View Full Version : Mods, mods, mods......
Tartantyco Sun, 15th Oct '06, 3:44pm -So I've just installed BGII-ToB again and I've been checking out the mods out there but I don't know what to install. Any suggestions?
-A tweak pack is a must but I don't know which one is best. I'd also like some new NPCs and more quests/encounters for variation.
Mongerman Sun, 15th Oct '06, 4:01pm OH NO DONT ASK WHICH TWEAK PACK IS BETTER!!!!!!!! :p
That aside, I find IA to be a good mod for new strategic and items content. :) New NPCs can be found under the mods section here at SP. General opinion is that kelsey is the best. As for more quest, unfinished business is pretty good as well.
Shaitan Sun, 15th Oct '06, 4:04pm Depends on what you will. Improved Anvil enhances the game a lot. There are several questpacks ie at the PPG site. BG2Tweaks is a combination between three tweak mods, so go for that. Do you want more kits?
Edit: just beaten...
SimDing0 Sun, 15th Oct '06, 4:10pm You can't really go wrong with Unfinished Business, no. Evidence suggests that the aptly named Quest Pack (http://www.pocketplane.net/quest/) may also contain some quest content (it's probably the most substantial quest/encounter-adding mod behind the really big, old things like TDD which I definitely don't recommend). There's also some optional tactical stuff, but I'm not sure anyone here uses that amidst all the talk about Improved Anvil.
NPC wise, in addition to Kelsey, I recommend Keto, although she lacks ToB content. I have heard reliable reports that Xan is solid, although I cannot make a first-hand recommendation here.
Shaitan Sun, 15th Oct '06, 4:25pm Other NPCs would be Amber, Auren, Kivan and Xan wich all IMHO are better than Kelsey. As SimDing0 suggests, his Quest pack is fine such is his tweak pack wich among other adds Enhanced Gooseberries. Simply nice.
Decados Sun, 15th Oct '06, 5:36pm Sim's Quest Pack is pretty good, although I can't stand the newer AI from it, so I don't use that part. There were a few parts of Unfinsihed Business that I'm not all that fond of either.
I would recommend the Banter and Flirt Packs though, as they simply add more dialogue (which is good in my eyes). Kelsey is very well made- although his romance began to grate in ToB. Kivan is a good NPC- he feels very dark and his kit makes him a good choice to have with you.
Silverstar Sun, 15th Oct '06, 6:19pm I play with Tactics, Improved Batles, Ascension and Oversight, Item Upgrade so you can say that my battles are all very hard. If you want Improved Anvil, those mods are not compatible. You had better get the IA though, it is the new trend here!
Improved Asylum is very good for changing Spellhold.
Get Quest Pack and Unfinished Bussiness. Banter and Flirt Packs are very nice and rich!
There are so many NPCs. Kelsey is very good. He romances my male PC (normally he is not supposed to do something like that!) and is very well written, voiced and scripted. Keto is good, especially in sound area it is the best! Chloe and Nathaniel are all yours if you want homo-sexual romances. :good: Sola mod is nice, though it lacks voicing, it is very deep and well-written, with some hard fights. (he is bisexual, yay!) Get Valen if you feel evil, and you want to try somehting unique and challenging and hopefully fun! Xan is freshly out, he has deep banters and romance too! (too bad he is not gay :shake: ) Kido is a maniacal evil bard, I will try him in my next game, he looks promising!
Sikret Sun, 15th Oct '06, 6:48pm I play with Tactics, Improved Batles, Ascension and Oversight, Item Upgrade so you can say that my battles are all very hard. If you want Improved Anvil, those mods are not compatible. You had better get the IA though, it is the new trend here!
Thanks everyone for recommending Improved Anvil!
Improved Anvil is incompatible with "Item Upgrade" mod, but it is not incompatible with all components of "Tactics" or the other mods Silverstar mentioned. Here is the list of mods and/or mod-components which are incompatible with Improved Anvil:
1- "Item Upgrade" mod.
2- "Spell50" mod.
