I already did a quick test run with a Human Ranger last night to get use of the game play. Tonight I am starting a new game. I plan on leveling the intial character class to level 3. After that I will multi class to a rogue and than to a Mage. I will list all the classes that I have interest in playing a full game of NWN. Since I am not completely fimiliar with the 3E rules (Skills & Feats) I would like some help creating my new character. Please let me know what race, class, skills & feats you recommend and why. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

[ December 07, 2005, 21:50: Message edited by: Abdel - Bhaal Spawn ]

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Poll Results: Help Me Decide on My First Character I will play NWN (10 votes.)

Help Me Decide on My First Character I will play NWN (Choose 1)
* Bard - 0% (0)
* Cleric - 0% (0)
* Druid - 10% (1)
* Figther - 20% (2)
* Monk - 0% (0)
* Paladin - 0% (0)
* Ranger - 20% (2)
* Rogue - 50% (5)

Be careful with multi-classing if you don't want XP penalties.

TAKE THE ROGUE CLASS FIRST. With the first level in rogue you get the most skill points -- that puts everything you need at the 4 level immediately. You may not need to take any additional levels as a rogue.

All classes rule on some way or another. There are no 'Beastmasters' in this game or similar crappy and pointless classes (well, maybe a couple of the prestige classes, but that is irrelevant at this point)

I'd go with 4 rogue/4 fighter or 1monk/7 cleric for the first eight levels.

If you want both rogue and mage, I'd suggest going with something like 4 rogue (STARTING WITH ROGUE)/16 wizard with a high starting INT (16 or 17). Lots and lots of skillpoints.

Here is the character I created last night.
Gender: Male
Race: Elf
Class: Monk
Level: 3
Abilities:
Str:14
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Cha: 10
Feats: Monk Feats, Disarm & Weapon Focus: Kama
Skill:Open Locks 3, Disarm Traps 3, Search 3, Hide 4, Move Silent 4, Lore 4, Persuade 2, (I can't remember the rest right now).

This is what I am thinking of doing. Leveling my Monk to level 5 or 10 and than multiclass to either Mage till level 5 than finish any levels left as a Monk.

If you have any suggestions on how I should level up my character please let me know. Thanks.

[ December 08, 2005, 16:34: Message edited by: Abdel - Bhaal Spawn ]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe as soon as you take anything other than a Monk level, you cannot take Monk levels any more.

You can multiclass all you want with paladin or monk in NWN. In PnP you can't, but NWN doesn't have similiar restrictions.

With a monk, I always prefer to take 4 levels of fighter. So at level 20, your char would be Fighter 4/Monk 16. This pushes up your BAB to 16 giving you an additional round of attack and allows you to take weapon specialization in Kama or Unarmed (your preference). By level 28, your character would be Level 20 Monk/Level 8 Fighter, with improved weapon specialization.

Well, the first thing i notice in your character Abdel, is Disarm combined with Kama. It does not work well. First off, your BAB will not be anything astounding and even further, kama is a small (pretty sure) weapon, making it unsuitable for disarming. NwN thinks disarming is only done with a huge swing at the enemy weapon, instead of some finessed moves with a cool curved weapon such as kama. So there goes that concept :nolike:


So, now you're more into going monk/rogue/wizard or just monk/wizard?
The advantage of having a former build in your case is some sneak attack, thieving skills and uncanny dodge. Sneak attack is quite useful, since you'll want to have many attacks (Kama on Flame ;) ) and not attacked directly (buffed summon/companion-meatshield). Thieving skills could be acquired through Pixie familiar (only losing the ability to set complex traps). Uncanny dodge - it's usefulness depends whether you go for high-dex char with weapon finessable kamas or strenght-based melee. If it's the former, you wont miss it much, if not.... you will :)


Either way, you'll want to wield Kamas, since you can Flame them (huge damage bonus) and cast Greater magic weapon on them, which you prolly wont have to, due to acquiring magical ones on the course of your adventure :)


What levels to take is the major issue. If you want rogue, i suggest 3 levels, spread out.

Wizard you'll mainly want for buffs, so at least level 7 wizard is recommendable, though it's hard to really set a line, because there are useful buffs throughout the spell progression. After wizard lvl7 you miss out on 3 fire damage per hit (from Flame Weapon spell) and lvl5+ spell buffs. You have the grand majority of the ones that aid combat more directly.

