I've been meaning to get back to this for a while, but I've been busy the last month or so. What I'd like to do is finally put to rest who is the most popular NPC on this site. What I'd like to do is put forth a few suggestions, and open up some dialog from other people putting forth their suggestions.

From what I have come up with so far, what I am certain I will do is:

SET A TIME LIMIT!!!

What I am certain I will not do:

Set up an elimination style tournament like last time. This is a flawed system as we have seen, as some people have much tougher matchups to reach the finals. Plus, by the end of the tournament, you may not be voting for your favorite, but rather picking from the few that are left. Last time, many people commented that they didn't really like Minsc or Imoen, but voted anyway because they were their only choices.

So, I have three ideas. Tell me what you think of these three, and feel free to reply with your own suggestions, if you can think of another option that will also work.

The first option is simply let everyone pick their favorite NPC. Place 17 choices, and let people pick.

The second option has the same setup as the first, but would allow people to choose more than one NPC. I would have to set some limit, but maybe I can say, "Pick up to four" or something like that. That way it will allow people who are torn between two or more characters to give each of them credit.

The final option is a broad grouping together of characters. Have a primary (like a presidential election), in which all evil characters are grouped together, all neutral characters are grouped together, and finally all good characters are grouped together. Alternatively, I can group all wizards together, fighters together, etc. While there is some merit to this proposal, and I like the principle idea, the one concern I have is that a poll like this could turn into a "vote for your favorite alignment" or "vote for your favorite class" and not "vote for you favorite character.

Well, those are my suggestions, what do you think?

Third option, as per your concerns, would be as flawed as last time.
The advantage is that it makes for a "lively" poll. Makes the polling process fun, but tends to make the result rather meaningless.

First option has the merit of being straight to the point and very simple.

But if the polling software supports it, I think that the second option is the best.

but offer no more than two choices. That way you have a 'favorite' and a 'runner up' but not a four way tie or something.

If someone doesn't have four favorites, they'll still vote for four just because they can.

but of course, I'm an idiot.

Why not try the full list again, only this time let people rate on a scale of 1-5. Be clear that 5 is the best NPC in the game, and that one means you can't stand the NPC, and all others inbetween. Ergo:

5: Best NPC in the game, period. Can't do without him/her.
4: Good. I usually bring them along.
3. Fair. I tolerate them for quests or party filler.
2. Bad. I don't like this NPC much at all.
1. Worst NPC in the game. 100% pure suckage.

More accurate than a simple "yes" or "no," since only their favorites will get the highest mark. Also, some people may not choose one NPC over another, yet may not hate the latter outright, just not their favorite.

That's not a bad idea. I might work a whole lot better as long as people won't just vote 1 or 5.

Another possibility is let people vote for their top 3, assign points 5, 3, and 1 respectively for the picks, NPC with the most points wins.

I agree with DMC. There should be a first, a second, and a third place winner. Though I think that the assigning points would be very flawed. :rolling:

@ dmc

Your idea is great. I like that the best of what I've seen so far. However, I do not know if I can set up a poll question like that. It would require you to select 3 characters and then input numeric responses for those characters. I don't think the polls are set up that way. I may have to put in three choices for each NPC.

But even if I did 3 separate boxes for each NPC (meaning there would be 48 total choices) there would be nothing preventing voters from checking all the boxes for one character.

For example, say your favorite character was Edwin. I would have to put three choices for Edwin (along with three choice for every other NPC) in the same question:

Edwin (5)
Edwin (3)
Edwin (1)

Now, if you're an Edwin fan, you're going to click all three of Edwin's boxes.

I don't know if there's a way where you can check boxes and type numeric answers. I know you can limit the number of boxes people check, but the spirit of your system is that people would vote for three different people.

@ Deathrabbit

Also a good idea, much easier to implement, but I fear we won't get an accurate answer that way. I would have to have 5 choices for each character, for a total of 80 boxes, which is going to be confusing as hell to someone trying to vote. It will make the Florida ballots of 3 years ago look like a piece of cake.