3- The following components of "Tactics" mod:
- Improved Torgal
- Smarter Dragons
- Improved Irenicus
- Improved Guarded Compound
- Improved Oasis
- Slightly Smarter Liches
- Improved Twisted Rune
4- The following components of Ascension mod:
- Tougher Cromnir
- Tougher Yaga-Shura
5- The following components of "Improved Battles" mod:
- Improved Mencar Pebblecrusher
- Improved House Jae'llat
- Improved Lord Roenall
- Improved Firkraag
- Improved Temple Sewers Party
- Improved Trademeet Crypt
- Improved Shade Lord
6- The "Pai'Na/Spider's Bane Quest" component of Unfinished Business mod.
7- The following components of "Quest Pack" mod:
- General AI Improvements
- Creature & Area Improvements
- Miscellaneous Enhancements
- Improved Oasis II
- Further Slaver Involvement
Other components of the mentioned mods can be safely installed with Improved Anvil. (Improved Anvil should be the last mod you install.)
SimDing0 Sun, 15th Oct '06, 8:11pm Sim's Quest Pack is pretty good, although I can't stand the newer AI from it, so I don't use that part.Heh, okay, I guess I got what I asked for. What's so bad about it? I'm desperate for feedback on this component because I really never hear anything about it.
7- The following components of "Quest Pack" mod:
- General AI Improvements
- Creature & Area Improvements
- Miscellaneous Enhancements
- Improved Oasis II
- Further Slaver InvolvementI think you'll probably be okay installing these with IA. Install whichever you want to take precedence last. Sikret is very, very cautious about compatibility, but I think you can afford to be slightly more gung-ho about it. :)
Gastong Sun, 15th Oct '06, 8:21pm Silverstar are you gay? Or do you just not like to play a girl? No offence
Tartantyco Sun, 15th Oct '06, 10:58pm -Ok, so far I have BG2 Tweaks, Quest Pack, Xan NPC and Kivan NPC. I don't like Unfinished Business or Improved Anvil, is everything in those mods mandatory or can I customise the installation? If I can't take out some things then what store mods would you recommend?
-I would prefer mods with optional additions, meaning that whatever I add to the game is not something that I will have to go through. I want quests that are player initiated, not NPC or area initiated. If you can think of any mods that provide me that then I'd greatly appreciate it.
Mordokai Sun, 15th Oct '06, 11:08pm I'm going to use this topic to ask something too.
It's there a mod that makes Imoen have her own slayer transformation in ToB? I would like to see that, and a friend mentioned that such mod exists, but doesn't know it's name :p
Tartantyco Sun, 15th Oct '06, 11:23pm -I've found "The Big Picture" to be interesting, do any of you have any thoughts about this mod? Are there any imcompatibilities with the mods I've listed previously(Barring Kivan)?
The Shaman Mon, 16th Oct '06, 12:23am Does anyone have any comments on the Tashia mod? I like having a sorcerer around (although this game I might skip one for Kivan), but I tried Kelsey - and he gets on my nerves. If I play a female PC and want a romance, I'd get Xan.
Sikret Mon, 16th Oct '06, 3:23am I don't like Unfinished Business or Improved Anvil, ...
Why don't you like them before giving them a try? Have you read their readme files and concluded that you don't like them or have you just read some baseless remarks about them somewhere?
If you have read the readme files and have decided by yourself, then it is fine. But there are also a number of false remarks about Improved Anvil in some forums which you shouldn't trust and shouldn't base your conclusions and decisions on them.
is everything in those mods mandatory or can I customise the installation?
Unfinished Business is customizable, Improved Anvil is not. The various features of IA depend on each other in a way that it cannot be divided into different optional components at installation stage.
Silverstar Mon, 16th Oct '06, 10:07am @Mordokai
If you have Ascension's final fight component, and have Immy with you at that point, you will have a suprise! ;) And 'loads' :shake: of FUN, if you get my meaning! :lol:
@Tartantyco
Come on, man, install IA. If I had a clean installation like yours I would not hesitate to get it ASAP! From what I hear, the mod is just excellent, it brings a lot of fresh air to the game, making it new, more challenging, and rewarding, and most importantly, more FUN for a seasoned player!
Other than that. G3 anniversary mod introduces a real fun quest. Try it! I had fun! It was very different and unique! And the final battle is hard too! :thumb:
Tactics also add a HUGE quest, called The Ritual:It is hard, mysterious, cool, and rewarding! I hope it is compatible with IA, right?
