Could anyone tell me where i can find a good source of information about the capabilities of the various forms that shifter's get? 'm intrigued by the concept, but somewhat put off by the lack of hard info.

Thanks...

Here (http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/game/34934.html)

I looked on SP real quick and didn't see one, so I posted the one on gamefaqs. Hope that helps.

And to warn you be careful with shifter multiclassing, they will almost always get a 20% XP penalty, because when you shift you become that creature's race, which has a different favored class.

[ January 10, 2004, 22:00: Message edited by: fade ]

This is how fade should have created the link: look at the guide for shifters (http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/game/34934.html) . I don't blame you, I probably would have made the link in the same manner you did.

How would you go about making one? What stats would you give it and what levels? What race?

I was considering minimum druid which I think is 5 and then 10 shifter and the rest fighter. Perhaps a dwarf? or a human?

How would you go about it?

Well, watch out when you take a race with stat bonusses/penalties. They disappear when you shift and could lower your stat if it isn't overwritten by the shape. I found this out the hard way with my Elven Druid/Shifter. I take as much and as soon as possible levels in Shifter until I reach dragon shape. Then I continue in Druid for added spellcasting. I put Str, dex and con at ten so as not to have a penalty when it's not overwritten. I put wisdom at max and raise it every chance I have. The rest is put in Int for skill points and Cha.

But there is a guide here at SP. (http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/NWN/index_tips.htm) It's called "Shifter FAQ".

Shifters are a very complex character...good luck.

The guide is great but it has sooo much information to go through.

@Meatdog.

Ok, in your estimation if I was to have more fighter than druid levels do you think that would be ok? I was not overly interested in spellcasting but making the shifted shapes more combat like. I was thinking of dwarf because it gets fighter as the favoured class and also because I like the concept of a shorty shapeshifting.

I was thinking Druid5/Shifter10 (or more?)/Fighterx. What is your verdict?

Well, it doesn't sound so bad except for a stupid bug in the game engine. When you shift, you lose the favoured class of your original shape and get the one from the race shifted to. To avoid getting a xp penalty you should keep your fighter and druid levels within one level of each other. Now I also find it a waste to take Weapon Specialization with a shifter, so there is an easy solution to this, which only requires to "waste" a feat slot, but that is gained back in the long run. Just take Weapon Focus in a melee weapon (unarmed doesn't count as melee weapon somehow (another bug)) and take Champion of Torm levels instead of the fighter levels. It gives you the same number of feats (minus one for prerequisite) and the same choice but minus the Weapon Specialization. And if you're cha is higher then ten, you get some other nice bonusses from the Class. And since Champion of Torm is a prestige class, you don't have to worry about xp penalties.

Thanks Meatdog. What if I was to take Dwarven Defender instead of Champion of Torm?

That would also work. I proposed Champion of Torm since I assumed you took the fighter levels for the extra feats. The DD has some nice features but you have to spend another feat more to get it. But if you're in it for the extra HP and BAB then definitely go for the DD.

Shifters are just plainly cool!

I was thinking of one with mixture of a monk. Like a guy, training in the monastery for a while, but then sees his Abbot or another student torn asunder by a beast. Then he decides that human flesh is just simply too weak to provide means for his adventuring. So he travels into wilderness to learn the way of of shifting. So he takes a few druid levels, which offer a step-stone for his true profession - Shifter.
Kinda more spiritual monk, focusing more on soul and mind (high Wis) instead of body, which is pretty much irrelevant.
I havent figured the stats out yet. And i'll probably spend another month just casualy thinking about it until i perfect the idea.

Then i'll use him to wreak havoc on ALFA :grin:

And to warn you be careful with shifter multiclassing, they will almost always get a 20% XP penalty, because when you shift you become that creature's race, which has a different favored class.
Apparently this is a known bug that will be fixed in the next patch.

In order to get the Dragon SHape how many levels of Shifter do you need? Is it 20 or 17 plus Wisdom 30?

I have decided that Druid5/Shifter 20 or 17/Monk leftovers would be better than a Fighter or Dwarven Defender, but I never know until I do it.