It would have to be set up as:

Edwin (5)
Edwin (4)
Edwin (3)
Edwin (2)
Edwin (1)

And repeat that for all of the other characters. We'd have a mess on our hands. (Plus a lot of math on our hands in tallying it up - it would be nice to click "results" and get the answer of who is winning.)

However, there is merit in Deathrabbit's suggestion because I could set up 16 separate questions (1 question per NPC) and then only allow 1 answer per question. With dmc's, we can't do that, because all of the NPC's have to be lumped together.

OK, we need to marry these concepts. I like the fact that with dmc's idea you can vote for more than one person, but weight your vote in favor of people you really like over ones you like, but aren't necessarily your favorite (being 2nd or 3rd favorite counts for something, and would reduce the likelihood of having a tie). However, Deathrabbit's idea can be more easily implemented because you can make the choices into separate questions, but I fear that everyone will vote either 5 or 1, and not much in between, which will make for inaccurate results.

More ideas needed! (or at least a solution between the two alternatives provided already!)

[ July 02, 2003, 22:56: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]

Having never created a poll, I am unfamiliar with its mechanism and safeguards. Based on what you say, it is probably not possible to implement my idea. Thus, maybe you list all NPC's in one question and allow people to vote for three (I assume that this can be done). Then, once the time is up, you take the three that have the most votes, play them off against each other. It would probably seriously reduce the moaning about how people don't like any of them. Alternatively, you can have a fourth pick of "none of the above" in the finals, and if that pick wins, we can start from scratch again.

Why not set up 3 questions, each allowing one answer only? Each question would represent the number of points (5, 3, 1), and within each question you would list the various NPC's. ie:
Q1. 5 points - Minsc, Imoen, etc
Q2. 3 points - Minsc, Imoen, etc
Q3. 1 point - Minsc, Imoen, etc
This way, you only get 1 choice for each of 5, 3 and 1 points. The only problem is that this doesn't prevent someone from clicking the same NPC in each question, but hopefully if you told people not to do this, they wouldn't. And if they did, you could just pick the 5-point one and ignore the rest. Still not perfect, though.

@dmc

Your new suggestion can be done. That is a spin-off and combination of my second and third ideas. We lose the "weighted vote" of giving more points to the NPC you like the most, and fewer points to your second and third runners-up, but this system can be implemented.

I don't know about a runoff though, unless we end in a tie again. If you voted for anyone but the top three as your favorite, you will likely check the "none of the above" option. So if the totals of the top three do not exceed the votes of everyone else, we'll never get a winner. Even if the totals of the top three were greater than the other 13 NPC's, if everyone who didn't get their pick into the finals votes for "none of the above" then the vote for the second poll will be identical to vote of the first poll (assuming if your favorite got into the top three, you'd vote for them again).

@ splunge

I'm not sure we gain that much in switching from dmc's original suggestion to yours. You have certainly simplified the process by making 3 questions with 16 choices, as opposed to one mega-question with 48 choices, but the problem is the same as what we had with dmc's original plan. We can have a person vote for one character 3 times. There is also no way for someone to tell if someone voted for the same character all three times, unless you happen to see what the results were right before and right after that individual voted. Think about it. If 40 people vote, and 5 of them did this, but you only saw the result when all 40 had already voted, would you be able to discern who or how many people voted for the same NPC three times? I don't think so.

Also, I apologize if people think I'm just shooting down their suggestions. I am not intending to insult anyone. A "perfect poll" probably cannot be created, but I am trying to brainstorm with everyone to attempt to implement the most fair system as we possibly can. Please take any criticism I have for the ideas suggested so far to be constructive, and keep those ideas rolling in!

:idea: Eureka! I think I've got it!

How about this - three questions as follows:

1.) Who is your favorite NPC?

