I posted this in the alley due to my expectations of angry replies.

Simply this.

The action, graphics and general direction of the fight scenes in Charlies Angels Full throttle was FAR FAR FAR superior to that of Matrix Reloaded.
The wrap around shots were clearer, the bullet time moves were cordinated (matrix had different people moving at different speeds seemingly!), the sound quality was better and, unlike the matrix the punches and kicks looked like they really contacted.

To be honest, i believe that if i were a film studies student looking back on these two films in 50 years time i would have made an educated guess that Matrix reloaded was made at least 2 or 3 years prior to Full throttle.

Please comment on my opinion. But only if you have seen both movies.

LoL

Full Throttle had women in bikinis. Sure as hell all male members of this society will prefer FT to Matrix. Get a grip, man.

women in bikinis No arguments there.

The entire comparasion in this department is only possible because CA is a cheap knockoff of the brilliance of John Gaeta. So no dice there.

Besides, Matrix has women in latex

Trinity just looks strange. Furthermore a bullet moves at around 1000km/h, this means that to dodge one of those things at 20m you would need to move pretty fast, what really gets me in these movies is that the actors move at the same speed as the bullets, this means that when neo dodges them he is moving at over 1000km/h. Interesting fact no?

Matrix has *a* woman in latex. T'least I didn't get a glimpse of much anything else than Trinity. That Morpheus'-former-lover-woman wasn't exactly in latex afterall.

Still, to stay in the topic, I've not seen Full Throttle yet. But at least in the few trailers I've seen, the fight-scene animations are horrible. Matrix had far better screen-captures (with the good zoom in/out camera-angles), far more fluent animations, and a far better backgroundstory/plot to warrant the crazy and impossible moves in it. This is my initial opinion, I'll offer more when I get to watch this movie, probably tomorrow.

Edit: @ raistilin

The Desert Eagle .50 the agents mostly use in the movie has an initial bullet-speed of ~500m/s, amounting to a total of 1800km/h. That's twice as fast as you said. But don't forget that Matrix is a system unlike this "real world" we live in. As directly proven in Animatrix, the bending of rules does not only apply to gravity, strength and speed, but to time as well. Trinity and Morpheus have superhuman reactions and speed compared to normal, which obviously catches up to this seemingly unimaginably great speed a bullet would have. Of course, this isn't enough for them to help survive a bullet-rain, but that was said only to point out that even while Neo is not actively showing off (with the cool computer-effects blazing in the background), he is still able to move with such speeds (/slow time if you will, same thing) that *he* can in fact compete -and win- against a bullet. That is, assuming he doesn't just want to show his hand and stop them in the air. :D

Still the scene in Reloaded where Trinity falls down with two agents falling after her, shooting at her in abandon, does look strange to me as well. How can trinity clearly fall 2-3 floors down (some 10-13 meters to be exact) before a bullet that was fired prior to starting the floor-count would reach her. This would mean that because of the initial speed of the bullet being the same as Trinity's, being fired from a falling weapon in a falling agent's hand and all, the speed of the bullet at that time would be those 10-13 meters per second. Where did the rest of the 490 meters disappear off to?

I realise that some scenes need to be worked to a compromise, as either the bullets move too fast, or the people too slow. But if I really were to be one absolutely searching for things to whine about, this is something I would cling on to. Now, back to the topic.

[ July 09, 2003, 15:22: Message edited by: Foradasthar ]

Its a realative thing-
If neo was to doge a bullet, but we saw it in realtime, it would look like he just reappered somewhere out of the bullets path, that's how fast he moves. But for the added dramatical effect and coolness, we see it in slow-motion.

Hmmm...latex versus bikinis...let the battle between the two commence...

:D

Well now I've seen it, Full Throttle I mean. There was nothing near the epic feeling and visual candy you see in Matrix there. Unlike in both of the Matrix movies, there was not an ounce of philosophising or brainwork required for this movie. And the fights had far too many close-up shots, making it feel like they had to shoot the hits separately because the actors couldn't move convincingly enough. Also, with the exception of Lucy Liu (which was, even for my weak spot for asians, the least attractive in the first movie), the angels were greasy and wrinkled. That is to say, oldish and even downright ugly in some of the shots. I'm not saying I'd like to see some 20-yearold teen-dreams in these movies, just that wrinkles and lousy makeup that makes the actors seem 50 years old, isn't good either.

Foradasthar: No, it's womEN. Didn't you know that Persephone's dress is made out of white latex? :D

philosophsing and brainwork? Where, might i ask, were either of those in Matrix? Nowhere! Oh yeah sure it seems clever to a brainwashed popcorn munching moron. But the endless mindnumbing babble that they spew in that film makes no sense. They simply say it because they think they are clever. Matrix was a worrk of genius. Reloaded has ruined it. Totally awful, took itself to seriously and showed what pompous writers, directers, and copious amounts of weed can do to a movie.


Charlie's angels, had no plot, not really much good acting, apart from john cleese and matt le blanc. But the action sequences were very proffesional and fun. I swear that the fight scene in relaoded between Neo and that golden monk guy on the wooden tables was the most boring unexciting fight scene i have EVER scene.

I can't believe that people actually thought that movie was good.

My dear Daragorn, I can see that your devotion is lacking...

The scene between Neo and Seraph was not meant to be an action/fight scene in the first place, but rather, be there to show us what the Seraph is capable of and to act as a preliminary for the following scenes in the hallways and with the otracle.

Sir Dargorn, while I agree that Reloaded can't be compared with the superior quality of the first Matrix, I would urge you to watch it again a few times and then browse through each episode of Animatrix some 2-3 times as well. I'm quite certain that in Matrix Revolutions you won't see the typical ending of a modern movie.

While Reloaded might have a feel of a questionable quality to it, certainly it can't be denied that Matrix already is a classic *not* because it has a few fights in it, but because its atmosphere is more deep and spiritual than with a casual moneybox-movie. I'm not saying Matrix is another Sixth Sense or somesuch, just that when you know more of it, you know the trouble invested and you know that there is in reality a world deeper than what you would see by only watching the movies once.

@Arabwel

That was latex? Well ok, Persephone certainly beats all three of the Charlie's Angels, that's for sure. With or without latex. :D

Slightly :yot: but, if we're going to try to apply physics to Hollywood :rolleyes: ...

.50 Cal pistol, Jesus. I'm sure the recoil on that thing would be quite brutal. My dad carried US Government .45 Cal when he was a MP in the Army, and he said that you *had* to shoot the thing with two hands. I'm no gun freak(although I do support the 2nd amendment), just a thought.

They're agents, .50 cal is no problem for someone who can punch concrete walls in. :)

Besides, hollywood heroes generally have certain advantages to casual people.

Everyone in this entire thread needs to watch Equilibrium to see bullet dodging in real time.

Hey, I definitely want to see it...

I also want a Desert Eagle, caliber or no caliber :D

I have seen Equilibrium already. It rocked. LOL.

BTW, Persephone's dress is rubber. (Read it somewhere)

No, it's latex. I also read that from somewhere... was the article you read in English or in Estonian? Could be a translational thing...

Equilibrium is what Reloaded wishes it was.
Quite a brilliant the film that.

In English. And it says that it was rubber. Oh well.