Mongerman Mon, 16th Oct '06, 10:14am According to the document it is
Tartantyco Mon, 16th Oct '06, 11:38am -Sikret, why do you think I asked if those mods were customisable? Because I read what features they added and didn't like it. Funny, it seems people are prepared to die for IA and UB......
-Again, any opinions on The Big Picture?
Silverstar Mon, 16th Oct '06, 11:47am OK, if you do not like the idea of a mod, you should not install it, ofcourse. Period. :)
I have no experience with TBP, unfourtunately, so I really can not help you much. Hope other people here can!
Sikret Mon, 16th Oct '06, 12:21pm -Sikret, why do you think I asked if those mods were customisable?
Because you asked the question. I quoted you and replied to your question.
Tartantyco Mon, 16th Oct '06, 1:44pm -Maybe I should have made what I thought more clear but now I have so that's over with ;) . Do you have any opinions on The Big Picture? It includes The Darkest Days, Tortured Souls and Shadows of Sousan(Or something like that) as well as several other small mods. I am a bit worried about compatibility with BG2 Tweaks and Quest Packs or redundancy as these mods might already be incorporated into TBP and the information over a Spellhold Studios is scant to say the least. I'll see if I can find the readme.....
CamDawg Mon, 16th Oct '06, 4:54pm The Big Picture seems to draw strong opinions one way or the other. It has fanatical fans that love the quests and seem willing to spend three days to bump up their 4,000 hour BG2 game into a 4,001 hour game. OTOH, you have folks like me that don't like the 23 step install process (including your own tp2 hacks) and find the new content less than compelling.
That's not to toss the whole mess under the bus--stuff like TDD remains awful, but BP itself seems to have reinvented itself as a decent tactical mod, BGT is serviceable, and (though I haven't tried it) SoBH looks interesting, mainly because it's one of the old P&P modules I actually played.
As for BG2 Tweaks, it's compatible with the various flavors of these mods with only a few minor exceptions--Multiple Strongholds will conflict with TS' version of it, for example.
Decados Mon, 16th Oct '06, 10:39pm @ SimDing0:
Heh, okay, I guess I got what I asked for. What's so bad about it? I'm desperate for feedback on this component because I really never hear anything about it.
It isn't horrendously bad- at first I did quite like it. It is good to see enemies change opponents or head for a different character to the one I expected.
Unfortunately, it just seemed too random. I could imagine the Vampires running around my group, dodging through shadows and trying to pick on the most vulnerable members, that seemed cinematic (although a pain due ot my lack of much NPP).
However, the trolls I encountered also did this. They would run past fighters that were taking chunks out of them in order to attack a slim, unthreatening mage that was throwing rocks at them. Worse, they sometimes did this when said fighters were blocking the doorway, thus leading to several seconds of them doing nothing as they attempted to attack a party member they could not reach.
I eventually un-installed it for two reasons:
1) It was getting a pain to simply have my mages run around in circles when targetted to ensure the minimum damage was taken- I'd have to continually do this until the enemy was taken down by a chasing fighter, or the opponent suddenly targetted someone else.
2) It was a bit too unrealistic at times. Trolls are not reknowned for their intelligence- they may not even realise a character is a mage. I imagine them as having more of a 'survival of the fittest' mentality and turning your back on the biggest danger to you in favour of going after some guy who was playing no real part in the fight (often not even casting) just doesn't sit right in my mind.
SimDing0 Tue, 17th Oct '06, 12:36am Yes, you're quite correct. For the next release I will:
- Re-examine the targetting of various creatures to ensure that all enemy types choose their victims sensibly.
- Increase the priority assigned to fighting back when receiving damage. There's only so much I can do about getting stuck in doors given engine constraints (anything more complex than "attack the nearest guy" opens creatures up to this problem, unfortunately), but it should alleviate much of the trouble.
- WeiDU interface allowing, split the AI changes into individual components. (Yes, I know about GROUP, but the number of resulting components would be large, and I'm wary of having people drowned out in AI crap before they even reach the actual quests.)
Thanks for the comments!