Monk is also hard to multiclass. In most cases, you go for either 1 level, or 16+. 6th level perhaps for imp. Knockdown. Or 9th level for improved Evasion. 12th level for Spell Resistance (which does not progress on as you're not leveling in monk levels anymore). At this point you have 22SR (Spell Resistance), which is quite decent, and if your char doesnt have the spell to increase it (and it wont, it's a clerical spell) it's more than you'll get from items (Cloaks with 16 and 20 SR are sold around the world.)
Basicaly, the only good thing about it, is that you at least dont have to worry about unarmed damage.


Trouble with wizard/monks is that both classes are made for pure characters. Both gain power with their class levels. Wizard with spells and Monk with class abilities. A possible multiclass comes at epic levels, when most of their class abilities are achieved. Even then, monk loses one of his greatest strenght - SR against the ones he'll need most against - pure casters. He does have high level wizard spells, and in some areas his spells can be as effective as a pure casters. Then, wizard20/monk20 or wizard20/monk16/fighter4 may be worth it. Still, there's nothing like a totaly dedicated wizard, wreaking havoc with every spell :grin:

Five or ten monk doesn't make much sense. Six monk gets you Improved Knockdown for free and nine gets you a few more bonus monk feats. Twelve monk would also be good.

I'm wondering why wizard? A handful of wizard levels won't do you that much good. A few minor spells which won't penetrate even your average skeleton champ's spell resistance.

I have almost completed Chapter One. It isn't even hard by any means. I guess the game reminds me way too much of the PS2 Baldur's Gate series. That is probably why I don't have any issue playing this game. To me this game would be better played if you would use a controller and actually have your character fight. I have to say that I am surprised that Atari didn't put NWN on PS2 or Xbox. I believe it would be a very high selling game.

Now that I got that off my chest let me tell you a little bit more about where I am.

I am going after the 4th creature. I am trying to finish the moonstone tavern quest. I have already completed the tomb quest. Are there any other quest I should go after? I been using Tomi as my henchmen since he is a thief and I don't have those as skills it helps with those nasty traps doors and needing to open all those locks, etc...

Here is my character
Gender: Female
Race: Human
Class: Monk/Fighter
Level: 4/2
Abilities:
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 10

Skills: Disclipine 5 or 6, Heal 5 or 6, Hide in Shadow 5 or 6, Move Silently 5 or 6, Lore 9, and Presuade 9

Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Focus(Unarmed Combat), Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Combat), Toughness, Called Shot and any feats that a Monk/Fighter would have at level 4/2.


Main Items Equipped: Gaunlets of the Rose +2, Robe of ??? (provides 5 damage resistance), Cloak of Fortafication +1, Boots of Soul +2, Ring of Protection with a 15mm of Yellow Light, Tower Shield +1, Ring of Fortitude +1 and a spike helmet.

Over all how would you rate my character. I am not fimilar with NWN but I am finding this game to be extremely easy, even on the very hard setting.

Good stuff - your character is pretty OK. Interesting is that you are going without any spellcasting power, but that is probably fine given that large chunks of the NWN OC revolve around melee hacking and slashing. A tank type character is really the easiest to play this game with and the thief henchman is the best for ensuring you don't tear your hair out dealing with endless traps and locks.

Just wondering if you ever use the Hide in Shadows and Move Silently skills.

Aye, pretty good. There are a few improvements you could've done, of course, but it doesnt really matter, when you're playing OC, except for the flavour. Recently, i heard of a great example of OC difficulty. This guy played a sorcerer. Thing is, he fought his battles with a greataxe and most of the time he even forgot to buff himself with spells. Not to say about another chap who had another sorcerer, but chose to dual-wield, further decreasing his already crappy AB. Naturaly, he could out-melee dragons easily. :rolleyes:


So, for your character... Stats are good, the robe is called Robe of the Old Order iirc, and the feats are 50/50 OK. Unless you're playing without SoU installed, Dodge and Mobility (followed by Spring attack later on) are a good choice. I havent seen Tumble skill maxed, so i'll presume you dont have access to it. If you did, Dodge-Mobility-Spring Attack feat chain is utterly useless.
Called shot is not generaly recommended for Monks (even with fighter levels) because of their lower AB. But, you're playing OC, so you should have fun with it. Note that you can also use it on ranged weapons. So you might want to use Called Shot: Arms with a sling/crossbow before you close in on enemies. You dont waste much anyway, if you miss, those meager d4 or d10 damage. Called shot penalities are comulative and last for 4 rounds.


