^I like playing the good side, and as such have always sided with Aran Linvail in my previous games.

But, for a little change, I want to side with Bodhi in my next campaign. Though I have some questions:

Is it really evil to side with Bodhi and is there a reputation drop? I thought it was, but...

I realized that shadow tieves are no less evil than Bodhi. Sure, they do not drink the blood of their victims, but they do even worse things! Smuggling, Assasination, Burglary, Thievery, Blackmailing, Threatening the locals, Imprisoning people, torturing etc. They all do these and thus deserve to be punished and stopped IMHO.

So, if I ally myself with Bodhi , I can give and end to Shadowthieves, but also later in the game, I will destroy Bodhi's guild as well! This way I will get rid of the two major troubles in Anthkathla! Isn't it a better solution for the good aligned? Surely, Athkathla and especially Docks District will be a much better place without any shadow of evil thieves and blood drinkers both?

What do you think?

^I like playing the good side, and as such have always sided with Aran Linvail in my previous gamesGood is such a strong word :p

Is it really evil to side with Bodhi and is there a reputation drop? I thought it was, but...Not necessarily, depends on how you play it out.

So, if I ally myself with Bodhi , I can give and end to Shadowthieves, but also later in the game, I will destroy Bodhi's guild as well! This way I will get rid of the two major troubles in Anthkathla! Isn't it a better solution for the good aligned? Surely, Athkathla and especially Docks District will be a much better place without any shadow of evil thieves and blood drinkers both?

What do you think?It surely will, though it would require a somewhat intelligence PC to figure that plan out :p
However if looked upon logically, it won't take long for some other thieves guild to overtake the scene in Athkatla (Remember mae'Var and his dealings with the "knifes" who wanted more power), or it the shadow thieves council would just send new repressentants to their Athkatla branch (as it is the largest city in Amn, and the City of Coin).
All-in-all, you would only ending up destroying a current evil - a new one would surely rise with time...

All-in-all, you would only ending up destroying a current evil - a new one would surely rise with time... If all Pallies thought like that, no evils would get stopped at all. "Oh, there's a dragon torching that village! But if I kill it, another evil will come along eventually. At least with a dragon attacking, other evils will stay away..."

But I don't think making a deal with Bodhi is something a righteous person would do. She says when you first meet her that she'll want you to murder, steal and everything else. Also, she may eventually "reward" you by vampirising you, and it's hard to take an anti-vampire stance when you are one.

Well, when you first encounter Bodhi and she makes you the offer to join her, you don't know yet you will destroy her anyway... So, it all comes down to a decision for that time being... And like the PC says in a line... "I prefer the evil I know".

All-in-all, you would only ending up destroying a current evil - a new one would surely rise with time... If all Pallies thought like that, no evils would get stopped at all. "Oh, there's a dragon torching that village! But if I kill it, another evil will come along eventually. At least with a dragon attacking, other evils will stay away..."Dude, you're missing the point. He cannot destroy the spirit of thievery, thus destroying the Shadow thieves would only lead to another power rising. Therefore I think it would be more logic for a Good alligned person to ally himself with the shadow thieves because they're the lesser evil here. Moreover putting that quote up next to how a pally would act in a given situation is a wee low shot, Paladins are the "extreme" when looking into such an situation; and they would surely tend to act differently than the average good person. Again we could look at the situation from yet another perspective: any lawful good person couldn't allign himself (especially paladins!) with any of the sites, as they break the laws in order to achieve their goals, period... So, in the end a Paladin or any Lawful good alligned person would have to bite their tongue and say: the goal justify the means; which aren't a very Paladinish way to do things.

Ah, I see what you mean.

But my example doesn't just apply to pallies, but to every character that's doing things for good.

But I understand; a physical threat is easier to stamp out than a way of living.

:confused: What's more evil than killing someone and getting said person to rise as undead?

Both groups are 'evil' - both kill, rob, extort, etc. This is a decision that could be considered RPing.

I play as the character I am at the time and his/her alignment. Usually, I go powergamer and refuse Bodhi - iirc, there's more XP allying with the Shadow Thieves. Although, there's a nice axe I get siding with Bodhi that I haven't found another, non-cheating way to get.

One thing I'm surprised noone's mentioned is the slave trade. The shadow thieves are involved in it (there's mention of it in the thief stronghold), but vampirising people might be considered the ultimate slavery. The way I look at it, it's just two sides of the same coin. The only difference is that vampires are unnatural. If you've got Jaheira, Cernd, or Valygar with you, you shouldn't even consider it. I doubt Minsc would approve either.

^Oh this is another part of the problem. If I ally myself with Bodhi, will NPCs leave me? :eek:

EDIT:Excellent! Moonstone! My favourite as a Silverstar of Selune! :D

Iirc: Nope...

^Thanks, this is a relief to know. Well, mayhap they will be unhappy but in the long term they will all see how wise I am to do so? :shake:

Keldorn and Mazzy will leave right away if you agree to side with Bodhi, and the other Good NPCs will whine a lot (especially if you go for the more 'despicable' options) but they won't leave even though they should.

^Urgh, can't I ever persuade Keldorn? Anyway I will not take him in the next time as I think he makes Tactics Mage batlles far too easy to my liking! And I like it hard! :D

So I get it that, even one sides with Bodhi, one can choose less 'despicable' options in her quests (I don't know what they are, never played so it will be real fun methinks?) over more 'despicable' ones. It is good to know! Thanks pal! :thumb:

To Quote Myself:
you should never listen to me...:grin: :rolling:

You can drop Keldorn and Mazzy off, make a deal with Bodhi, then get them back and they'll help you do Bodhi's dirty tasks without a word of complaint. They'll only leave if they're present at the first meeting with Bodhi. I'd call it exploiting though.

Just install the Happy Script component from the Ease of Use mod.

I did, and I'm definitely appreciating the freedom of NPC choice it offers! :thumb:

^Hmm that exploit is really evil indeed, but useful if I have to...

While I appreciate most of the EoU, I don't install Happy NPCs component, I think it kills the personality of NPCs, but that is just me, mindyou! :D

I doubt Minsc would approve either.I would have doubted too, and I found it odd that Minsc didn't have more objections. Apparently there really was no purpose to changing his racial enemy to Vampire. :rolleyes: