I just noticed in the NWN FAQ that they're using the Standard Point Buy system from 3rd Ed. for the ability scores. I guess we won't be seeing the high scores we're used to from BG, BG2 and IWD! :)

For those that don't know here's how it works (at least in the DM Guide). All stats start at 8 and you have 25 points to spread out among them. Up to 14 it's a 1 for 1 relationship; after that its 2 for 1.

The thing you have to remember is that stats in 3E mean more at a lower level then in 2E. When did a 11 STR do anything in 2E in 3E you get a +1! a DEX of 13 means nothing in 2E but give you a +2 to AC and reaction in 3E. For example let's look at my 3E ranger to see how 3E match up with 2E.

Stat 3E bonus 2E
STR 14 +2 18
DEX 13 +2 16
CON 13 +2 16
INT 10 +0 10
WIS 13 +2 14
CHR 10 +0 10

Not bad stats for 2E? I would be happy.

Oh, I wasn't saying that was necessarily a bad thing... Just different. You also get to increase an ability score by one every 4 levels which is nice. Spell casters do need a 19 in their corresponding ability score in order to cast the level 9 spells though (ability score needed is 10+spell level).

Speaking about the core rules of course; I don't know how much NWN will implement...

I hope you plan on increasing your wisdom by one so you can cast your 4th level Ranger spells! :)

[This message has been edited by Blackthorne TA (edited January 23, 2001).]

Uh... a 13 is not a +2 mod...

10-11= +0
12-13= +1
14-15= +2
etc...

Unless my core texts are somehow extremely misprinted...

Amon-Ra

As I understand it the jury's still out on whether ALFA will incorporate 25pts or 28pts or even something else.
Has anybody played much 3rd edition to say if stats are really less important?

Amon-Ra, I stand corrected. I messed that up for some reason. But still 3E stats are lower better. I looked at the mod on my sheet and blanked on the fact that I've uped some of those 13 to 14 now that I'm 8th level.
In reference to the 'Do stats matter?' yes they do, but lower stats mean more. I takes a little getting use to but monster also have the advantages of low stat improvement. I learned that the first time a orc cleaved my character!

Voltric: it's all good.
Erran: yes I have, and lower stats are worth alot more. A 3E 14 is worth much more than a 2E 14. Thus a base 8, +25/+28 is fine.

Consider a fighter at +28:

16 Strength
12 Dexterity
16 Constitution
10 Intelligence
10 Wisdom
8 Charisma

Not bad at all.
+3 to hit, +3 to damage
+1 dodge to AC
+3 hp/level
avg int.
avg wis.
-1 charisma... (travel with a good looking female, and let her buy everything)

Amon-Ra

I play 3rd ed. D&D with Amon-Ra and I have to agree. A 16 (+3) in any stat is pretty damn good. I like the equal opportunity better than the 2nd ed. stats. What was with the extraordimary strength? That was pretty lame. My Sorcerer has a 16 in Con; therefore, he gets 1d4 + 3 HP every level.

Can you choose the character you want? If someone wanted to play....Say, a paladin, for instance :D - Can you play one? Or do you have to make a pc based on what you roll?

I haven't seen any of the 3ed rules, so I have no clue - I'm thinking maybe I should buy them.

~Bel

Well, from what I understand, there will be no "roll"; just the point buy I outlined at the top.

As for minimum stats for a Paladin, I'm not sure there are any in 3rd Ed. I'd have to check... If nobody responds before tonight, I'll take a look and let you know...

Thanks BTA! Like I said...I have no clue about the 3ed and the changes...I was still thinking from the racial and class minimums point o' view.

I am definitely getting into the the NWN hype...Especially ALFA...It sounds fun!

If you want a sneaky peek of what your character might be like under 3rd edition, check out www.wizards.com (http://www.wizards.com) then electronic media then master tools. A 10 Mb download alows you to roll all the major classes. Keep your points to 25. A 16 in 3rd ed. is ~ an 18 in 2nd (I said approx. before all the rules lawyers pounce on my back!)

OK Bel here's the scoop (according to the 3rd Ed rules):

No class or ability score restrictions, but charisma and wisdom are very important.

You need a wisdom score of 10 + the spell level to cast a given spell (Paladin spells go up to 4th level). The Difficulty Class for the spell (how hard it is to make a save against it) depends on your wisdom modifier as well.

Your charisma modifier determines the strength of many of your special abilities:

How many hit points you can heal or harm per day using your Lay on Hands ability.