Remind me, what the heck are you doing with a tower shield, playing an unarmed attack monk?!

I equpped the tower shield for the extra AC bonus. Since I go unarmed I get all my attacks and get a +4 to my AC to boot. Not bad if you ask me.

It's good to see something non-standard work for you. I always appreciate original characters. I thought I would give you some advice with a ranger/rogue/wizard character but it looks like you're more into monks now, so... ;)

Abdel, just check out. Monk loses his unarmed combat bonuses by using a shield or armor. You are better off with protection rings to increase your armor class.

Amulets of natural armour are good, too. And they will stuck with rings of protection.

Shivi I don't loose anything. My attack bonus with or without a shield is still +10 or was it +11 for my first attack and my second attack was +8 or was it +7.

As for the AC bonuses if I take my shield off I loose the extra +4 AC bonus the Tower shield provides my character. Which is very helpful early on in the game.

I read some place that if you take one level as a fighter your monk won't receive the penalties for using a shield that they normally would receive. And so far it looks to be true.

I did think about this....

My next 2-3 level I should take n Rogue, but I am not sure if I would get all the skills points rogues get. If I do, I would put all of my skills in open locks, search and disable traps. Let me know what you think?

Not worth it. You already have Evasion and, starting as a monk, you received some extra skill points. Rogue levels are only really good in the beginning and if you aren't getting Evasion from any other source. Perhaps a ranger level would be better and you would get free dual-wielding if without armour. Or do monks get to dual-wield kamas at no penalty?

I had a fighter/monk/ranger/paladin in IWD2 and it was a solid character, even if low-level in each of her classes until later in the game. Or actually later on her advancement path, considering you stop getting XP for kills quite early in IWD2 if you solo.

chevalier I was going to take the rogue level for the disable traps, search, open locks, etc... More or less to get rid of the Henchmen. The only reason why I am really using a monk is for their 12th ability. After that I might take more levels as a fighter to increase my HP or more levels as a rogue to increase my rogue skills, etc...

Using a shield, monks should lose their wisdom AC, level AC, Flurry and those awsome tons of attacks per round. Not amount of multiclassing should allow a monk to bypass these penalities, so it's a bug. Seeing that you have 5 BAB, you definitely shouldnt have 2 attacks per round, so it's cracked and you'll be able to use that large, 19.4 heavy sheet of metal all the time. Good for ya, if not all the esthetic, monk with a tower shield :p

Rogue levels arent really necessary. Disable traps - usualy a reflex save, which you'll have pretty decent with evasion for no damage. Fortitude save, you're covered with fighter's +3 bonus. Will, you have Still mind as well as mind immunity items and a high save. Sneak attack would be the other reason, but with the tactics you're probably playing, you wouldnt get much benefit off it. Oh, and open lock... when you get monk special gloves (Yellow rose, long death,...) you'll bash open all chests easily.

@Chev
Monk still needs all two-weapon fighting feats to be any use with dual kamas. Usually, though, dual kamas is the dex-monk way, since you can stack some serious elemental damage off your gazzilion attacks/round (actually, 10/round)

Yeah the shield thing is a bug I will be damn if I don't use it to my advantage. But the sad part is my computer just started to freak out. And I might of lost my character, one who I been enjoying every night for about 2 hours.

There is a chance I have to start over (Somthing I really don't want to do). If I do I am thinking of trying something different, like a Rouge/Fighter specializing in Rapier and Daggers or a Monk/Figther specializing in Kama duel wielding.

You can always export your character file and saved game and put them on floppy or CD. Then you just insert them in the right folder when you sort your computer out.

Using weapons is somewhat more rewarding, since you're always qualifying for a newer, better magical weapon of choice. Unarmed advances with level and gloves only.

When I went to load up my game my character and game were no where to be found on my PC. So I started a new game, something I really didn't want to do. But this time around I installed Shadow of the Underdark. I noticed a few more feats, skills and prest. classes. I thought about going for a Bard/Red Dragon Disicple but decided on a Monk for now. I am now level 5 and did some minor modification to my character because of the new skills and feats. I am not sure if I should just play the whole game first as a Monk and than play again and try something completely new. My only problem with games is once I have completed them I tend to restart them over and over and never get the next character(s) I create through them. That is probably why I never finished SoA more than once or BG. So should I stop now and try my Bard/RDD idea before I finish as a Monk or should I just go ahead with my Monk character?

[ December 27, 2005, 21:11: Message edited by: Abdel - Bhaal Spawn ]

Well, it all depends on whether you want to play as a RDD / Bard or as a Monk.....

