in holy (or unholy) fire." He he he he he....

Destruction is definitely better than harm because (as you pointed out) you can use it at medium range to avoid attacks of opportunity. With my 2 half-elf party I usually only got one destruction off before someone closed to melee range. So in that way it was limited in its effectiveness. But with your larger party you can probably keep your spellcasters safe behind your frontline and casts destruction after destruction! Ye hah! Roasting drow over a holy fire ......

[ March 13, 2006, 19:29: Message edited by: Thrasher91604 ]

I'm about 70% done with the 4th level now. Its hard to make alot a progress because alot of the battles have reached near epic scale - or at least epic length. I ran into the Drow "treasury" last night and ended up getting outflanked - there was an entrance into the area I was defending almost two screens distance to my rear. I knew I was in trouble when a bunch of Drow seemed to be heading in the wrong direction. Luckily I decided to move my best fighter and my Rougue to protect my flank at just the right time. It actually didn't pose much of a problem but the battle took at least a half hour.

I still havent fought that Lich battle again.

LOL. Half hour battles? *whispers* speed utility..... :idea:

Really, it makes it go SO much faster. Just turn the in game speed all the way down to turn-based, and play in super accelerated turn-based mode.

Were you able to confuse the archers and fighters, and finger of death and destruction the priests? I remember that battle went well when snuck up and lured them away, small groups at a time. Loads of tactical fun!

Just beat the Lich battle ;)

Now THAT is a sword LOL. The game kept crashing every time I approached the room, so I finally hit the Ubisoft forums and guess what? Running the game in Win98 compatibility mode TOTALLY solves the instability issues. I can't believe I was living with all these crashes.

Anyway, great battle. I almost lost, but managed to pull it through. My fighters got as low as 4 HP and 10 HP but I won without raising dead.

Sweet. Can't wait to swing this 4D6 greatsword LOL but I need some sleep ;)

Congratulations! Definitely one of the tougher ones especially if you're not prepared with the right spells and a high turning ability. High initiative and movement speed helps a lot to close on the spellcasters (read lichs) with your melee characters before they can get many of their spells off.

Yep, I too had to run in Win98 compatibility mode, otherwise larger battles with lots of animations (like spectres) slowed to crawl and eventually froze, requiring a ctl-alt-del kill task. I still got occasional slow ups but they were less severe. *broken record* The speed utility seemed to reduce the severity of slowups, too.

What is this speed patch you speak of? Just kidding. I like the pace of the game - other than the undead. The Cultists and Drow are very fast!

I'm at the end of the prison, right outside of the door to the final battle (room with the prisoner encased in a hold spell).

This level was HARD. Specifically the Cultist battles last night were pretty tough. Those swarming Brigadiers hit hard and have a ton of HP. Definately fun though - and I now have Fire Storm ;)

Hope I have time to fight that battle tonight!

BTW, I started reading the POR book (fiction). Its surprisingly good - and so far follows the game plot almost perfectly.

I remember the brigadiers being somewhat vulnerable to confusion. Was that the case for you? Nice thing with thieves is that you can backstab constantly a confused creature. It's curtains fairly quickly, especially using the deathspike (75 points damage at a shot)!

The story part of the game really starts to pick up once you've made through the prison level. Enjoy!

BIG SPOILER:

Kind of amusing - techinically the whole 4 level cellar crawl resulted in a failed quest if you think about it. I can't believe how lame the Mystral Weaver was. What a whiner! LOL.

What is deathspike? Tudo is using a +4 shortsword called "Backstabber" and can occasionally cause 50 or 60 but never 75.

BTW I've obtained the "new" Gem and I'm about to put it on the Dragon Spine.

You know - I love this game. Approaching end game and comparing it to Baldurs Gate end game... NO CONTEST. Pool of Radiance is simply better. If it were half as long (or even 1/3 as long) and had the speed patch integrated I bet people would have loved it. I like the pace and epic length of it myself, but maybe I'm wierd. I bet only 2% of anyone who tried POR2 got this far. Oh well. You and I are part of a very "elite" club who finished POR2!!! LOL

Well I'll be there soon anyway ;)

SPOILER .....

Yea, he was sort of pathetic, but I'd imagine after failing to protect Myth Drannor against it's fall and being stupid enough to give the power of the mythal to the current evil leadership, I'd be pretty bummed, too. He really should hand over the reins to someone else.... Yet, he was a bit whiny wasn't he for someone once having great power?