Your attack roll for your Smite Evil ability.

How many times a day you can use your Turn Undead ability.

Hope that helps! :)

Thanks BTA! It sounds like the ability score have a closer corrolation with the characters abilities in 3ed...That's pretty nice.

I think I'm going to have to invest in the books...It sounds like the changes made were pretty good! It sounds tougher, but more realistic.

Well, if you don't mind online book buying then support your local Sorcerer by buying through here:
www.sorcerers.net/Books/index_man.htm (http://www.sorcerers.net/Books/index_man.htm)

You'll need to click on each of the books that you want from there so Sorcerer gets the credit...

Anything to help the cause! Thanks BTA!

Yea, thanks to both of you. ;)

I placed the order this mrning via the sorcerer link...I'll have to remember to do that whenever I buy something on Amazon...

Any time you're not buying books, or buying books that I don't have direct links to, simply click on any of the amazon.com or co.uk (if you're from GB) ads on the site. They'll all take you to the front pages of those stores and you'll be shopping same as usual, the only difference being I'll get some credit for it.
Thanks.

I hope you plan on getting all three core-rulebooks. It is possible to play with only the PHB, but quite difficult. All the books are definately worth it.

does this mean i don't have to sit for hours endlessly re-rolling to get the highest possible points? yay, me like

Yup, it means we all start off from a more or less level playing field, knowing you won't meet another player who spent 24 hrs rolling 6 x 18. Instead, you can spend hours figuring out what skills and feats are most appropriate for your character!

Good. I love equal opportunity. I gives those of us who don't power game (No offense intended) a better experience at actual Role-playing and tactitioning.

3ed book ordering update:
Man! Amazon must have seriously cut their staff after the holidays...I remember getting my order 1-3 days after ordering around Christmas.

I ordered these books last Wednesday and they're still not here! I should have just gone to the local game shop...Would've had them by now. Oh well

That's interesting... My order came a day or so earlier than expected; I was very satified with their service.

That's what I mean...I'm usually impressed with their quick shipment!

It's just been a huge lag.

Hey Talutain,
Do you know of any book retailers on the web from Australia?

Masj

This thread is being lost with each passing post...

Masj, not a one. I don't think there are any major book retailers from Australia online. Sorry.

Thread?
What thread?
:D

Amon-Ra

Ok,lets see if i can somewhat steer this thread back on course...i downloaded the char generator from WotC. It's rather a nice program. What I did was create several high-level chars. Are all the abilities/stats/skills, etc. correct and complete by the 3rd addtion rules? Including level enhancement? I assume so but not sure if the demo version included everything.

Also i wanted to see how the point-buy system worked. 25 is default, correct?

I extremely like the level type of playing field and the lack of super-chars who start with all stats between 16-18.

Yup, its 'official', it's actualy a later version of the CD rom character generator you get free with the 3rd edition phb.
Since Bioware are still working on the NWN engine no-one can be sure if/how all the skills will be incorporated.
25 pts is the likely default value for ALFA but as has been noted earlier on this thread a 3rd edition '16' strength gives you +3 to hit.

Erran: You're saying that there is a better character creater version out? I've been waiting for that. The demo wans't bad at all, it just left a little to be desired...

There is a patch for the demo on the WotC website. It fixes some problem and add some more features, but the full tool set is not out yet to the best of my knowledge.

Latest patch is version 1.2. Considering it's free I think it's damn good value. If you want more info buy the book(s)- see above. There's one rumour that when they come to reprint them they are going to hike the price.

Oh, I know that the generator is awesome. I have all the books already, I just love using the generator because it is so much faster. I like all the features is has on is. It makes it much easier to deal with leveling up and other things of the sort.

I guess what I meant to say was that I just couldn't wait for the full version to come out.

Latest from ALFA suggests they are thinking about 4d6 and drop one die BUT you only get one chance to roll!

I think I like the 25 points better. If we have a random roll some people will have higher scores than others. I can see people killing off characters with low rolls, so they can try again. Let's keep it all on one level.

I'm with you on that - I liked that kind of system in Torment. Constantly rerolling does get irritating and everyone having 18 points ruins the realism.

I'm also with the point buying system. It gives all an equal opportunity.
And I think a human sorcerer ( :))with
str 10 (+0)
dex 14 (+2)
con 14 (+2)
int 11 (+0)
wis 8 (-1)
cha 15 (+2)
is certainly not bad at all...

Magnus