I think it's inevitable that Neverwinter Nights will get the feel of Diablo. It's inevitable. Think about it, persistent world, having to cater to all players at all times? The servers will be mostly dungeons and other places that regenerate monsters, and it will all be one big experience hoard.

It's inevitable.

I strongly hope that's not the case. I compare it to the online games on ten years ago. You have MUDs and MUSHs. MUD were like Diablo players only wanted experience to be more powerful. Thus the vast majority of the MUD player were power gamers.
On the other hand MUSHs were more focused on role-playing. Since you only got XP for role-playing those that did RP well got stronger and those that didn't stayed weak. I hope NWN will follow the MUSH model. With live DMs on site I thank that Diablo-like hacking will not become the norm. More complex plots can be developed and managed by the DMs to provide a better RP experience.
At least that is my hope.

So much is going to depend on the DMs, at worst it could degenerate into a Diablo or even (N)Everquest, at best it could change CRPGs like Amazon changed booksales and Napster changed Music buying.
I think 'Darwinism' will kick in and the best DMs will generate followings and the duff ones will fall by the wayside.

I strongly disagree with you Rakanishu. Yes, there are probably going to be a dozen or more worlds created on the fly for people just to "join" and play in. Those will no doubt be exactly what you speak of, where those servers are up whenever the guy running them is around. Just like a Q3 server or a Diablo 2 IP/Lan game.

Persistant worlds on the other hand will be much different and depending on what that worlds desire is, you will see a wide range of places and things to do.

With Dungeon Masters constantly watching their world, why would it just be filled with regenerating monsters and spawn points? Any server that just has this is missing out on the whole reason for NWN and that is having a DM running the show, telling the tale and taking you on a journey. I don't think any real story telling DM is going to watch a group of players sit around in a cavern waiting for monsters to respawn.

Syl...

Good to see you back Syl!

Heh heh, pardon me, but I guess I lack experience with persistent world servers. Most of what I see is Diablo or Quake like.

But there is another thing, something more insidious. The more popular NWN becomes, the more players of low intelligence there will be, who will only be looking for a quick thrill. As their numbers proliferate, they will be even more prominent than role-players.

As roleplayers form guilds, so too will they, but along the lines of 1337 PKers Club etc etc.

And soon, the momentum of NWN may run out. Persistent DMing will take alot of time and alot of dedication. Real life issues may intrude upon this time. DMs and players will drop out one by one.

And the ranks of the plebeians shall swell further as dretches and nupperibos gate in more of their kind, and we shall drown in their putrid flesh!

True roleplayers shall seek to protect themselves from this reeking molass, and they will form their own communities that will become even more xenophobic and purist over time!

It's all doom!

Well, you make some very good points which is something to consider for any large, Online Persistant World.

That is why I support ALFA so openly because of their system. First is that ALFA screens all applicants, much like that of a job resume. Spelling, grammar and the ability to post a well worded e-mail are tops on the list of qualifications. Role-playing abilities follow after, one of the reasons they ask for one to type in some character history.

Power gamers and lewt d00ds usually cannot be bothered and if they lie and type up the best character application form in the history of ALFA, join the server and run around PKing everyone, they'll simply be removed.

Each ALFA server has 1 Head Dungeon Master and up to 5 slots available for Assistant Dungeon Masters so even when 1 DM isn't online, there is a good chance another will be or soon enough. The mix of Dungeon Masters on one server spanning the world helps with those time zone issues too.

Skullport and Undermountain has myself in EST time and my Assistant DM from Europe. When I'm sleeping, he might be online.

Due to the fact ALFA has a good screening process, you won't have lewt d00ds getting NWN for their birthday and simply signing up to play in the ALFA world the same day.

ALFA is a non profit organization, which means those who have put it together are doing it out of the enjoyment of the game and the ability to share their ideas with players around the world. Money isn't talking here, the values of ALFA are. If you're a lewt d00d or someone who PKs for no reason, ALFA has no contract or ties to that player. They're not paying for the service so giving them the boot will only come to e-mail flames or message board flames.

A small price to pay for a world of role-players.

Syl...

Say, I'd like to create independent DM-ed modules and campaigns for NWN, I'd like them to be recognised by ALFA so that players get to keep their items and experience.

I can't make a stand-alone product so it'd probably won't be publicly released though.

What is ALFA's stand on such matters? I'd be happy to comply with campaign guidelines, as long as they do not impinge on creativity. (Basically I'm trying to run an "out-of-this-world situation, and the rewards should be equally great as well. The thing is the rewards are only for the deserving :p)

From what I understand, it shouldn't be a problem in supplying a created module to be run on an ALFA server, but to create it and run it yourself would have to be looked into. I would suspect that it could be done, but only ALFA players could play the module you've created using their players from the secure character vault as ALFA does not want any out of party players or DMs creating characters with god-like stats, then returning to the ALFA world with those crazy stats.

I'm sure something could be arranged where it would be handled like a "Special Event" or simply put, those modules are supplied to an ALFA server and the full credit is handed to you for its creation.

Syl...

I'm sure something could be arranged where it would be handled like a "Special Event" or simply put, those modules are supplied to an ALFA server and the full credit is handed to you for its creation.

Ah, the sad thing is, I probably won't be able to script the module fully. :(

I would be able to DM a half-scripted campaign, and it would be more satisfying to me also.

but to create it and run it yourself would have to be looked into. I would suspect that it could be done, but only ALFA players could play the module you've created using their players from the secure character vault as ALFA does not want any out of party players or DMs creating characters with god-like stats, then returning to the ALFA world with those crazy stats.

Surely there must be conditions? Testing? Quality control? Magic and money limits? Which parties in ALFA would be looking into these matters?

Do you think it's a good idea anyway?

Well, to be a DM for ALFA you have to apply as one and offer a full time server that is up at least 97%

Your ideas are good, but wouldn't do well with what ALFA wants to create although there are plenty of other NWN communities popping up, perhaps you could work something out with them.

Either that, or the module idea you have you let an ALFA DM run OR apply as an assistant DM for an already existing server. You don't have to supply anything, just help with the server and keep it running smoothly.

What you want to do would best suit an assistant DM.

Syl...

Heh heh, okay. Well thanks anyway! :)

Hi.... well i just think that any one who thinks that NWN is any thing like Diablo is just not thinking like a ture RPGer.... come on you get to play D&D with lot's of people that you may never have the chance to play paper-and-pen D&D with. I just think that Diablo is a game that a 4 year old can beat... but game's like NWN, Icewind Dale, and Baldur's gate will be the one's that are bring new RPGer's in to the game and to a new life for AD&D.

I think Hellfire has some good points. The only problem is that those who play D2 are not real role-players; at best they are power gamers.
I think you are right about BG and the like bringing new players into AD&D they just need to find groups to play table top with.
I'm glad to see that others are RPer first and foremost. I think NWN will help the process along even more.