The "Deathspike, Spear of Skewering" is an uber weapon that does something like 3x damage on every hit. :eek: My mage/thief used it for the whole later part of the game. On one of the many visits to Stillwater to see Beriand and Faeril for rumors, we ran into lizard-men and orogs fighting before Beriand and Faeril's door. One of them drops the Deathspike. This happened fairly early for me when I was going through the Dwarven Dungeons. Hopefully the encounter can be triggered later in the game for you! It's a must have item!

For me, I loved it's length, with the speed mod in place and managing the overabundance of items using an NPC mule. Other games that are long (BG I and II come to mind) were a bit tedious for me because of backtracking due to limited inventory space.

I was wondering...

Did you ever solve that Hachaam Selorn quest? The Baneblade Faervian sword you need to return to a crypt in the Halls of Light?

I think I dropped the sword OOPS. I left a huge pile of loot outside near the Ghost's shrine - Norrywaren or whatever her name is. I was trying to get my fighter, ranger and theif to be lightly encoumbered. I hope its still there! :(

Guess what else I think I left there? Deathspike! Now that you describe it I know I had it.

Inventory glut sucks. :bang:

Yep, definitely try to find it. When you return it, you get a little mini quest (and a word of power) to battle for probably the best (or second best) sword in the game. It's kind of a fun tricky battle, too.

Allllriiiiight - I'll look for it tonight. If its another greatsword I have no use for it in my party - and I do have the Greatsword Damonic +99. But - I'm a completist by nature and I'm not scrambling to get POR2 out of the way like I was with Baldur's Gate.

I needed an excuse to revisit the dwarven mines anyway - I left a section incomplete there. I did finally wrap up the Planets Above quest. I had one elusive Planet, the red one, I left on the surface. At least I can teleport around now ;)


EDIT:

Nice new sword +7 Dragonkind eh? Luckily for me Durwyn was still holding the other sword in inventory because my stash was GONE. Can't leave things outside. I checked Nottle just for grins and he didnt have the stuff.

At first I thought Deathspike was lost but as it turns out Gleanna has been using it throughout the game and I had totally forgotten. She only fights melee when opponents are paralyzed or if totally sorrounded so I simply forgot. I'll switch it to Tudo ASAP.

Thanks for the heads up - that should yield some impressive sneak attacks ;)

[ March 17, 2006, 15:46: Message edited by: ToddMcF2002 ]

Is the +7 vs dragonkind sword the one to be returned, or the one you get in the Castle tunnel?

Yep, the deathspike in Tudo's hands should wreak havoc on confused enemies! Fun times! :D

The +7 is in the Castle Passage. I saw Tudo dish out 156HP in one sneak attack last night. :)

I'm in the Pool Cavern. I havent fought anything I just entered the portal, saved the game and quit last night.

I have to say I'm very bummed out that the game is ending. I didnt realize how much I was enjoying it. I loaded up Icewind Dale last night to refresh where I was - just at the start of chapter 2. I fought a few things, got sort of bored and quit. *sigh*.

I'm going to watch the Oblivion drama unfold from the sidelines. I'm expecting some major backlash over framerates so I'm not buying it just yet. I think I'm going to go replay Temple of Elememental Evil. Its the only game I'm enthused about right now. I havent tried a monk or a thief and I'm considering an evil party.

Anyway - I guess I will hesitantly finish Pool of Radiance tonight.

Don't forget to go around and get thanks from all the NPCs after the final boss battle. :roll:

It's not completely over, if you don't mind playing without any storyline. You can export characters to a multiplay game consisting of only yourself, and go in the hardest dungeon in the Castle Corymyr. The battles are just if not more challenging than those near the end of the single player game. The dungeons are auto-generated and there are some sweet new powerful items.

All this talk is making me think about replaying RoMD solo. :eek: Maybe a Cleric / Paladin or Cleric / Monk?

After I finish BGII, I thought I would go on to IWD+HoW. Maybe I'll do Planetscape or Fallout instead.... I also have to play Gothic II, Divine Divinity, Beyond Divinity, and Arcanum, and Elder Scrolls Morrowind: Game of the Year edition. Should keep me busy..... Have you noticed, I'm putting off most of the non-D&D skill-based RPGs for later? ;)