Silverstar Wed, 1st Nov '06, 1:08pm Sorry for ressurecting the thread but I just noticed this now. :p Pardon me if I have to go a little off-topic here!
Silverstar are you gay? Or do you just not like to play a girl? No offence None taken. I was accused of worse things before! :shake:
Well, to tell you the truth, in real life I do not find myself too much gay most of the time. (but really, what difference it would make here, I remember seeing a real gay BoM member last year :rolleyes: ) BUT, when playing BG2, I really really want to try and see different romances, which are hard and dedicated work of mod makers. But playing a female PC for only trying one particular romance is not my cup of tea. So I was rather happy when Kelsey decided to romance my PC (even though he thought my PC was a woman) as it added a lot of depth and new colour to my game! And I had fun discovering the romance, scripting, voicing, and the occasional romance-associated quests.
I was not disturbed or disgusted, this is only a game afterall! Don't tell me you didn't try that sort of things in other games (wink wink) I tried to create happy gay and lesbian couples in Sims yeras ago, when I was really bored. (it did not, uh, quite work out as I had initialy hoped though, this is another :sad: story!)
I tried Chloe too, and her dialogues and flirts with Imoen were exceptionaly well written, and so much 'in character' too! I bursted into laughter when Immy declared to Chloe that she was 'probably' pregnant from her! :grin: That was priceless! Ahh, good memories! :roll:
Now I have wonderful Improved Anvil mod, and I am taking Nathaniel in my current game, (he is another gay kensai) and his troubles, conflicts and romance is deep, well written and fun. Especially when he fights with Jaheria for the attention of my PC! :shake: I am so familiar with Jaheira that I can imagine the expression on her face even! To me this really enhances game play and I do not see any harm playing a 'quite gay NPC' mod...If you do, if you are disgusted by such ideas in BG2, then you don't have to play such mods under any circumstances, IMHO.
Thanks for reading! :wave:
Arawn Wed, 1st Nov '06, 8:11pm Sikret, why aren't the tactics and item components separate in IA?
To me the tactics component looked very interesting but all that +6 stuff for 100 000 gp looked kind of bland. I really bought the item upgrade concept were you simply combine items that doesn't merit a slot by themselves and would like too try it out.
[ November 01, 2006, 23:23: Message edited by: Arawn ]
Shaitan Wed, 1st Nov '06, 8:23pm Oh this has been mentioned before. Try a search, PM or a visit to Blackwyrmlairs forum.
Silverstar Wed, 1st Nov '06, 8:24pm Now that I am trying Sikret's mod, I have became a dedicated and hardcore fan of Improved Anvil! :thumb: That's first quality stuff, man!
Sikret, why aren't the tactics and item components separate in IA?
This has been discussed before, Sikret's mod designed so brilliantly that tactics and item upgrade components are all melted in together. If you seperate one from the other, there will be a drastic drop of quality. From what I understand, you need tactic enemies to construct those items, as they drop the needed materials. Then, some tactical encounters happen only if you have spesific items or item upgrades done. You see, you can not seperate them, it is rather the theme of the mod, if you do seperate them it would be a different (and worse, I must say) mod.
If you do not want to create powerful stuff, just don't upgrade them. The mod does not force you to forge the items. But you will miss the fun, as upgrading items look like to be hard challenges indeed!
Check the Official FAQ for Improved Anvil (http://http://forums.blackwyrmlair.net/index.php?showtopic=1737) , the creator of IA, Sikret explains it better!
SimDing0 Wed, 1st Nov '06, 10:07pm Sikret's mod designed so brilliantly that tactics and item upgrade components are all melted in together.Whether this is a result of "brilliant" design is something I would turn over a little more. Yes, there are items on the new enemies blah blah blah, but I'm not entirely convinced that melding "really tough battles" and "really powerful items" is the innovation you make it out to be. :)
If you do not want to create powerful stuff, just don't upgrade them. It's hugely detrimental to immersion to try and explain away why your character comes across a powerful weapon but inexplicably decides that using it just isn't fair.
