This is my question. If you were playing a game with good graphic's and a great story line would you want the veiw 1/3(like in BG) or would you want it in first person(were you never see your self)?

To be honest I would have to say I need to see the whole party. I just moving around the map was a little simpler. Going diagonally can get on one's nerves fairly quickly.

1/3 view. I always get very disoriented in big open areas. A good reason for me not to play any of the recent MMORPGs. :p
For some reason I like first person shooters though...

Huh...1/3 eh. I've always refered to it as 3/4. Woops. Have to remember that.

Anyway, I definately prefer 1/3 view. In fact, it's a must. I will not play first person except in shooters. In fact, I've been pretty set into the look of BG and Arcanum and whatnot for an RPG all the way back to the days of Zelda. That's one of the few things I really have to have to get into an RPG. Great story or not, first person sucks for a CRPG.

It's called an isometric view.

IMO if the game involves you being in a party of players then it's definitely better than first person.


[This message has been edited by Mirkwood (edited November 06, 2001).]

Isometric view, all the way. It's the only option possible for controlling a group of people (unless you have the illogical rule that they all stay in one straight line, as in Might & Magic), and when controlling one person you are at a disadvantage having to control things through the mouse/keyboard instead of moving exactly where you want to, so seeing all the surroundings balances that disadvantage. Also if the game is done as first person it's much harder to know your character's exact position, something that again doesn't match real life.

First person is cool but very hard to write and then the graphics wouldn't be as good I suppose. 3rd person and RPG are almost two things that cannot be seperated. When the game is really good, I don't need to play first person however it would be cool... But it would be chaotic for when you are the main fighter you are hacking and slashing someone and you can't see the npc-mage casting a spell behind you :)

first person with a party sucks! anyone ever play the space hulk games? while you are trying to save one marine, another 3 are getting whammyed by genestealers! being able to see whole party at once gives me a much more 'in control' feeling

[first person in games where you are the only person is ok though, cos you only have to concentrate on your character, so don't have to keep switching]

[This message has been edited by Spudsquisher (edited November 06, 2001).]

I think Arcanum is 1/3 and BG is 3/4.
But I would definitely choose 3/4 cause a first person rpg is completely wrong. Imagine that you're kicking a kobold's ass but you can't a kobold shaman summon a pit fiend behind you. You'll get your ass kicked literally with FPRPG.

If BG is 1/3 and Arcanum is 3/4 then I like both of those equally. I really DON'T like 1st person- it's a big reason I didn't finish Black & White even though it had great graphics etc.

Depends on the game i'm playing really ... for RPGs i like the 1/3 view. For others like Operation Flashpoint i so prefer the 1st person view as it offers a level of realism...

Isometric view for a game with a party. The Might and Magic series used the first person and it was ok. I liked it better in Daggerfall because there was no party.

Actually I'd choose NEITHER.

You probably never played Soulbringer - that's the view I want. I really can't describe it, my vocabulary lacks of words. Anyway, it is 3D game, but it is not 1st person view.
I also like an AI camera following as was put in Anachronox (not lame Tomb Raider camera). It is also 3D game, but not 1st person.

Ultima 9 was kind of like that. It is pretty cool, especially with zooming in and out.
Zoom control would be something that I would like to see in isometric games.

Might and Magic clearly have the best way of playing (1st person CRPG). It's cooool.

I agree that for controlling a party, 3rd person is easier, whether 3D or isometric - and it's what I'm used to. However, for one-character games (Are System Shock and Deus Ex RPGs or FPS games?) the first person perspective gives greater immersion, and also stops you looking at the limited avatar and saying "That's not what I want my character to look like". Of course, the two games I mentioned are FPS/RPG hybrids, and some RPGers may not want that.

I prefer first person if it's done in such a way that you don't feel like your vision is being cut off at the edges. Just feels more realistic.

You're right it's not practical when controlling a party, but I really don't like having total control over a party anyway.

In a 1st person CRPG it is easier to feel that you in fact are the character in stead of just controlling it like some superior higher being.

That's true, but 1st person changes the game into a Quake3-like game I'm afraid. And it will spoil the graphics.

I think an isometric view is far better than a first person one. Granted, the Might and Magic series (which I like more than BG) uses a first person view, but that game focuses on hacking through horder of monsters with the plot as necessary evil. Much easier trying to control things in an isometric view, ever tried to play a strategy game in first person? I'd prefer a fully rotatable and zoomable 3d view though (won't neverwinter night be like that?)

Spudsquisher: Obviously you never got the idea with Space Hulk. You are supposed to pause the game, give orders to the terminators in pause screen (much like in BG), unpause the game, pick *one* of the terminators and control him, then pause the game again etc. Obviously, trying desperately to control five men, each of which have their own view screen, when hordes of aliens assault them from all sides is a bad idea. Don't mock a good game just because you couldn't play it. (Neither could I actually, but that was because the game was really hard, not controlling your men.)

The whole point about RPG is taking the role of a fantasy person and to be that one. In BG or IWD it doesn't feel like I am that person, but more like controlling it as in a strategy game. In Might and Magic, I can't just tell the person to go over there and do some magic or whatever. I have to do it myself. It's more RPGic that way. ;)

I often try to imagine walking around with the group as a kind of ghostly character. Trying to feel how it would be with sounds, smells, feelings and all. This is easier when I have an isometric view to zoom in on in my imagination. If I could just rotate the screen I would be pleased.

So what if your party members said no to your comapnd. Every one here I think knows that when you play BG1 you tell the other party members what to do and they do it just like you would. But what if they had their own thoughts. Like when you say go pick up that sward they could tell you no. You could better reasion to kill them, hehehe. Think about it. If you were evil then you could justify yourself better, "He said 'No' to me! Thats why I killed him!" That would be better I think. What do all you think?

I don't like party members with their own ideas of doing things. Because inveritably, the PC's way of doing thigs will always be the stupid way of doing things. It's not that most of the time they have different ideas about what to do and what not to do than you do. After all, their AI likely wouldn't be that complex, unless you ordered a lawful good character to rob the orphanage or kill the Paladin or it was something specifically scripted to a situation. It more boils down to "why in the nine hells is he attacking the druid while I'm surrounded by fighters" or "why in he walking through the lava pool just to get to the other side?" That's the main problem with party members that for the most part are independent thinkers.

First person is possible... But then you should play Solo.

Well My opinion has already been said.

IMO First person vews and Parties dont mix.
but then again I prefer statagy and never figered out and form of FPS so I may be a little off from objective here.

Headbanger: How can you play anything else but solo in 1st person? So in Might and Magic you have four or up to five in M&M 8, but they coorporate as one except from when attacking or wielding magic.

[This message has been edited by Mollusken (edited November 09, 2001).]

This is an D&D forum so I'm looking at this through D&D glasses. 1st person sucks when you play in a party for you can't see the other party-members. Playing solo from first person a more poosible thing but a D&D game where you can play solo only will never be made... So let's just stay on 3rd person... When we wanna play 1st perosn we can alsways download the Quake 3 demo.