My choice would be the RDD, because that is something new that you will never have played with before.

I believe I will start a new game with a Bard/RDD. Now all I have to do is figure out what to select for skills and feats. Any suggestions since my goal is to become a RDD.

Once again, depends on what sort of RDD. Do you want to be a melee warrior, a ranged specialist, a bardlike support character.......

A very old and wise member of these forums once wrote an extensive guide for creating a Bard / Fighter / RDD Character. Real top notch stuff...practically brilliant. Let me see if I can find it for you...

Oh, yeah...here it is! (http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/NWN/index_tips.php) ;)

The Bard / Fighter / RDD guide is a useful document but I tried to create my own character using the information that that excellent guide provided. I don't think there is any fun in directly copying someone else's character, ultimate thought it may be. I gave my Bard / Fighter / RDD a lot more Bard levels than recommended, just to make it a bit more 'rounded'.

Could a character be a Sorcerer/RDD/Palemaster?

Yeah, but it'd be a bit crap. The only class really worth basing a Pale Master on is wizard as the class gives you spells per day but no new spells or improvements based on caster level. Without the spells the benefits arent worth all those levels unless you're going for some super armoured critical immune duelling build. The RDD will give you natural armour aplenty and, of course, all those cool stat boosts, so stick with that, your spellcasting class and whatever fighing class you like.

Up to you, of course, but I wouldnt recommend it.

I've never heard of anyone around here making the Pale Master work at all. The most popular prestige classes seem to be Shadowdancer, RDD, Weaponmaster, Blackguard, and Arcane Archer. Nobody ever seems to go for Pale Master or Harper Scout.

Check this thread about the PM (http://www.sorcerers.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/6/1336.html).

I played the OC with a Bard/Barbarian/RDD this is a nice change from the Fighter class. I also picked a Half Orc for a giggle! :lol:

The problem with Pale Master is how badly it thrashes your spellcasting. However, I've read about some funky builds combining barbarian levels for a damage resistant fighter mage type with handy immunities. They need to be high level to take full advantage of automatic still spell feats and the like, though, and frankly if you want a magic buffed fighter in NWN, why not just take a cleric?

I just went through and rebuilt what I had played with before. A PURE Wizard receives spells a bit quicker than an alternating Wizard/PM. However, the Wizard/PM is casting 9th level spells at 21st level (Wiz 12/PM 9), which isn't too bad. By the time you've finished levling up, the Wizard(12)/PM(28) ends up with EXACTLY the same number of spells castable per day, and is fully capable of casting the various Epic Spells. Plus it has a higher Base AC (Boneskin at level PM28 gives +16 AC) and more Hit Points (D6 instead of D4 for 28PM levels). Feats are a bit different, certainly. And the Pure Wizard could get away with writing almost NO scrolls by the end, because he continues to get 2 free spells every single level through 40. But, if you're willing to develop your spell casting a bit more slowly, you will ultimately have a spellcaster with several benefits from the PM class.By Xindell in the thread linked above.


Critical immunity is a huge bonus and all that AC&HP dont hurt either. Sounds too good to be true.
In exchange, you're sacrificing a LOT of caster levels, affecting spell duration, damage, Spell resistance checks. You're essentialy left with Bigby's spells. Wow.

So, the conclusion: Nothing's changed, pale masters still suck for the most part :nolike:


I have seen some PvP Pale masters though. Probably taken in epic levels solely for AC and critical/hold/paralyse/stun immunity.


@Will
Arcanetype/PM/barbarian?
Sounds weird to me ;)
I wonder why barbarian, though, he needs a lot of class levels to get damage resistance, while dwarven defender needs only BAB+7, 13dex and dodge feat for higher DR. Probably done with first lvl20 barbarian and then 5 bard or some such, with pale master following.
On the other hand, getting to +7BAB would take either bard10 or bard8/PM2, to still achieve 17BAB at lvl20. So, 3 less BAB, more DR, defensive stance vs. Rage, up to 60 less HP, but way more spells (Wounding wispers come to mind).
More or less a matter of choice, BAB and HP do acount a lot.

Yeah, it was a level 40 build I read about on the bioware forums, I think. Not my idea, but it sounded fun and different. They went with wizard to get all the spells in order to buff on top of the barb's rage and damage resistance. Still, I like unusual builds and it sounded a fun character to roleplay as a freaky witchdoctor/shaman type :D