Shaitan Wed, 1st Nov '06, 10:17pm It's hugely detrimental to immersion to try and explain away why your character comes across a powerful weapon but inexplicably decides that using it just isn't fair. LMAO
Baronius Wed, 1st Nov '06, 11:28pm Whether this is a result of "brilliant" design is something I would turn over a little more. Yes, there are items on the new enemies blah blah blah, but I'm not entirely convinced that melding "really tough battles" and "really powerful items" is the innovation you make it out to be.Well, 3500 other players seem to be convinced. :)
Arawn: unfortunately, separating IA to multiple components would require severe changes on the mod's structure, and would result in serious quality loss.
Arawn Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 12:08am Oh if this is how Sikret wants to present his mod that is his choice and I respect that. But I do appreciate those mods that are broken down in components so that you can customize you game as you want. And joining really powerful weapons with tougher challenges seems rather arbitrarily to me.
don't use the items if you find them overpowered.The trouble was that I wanted to try out the Item upgrade stuff which forces me too chose mods. And in my opinion the game already has more then enough to powerful stuff as it is, that’s one of the reason I’m looking for greater tactical challenges.
Also not using good items feels weird. You tinker and upgrade and switch equipment to maximise the groups efficiency and successively get better and better stuff. That’s basically what the game is about. Items that simply take all joy out of encounters like cloak of mirroring still irritates my power gaming soul by it’s very existence. Even though I don’t use them.
[ November 02, 2006, 07:37: Message edited by: Arawn ]
SimDing0 Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 12:41am Well, 3500 other players seem to be convinced.I don't really understand what you're trying to tell me here, to be honest. 3500 people downloaded the mod? Cool, it's nice that you're getting that many hits. I remain unconvinced that powering the entire game up so is anything to write home about, sorry.
Baronius Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 1:09am And I don't understand why you are questioning that it's a brilliant work. In at least one respect, it definitely is. There are players who don't like so immensely powerful items, while others love them, especially if it's hard enough to get them. For their needs, it's definitely an innovation. Not every player wants the "usual" balance (i.e. with or without tough battles, no super-items), many others love the might and destruction power they gain. What do you think, why do certain players make their characters/weapons stronger and more destructive with ShadowKeeper? They just want to enjoy the game. :)
Sikret Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 1:20am I think a misundertsanding has happened here for some players and commentators. The important point to note is that Improved Anvil is not primarily an "Item Upgrade" mod. It's a game enhacing mod which increases the game's content (i.e. new quests + + new encounters + new monsters + new tactical challenges).
Improved Anvil has actually nerfed several powerful items of the game. For example, Cloak of mirroring is replaced with a less powerful cloak and the cheesy scrolls of protection from undead have been replaced with a weaker sort of scrolls. Robe of Vecna, Celestial fury, Soul Reaver and some other items will also be weakened in the next release of the mod. It looks very strange to me that some people think that the mod makes the game "easier". They have not tried the mod in practice for sure.
All of the mod's new and seemingly powerful items are "themed" if you see what I mean. They are very difficult to forge and they are quest-related. Tests have shown that they do not unbalance the game. (but I'm still open to suggestions and comments if anyone thinks that any of the new items needs to be nerfed; but I expect such comments ONLY from people who have tried the mod in practice and not merely speculating in theory.)
As for why the mod's components are not separated from each other, please check this post (http://forums.blackwyrmlair.net/index.php?s=&showtopic=1950&view=findpost&p=16994).
PS: Yes, Improved Anvil has been downloaded by 3515 players so far, which is a great record for such a short period of time. Perhaps one reason is that I have always been open to suggestions and ready to add any new feature players request. (Dividing the mod's components into separate installation options is perhaps the only possible request which I'm not going to accept, because it will decrease the mod's overall quality.)
SimDing0 Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 1:27am For their needs, it's definitely an innovation.I don't see how. Tactics and Item Upgrade have been offering this for years. As of the current release, Improved Anvil provides what I consider to be a lower quality of writing and less complex AI. (Even accounting for Weimer's unfortunate penchant for breaking the fourth wall in his dialogue.)
I think it's partly a matter of hype, though. There's a noticeable following for the notion that IA has revolutionised BG2. A brief visit to the forum reveals posters clamouring specifically for the touch of Sikret to be applied to certain parts of the game. While it's nice that they're showing support for a mod then enjoy, I can't help but raise my eyebrow and wonder if I'm looking at the same download.