I would allow only one answer for this question.

2.) Who are your two favorite NPC's? (include answer from #1 in your selections)

I would allow two answers for this question.

3.) Who are your three favorite NPC's? (include answers from #2 in your selections)

I would allow three answers in this section.

For example, I pick characters based mostly on entertainment value. Thus, my three favorite in order would be Edwin, Minsc, and Jan. So I would answer Edwin for the first question, Edwin and Minsc for the second question, and Edwin, Minsc and Jan for the last question.

Now, we will have to a little math, but no problem. All we have to do is add up the number of votes from all three questions. Your favorite character you will have voted for all three times, so in essence, they get 3 votes (or 3 points if you prefer). Your 2nd favorite would be voted on in questions #2 and #3, so they would get 2 votes/points. Finally, the 3rd favorite would only have 1 vote, so they would get one vote/point.

This method eliminates cheating by voting for one character multiple times, because we are actually encouraging that practice. This method allows you to weight the vote as was suggested (although not in the 5:3:1 ratio that was originally suggested). Plus, by allowing second and third place votes, we greatly reduce the chance of there being a tie. It is still possible, but now it would be highly unlikely.

What are your thoughts on this?

[ July 03, 2003, 18:10: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]

I like it. So long as the poll system will support it, your method will work (do people have to vote for two the second time and three the third or can they do less -- i.e., can the poll system force a certain number of checks before allowing the vote to be tallied?)

Seems to me like it would be a little confusing for the participant, but statistically it looks like it would work provided the participant follows your rules. At first glance I thought you were asking something like:

1) Choose your favorite
2) Choose 2 of your 2nd favorites
3) Choose 3 of your 3rd favorites

It seems to me that this way you're counting on people following your instructions perfectly and remembering their previous answers rather than just answering outright. This is now becoming a voter turnout issue, as well, with a bit of the old "rational self interest theory" thrown in. You've done a few of elimination polls now. I tend not to think people will vote if they think it's the same thing all over again and/or more complicated this time.

But that's just how I see it. Not trying to be a Negative Nancy, I promise. :D

@ dmc

I do not think you can force people to check two or three boxes if they do not wish to, and they really don't have to. If your favorite character is say, Minsc, and you only want to give points to Minsc, then by all means just vote for him three times. That's the beauty of the poll. You can't "cheat" the poll, but allows you to vote for more than one if that is your wish.

@ Death Rabbit

You may have a point about voter turnout. Unfortunately, the only way for me to discover if that is true is if I submit the poll to voting. As far as following the instructions, they are pretty easy, and they don't have to remember anything, as all three questions will be on the same page.

Hopefully there will be interest. We had about 70 people vote on the last one, and even half of that number would be fine for the next one.

Yeah, I think this is the best idea yet. If you make sure everyone understands the instructions, and, as you said, they are pretty easy :D , this poll could work. The fact that you can't really cheat or have a tie makes this the best idea yet. I don't think you're going to have to worry about the turn-up, because the results will be more accurate this time.

Yup, nice one. :)

I think it should work nicely.

Only change I might make to that idea is reverse the order of the questions: first ask to vote for fav three, then fav two, and last the one favourite NPC.

@ Arutha

Excellent idea. That way I don't have to give instructions to people to say "include the previous answer in your selections".

As far as turn-out is concerned, I think if people take the time and actually read the instructions they will participate. However, I'm not so sure everyone will read the instructions.

My current plan is to not start the poll until Monday, or at least Sunday night, as the holiday weekend starts tomorrow, and many people will be away from their computers for the weekend (myself included). For the non-US registered users, sorry.

[ July 03, 2003, 20:52: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]

Counting on people to actually READ the instructions and FOLLOW them? are you ok? *checks his temperature*

:eek:

Even with all this detail we'll just get down to Imoen and Minsc once again. How about we just say they tied and move on? Or just redo the finals perhaps?