Dragon Shape is an Epic Shifter feat. The requirements are 30WIS and Epic Character Level (21 or better). Those levels don't have to be all in shifter...so yeah, I think 17 would work.

Remember, you have to level up as a Shifter when you have an Epic feat due to you also.

Shifters are like Arcane Archers, lots of planning required.

Hacken Slash. What I want to know is exactly the needs for Dragon Shape. Would level 11 Shifter 5 Druid and 5 Fighter and 30 Wis work? I don't want to get other levels in shifter past the mimimum needed. If I can get Fighter levels and still eventually get Dragon Shapes later then that's fine. I only want the mimimum druid and shifter levels...

OK...Shifters still make my head spin...but as I understand it in order to take the Epic feat of Dragon shape you need 30 WIS and either Wildshape 6 times a day (druid 18+) or Greater Wildshape IV from shifter 11+, not to mention that your character level has to be 21 or better.

11 shifter, 5 druid and 5 fighter should work...but I'm not sure how you could be at 30WIS at that point (needing levels of Epic Wisdom). Just take 11 shifter, 4 fighter (why do you want 5) and the rest druid until you have pumped your wisdom to 30.

I hope this is right...I don't think the guys at Bioware even understand the Shifter...hence the silly XP penalty.

Thanks for the advice. I wanted Shifter11/Druid5/Fighter x. So if I keep getting fighter levels, eventually more than 20 will I be able to get Dragon Shape?

I fiddled with a "character" maker type mod and I remember that I could not even get Undead or Construct Shape without Shifter 15, so I began to wonder...

Basically I want minimum levels of druid-shifter and the rest combat related.

Can the WIS of 30 come from potions and the like or does it have to be your actual WIS score?

Khaz...did you have your wisdom levels high enough? I think the problem that you will run into are making the wis requirements, which do have to be base...not boosted by a potion or an item.

Assuming you set STR, DEX, and CON at 10 each, that will leave you 24 points to spread over INT, WIS, and CHA. If you really want to reach Dragon Form ASAP, you will need to raise WIS as high as you can...even if you start at 19 WIS and add all your bonus points to it when you level up, at Character level 20 you will still only be WIS 24.

You will need to take Epic Wisdom once before you can even take Undead, 3 times before you can take Construct, and 6 times!!! before you can take Dragon. That's 6 epic feats before you can take Dragon Shape...assuming you only take epic levels of Fighter, you'll be able to add to wisdom at L21, L24, L27, L30, L33, and L36...leaving you free to take Dragon shape at L39!!!

Everyway I've looked at it, it seems near impossible to get the Dragon shape...plus if you want a melee strong character you'll likely want to put some attribute points into STR and DEX so you can take feats like Power Attack, Cleave, Dodge and Mobility.

You may be trying the impossible!

Well, Hacken, what you said is not entirely true. He does indeed have to take epic wisdom feats, but he also gets an extra ability point at levels 24, 28, 32, 36 and 40. That means he can still boost his wis with regular points next to the feats. but indeed he will only be able to reach 29 wis this way and will still need at least one extra epic wisdom feat. But if he chooses and epic wisdom feat every time he can, then he might still be getting Dragon Shape at a decent level with his build.

Your right, Meatdog...I totally forgot the additional attribute boosts you can take at level 24, 28, 32 etc.

In fact I ran a character generator (I use "SmartOgre" which is actually a module) and using a human with 10/10/10/14/18/10 I was able to get my WIS to 30 and took Dragon shape at level 30! I took no other Epic Shifter feats, so you would have to go back and pick up Undead and Construct. I ended up Druid (5), Shifter (17) and Fighter (8)...maybe not as many fighter levels as you might want...but you really need the Epic levels in Shifter. You might be able to build it with a few more levels of fighter, but you certainly can't keep the shifter level at 10

The down side is that I can't imagine anyway you could get to level 30 in HotU...you would need to start with a level 20ish character.

Oh well, good luck!

Thanks Hacken Slash, I'll go with Druid5/Shifter17 and some Fighter. :)