I don't deny that there are clearly a non-trivil number of players who enjoy IA, and that's great. I'm certainly curious to know why, however, and I think it's slightly inaccurate to suggest that Sikret's work is so tightly tied together and cleverly implemented that to separate the components would degrade the quality of the mod. No other modders that I know of have similar issues, and in my mind this skews the design more towards "unfortunate" than "brilliant".
Shaitan Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 1:41am Improved Anvil provides what I consider to be a lower quality of writing and less complex AI. Come now SimDing0, you are not fair. BTW a less complex AI isn't necesarely bad?
There's a noticeable following for the notion that IA has revolutionised BG2. A brief visit to the forum reveals posters clamouring specifically for the touch of Sikret to be applied to certain parts of the game. You make the IA forum sound very lively. If you are refering to my "Hands of Sikret" then I think you've lost your sense of humour. The SCS mod by David W has also done great things to my playing experience. To me IA has done more to BG2 than other comparable mods ie Tactics and Questpack, but perhaps it's just a matter of different opinions.
No other modders that I know of have similar issues So what? If Sikret decided it was to disturbing to IA, well...
Sikret Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 2:02am Improved Anvil provides what I consider to be a lower quality of writing and less complex AI.
This is not true. I have compared Improved Anvil's scripts with almost all other mods which offer their own AI and custom scripts; and I can say with confidence that Improved Anvil offers what I can call the highest quality custom scripts and AI improvements.
And of course it will become better with every new release. I don't claim that it currently has the highest *possible* quality, but I say that it has the highest quality when compared with other similar mods.
[ November 02, 2006, 06:58: Message edited by: Sikret ]
Shaitan Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 2:12am I don't claim that it currently has the highest *possible* quality, but I say that it has the highest quality when compared with other similar mods. Indeed. I should say, IA yields so much to BG2. Tactics becomes pale in comparison. I had - so far - some great playing experiences from this mod.
Another nice bonus is the pace Sikret works with. Creating polls and discussions, listening to fanrequests and reacting with newer versions quicker than - and I guess - anyone else (well maybe not quicker than the BG2Fixpackers).
Felinoid Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 5:13am It looks very strange to me that some people think that the mod makes the game "easier". They have not tried the mod in practice for sure. Especially when someone like Silverstar (a difficulty masochist if ever there was one ;) ) gives it a thumbs up.
A brief visit to the forum reveals posters clamouring specifically for the touch of Sikret to be applied to certain parts of the game. Oh, now there's a HUGE surprise. :rolleyes: Every mod forum I go to has people who are downright addicted to individual modders' work. Why? Because there are thousands, maybe even millions of players out there, and some fraction of those are going to click completely with a modder's mindset. They outright beg them to expand their mods and make more. The only way that doesn't happen is when people collaborate on a mod, and even then the site gets the hype.
In the end, the same way some people hate the Saerileth mod for something as little as a romancable NPC's age, and some people love it despite that, some people will hate IA's necessary cohesiveness, and some people will love it despite that small flaw.
Sikret Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 7:43am I just forgot to reply to this part:
all that +6 stuff for 100 000 gp looked kind of bland.
There is no +6 weapon in the game for 100,000 gp.
"Judgement Day" sword is the only weapon which offers +6 THAC0 and damage bonuses (though it has +5 enchantment or magic level). Its forging price is 250,000 gp (not 100,000!) and it requires very hard-to-attain ingredients.
The only other +6 items are a chain mail (15,000 gp + ingredients) and a shield (60,000 gp + ingredients).
Hence, I presume that Arawn was talking about a different mod, though I can't guess which.
SimDing0 Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 11:06am Come now SimDing0, you are not fair. BTW a less complex AI isn't necesarely bad?Yes, I know, it sounds like a bit of a harsh jab. But in a game where writing is everything, it bothers me to see sub-par text. And while you're definitely right about complex AI not always being better (see the thread recently where someone suggests that while QP's AI is quite clever, it simply isn't working all that well), I certainly feel that IA's falls down in a number of areas when stood up against, say, Tactics. IA's battles may well be harder, but this would largely seem to be a function of the new abilities and stat changes it imparts rather than creature intelligence, and that's not really what I'd be inclined to look for primarily in a mod like this.
Another nice bonus is the pace Sikret works with. Creating polls and discussions,Right, I've noticed that this seems to get results. While I don't agree with "modding by democracy", I crave feedback, and I'll probably come here a great deal more to pitch my ideas when I need to rather than sitting on my forum waiting 3 months for someone to say "yeah, cool!" :)
Shaitan Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 12:16pm Cool.
Arawn Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 1:09pm Hence, I presume that Arawn was talking about a different mod, though I can't guess which.Sorry, I was trying for some factiousness. (+6 as a metaphore for over the top.)
Nice comeback though.
Sikret Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 2:22pm while QP's AI is quite clever, it simply isn't working all that well
Which means the scripts are not written all that well.
IA's battles may well be harder, but this would largely seem to be a function of the new abilities and stat changes it imparts rather than creature intelligence,
Those who have played Improved Anvil and have encountered the smart enemies know that this is not true.
In fact, Improved Anvil's tactical challenges benefit from both kinds of enhancements: New abilities (mostly for new types of monsters) and assigning smart tactics to enemies.
SimDing0 Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 2:46pm Which means the scripts are not written all that well.Heh. Blunt, and to the point. It's a tradeoff though--as I observe in the other thread, sensible targetting in the BG2 engine means occasionally a creature will try to get to something they can't reach. It's neccessary to strike a balance, because while obviously if this happened all the time it would be pretty unfortunate, I think it's important to develop beyond "attack the nearest thing" in terms of AI complexity.
Those who have played Improved Anvil and have encountered the smart enemies know that this is not true.I acknowledge that yes, the behaviour your enemies exhibit is marginally smarter than that shipped with the game: You re-evaluate the nearest target more frequently, perform rudimentary checks for some immunities, and so on. However, targetting is still predictable, enemies still stand around between casting spells, and so on.
Combined with the stat changes you make, this might be sufficient to provide a challenge even to experienced players. However, I still think this challenge comes more from the fact that you add absured magic and elemental resistances to numerous creatures, give various people undroppable Cloaks of Mirroring, and so on, than from any great innovations in the game's AI. Given this, to claim that you've looked through other mods and found that your scripting is still the best is, to me, laudably presumptuous.
Silverstar Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 2:58pm It is unfair to say that scripts and AI of IA enemies are inferior to those of tactics.
From what I see so far, they use so many different tactics according to situation at hand, they use their spells efficiently, a huge bonus is they do not CHEAT. Yes, the enemies in IA do not cheat AFAIK.
AND, what is more important, some enemies in SoA actually uses HLAs! (though they are rare bosses) I think this is the first time I see some enemy using HLAs in SoA part of the game, and I believe this is a massive improvement! :thumb:
It makes no sense why very high level enemies in SoA (Shangalar, for example) could not use HLAs before. If you think the game as a whole, (SoA+ToB) they should have HLAs too if you have expansion, since you can have HLAs in SoA when you hit that high levels!
IA also adds new quests, new monsters, new encounters, new contents for existing quests, also fixes a lot of things which were wrong or buggy in the original game. New items are there for a bonus, you deserve something fancy after all the hard work! This is not a shop mod where you can buy the most powerful items ever thought easily, you need to work hard to force those items! Forcing items is a part of the mod's theme, it is named Improved 'Anvil', afterall, not 'All new Tactics' or 'Better Item Uprades'. IA, as a whole, is a very different concept than Tactics and Item Upgrade.
Trust me, even forcing the weakest item introduced by this mod is not easy. AND, I doubt if anybody was able to force Judgement Day without cheating up to now! I intend to be the first! :shake:
Sikret Thu, 2nd Nov '06, 3:50pm give various people undroppable Cloaks of Mirroring
"CLCK26" is NOT "Cloak of Mirroring" once you install IA. And very few enemies have worn even this nerfed version of the cloak: Only 7 creatures in the entire game (SOA + TOB). The new CLCK26 merely grants 50% resistance to magic damage and nothing more.
[ November 02, 2006, 19:39: Message edited by: Sikret ]
|
|