I cant seem to play a game without dual classing nemore, its just so cool.
So neway, I am wondering, Should I be an Assasin dual to Fighter or a Kensai Dual to a theif? Or (Possibilties!!) a Kensai dual to Cleric, Im only thinking about that last one cause Im wondering, can a Kensai were full plate if he dual classes to a cleric?
Ok thnx....

[This message has been edited by Person_Persival (edited June 03, 2002).]

<LI>You will only be able to choose a kit for the first class, so you can have a dv assassin fighter but no fighter dualed to asassin.
<LI>You are also restricted to have one kit only
<LI>The restrictions of your class willremain, so your dc kensai-cleric will still be limited to melee weapons and will be unable to wear armor

Hmm, didnt think he could. And yes, I know all that kit stuff, feel free to read my message again ^_^

I suggest a kensai/thief.But multi class first.Take the kensai to level 16 or 20,then multi to a thief.Grand mastery combined with assasination and wirlwind attack will kill even dragons really quick.(take grand mastery at long sword or katanas and work your way to bow proficiency.)Finally I suggest taking eithr the Answerer and Any other long sword.Or if you took GMastery in Katanas the the CF and Hindos Doom.I strongly suggest multi class because of the grand mastery.

*Possible spoiler*
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If you get the thief ability use any item then the kensai can use armour!!!Really cool!!!

In BG2:SoA dual classing "rocked", but in ToB, it's a different matter entirely IMO. Here multiclass rules. :D

Compare these figures:
ToB F/M can reach F-24/M-20.
ToB dual class F/M typically reaches F-13/M-28.

SoA F/M can reach F-13/M-13.
SoA dual class F/M typically reaches F-9/M-17.

ToB has High level abilities which you start getting at 3,000,000 xp. Multiclass characters gain one HLA each time they level up and can choose HLA from either class.
Dual class characters start getting HLA only after their second class reach 3,000,000 xp and can only choose HLA from their second class. Fighter HLA are superb...

Fighters gain THAC0 bonus until level 20 (or is it 21, still unsure about that). This is close to optimal when you remember that mc F/M reach Fighter level 24.

In SoA a dc F/M became a much better mage than a mc F/M, but that's not the case in ToB.

A mc F/M in ToB is a powerful fighter throughout the game with a wastly superior THAC0 compared to a dc F/M.

Dual classing a fighter kit, like the kensai, may improve the dual class option, but IMO not nearly enough to even compare with a multi class character.
The true breakers are the HLA's!

edited:
Comment to Padine's latest post - Just to clear things up, You mean dual class when you write multi class.

Also I do not recommend getting higher than Mastery (***) in any weapon unless you have nowhere else to put your proficiencies. Grand Mastery (*****) is just not worth it.

[This message has been edited by Earl Grey (edited June 04, 2002).]

Thnx for the help guys, So the Theif's ability for all items works with armour and weaps to? Ha, thought it was only for quickslot items, neway if the theif ability lets him use armour, wouldnt this be affected by kensai restrictions?

As said I notice grandmastery is not really worth it anymore, but the fighter gets a better THAC0 doesn't it? I mean in comparison to a ranger or paladin...

Something I forgot to add: If I am dual classed or multiclassed can I use two strongholds?

[This message has been edited by Person_Persival (edited June 05, 2002).]

Person persival.

I think that its either:
I: the class with the highest level.
II: the first class:
III:whichever you choose.

The only thing that I am sure about is that you cannot get two strongholds.Its just not possible.

Paddy!!!

Rangers and Paladins only get Specialized(**) while Fighters can get Grand Mastery (*****), the difference here is no more than a +1 THAC0 advantage to the Fighters. Ho-hum. :rolleyes:

Fighters need less xp each level which means that over time they'll have a slightly better THAC0 since they get their levels faster.

(Note: Kits have exceptions to this. The Archer kit is one example.)

Iirc, actually you can get two strongholds, but it's kind of a bug. :nono:

With a F/M or F/M/T, do Nalia's Keep Quest, finish it, but don't give her the final talk. Then complete the Planar Sphere Quest, Lavok will give you the Sphere. Return to Nalia, she should give you the Keep.

Thanks to Earl Grey who elegantly detailed my opinion concerning multi vs dual classes. However, this position is only a generalization. For instance, I think a kensai level 16-thief rocks in TOB!

Furthermore, my characters pick the weapon that they want and use it almost all the time. So, why not pick up the extra bonuses of grand mastery in this case? (...still contemplating using the tweak to make GM add an extra attack as in BG1)

I found a little time to elaborate...
In my team, I wanted an extra fighter sooner than later. Hence, I chose level 16 to dual instead of later. At level 16, the dual class kensai should have more hit points and a better THACO than the multi-class will ever get (due to limitations imposed by the game and the kensai bonuses). Admittedly, the fighter high level abilities are desirable, but the pick of the litter is greater whirlwind. Dual wielding with improved haste provides almost the same attack rate and for a longer duration. Combine that with assassination for some great damage. As far as the bosses (often immune to assassination), spiked traps do wonders (if you can set it up). Conversely, if you choose to use Shadow Keeper to add a kit to the multi-class, then it becomes the way to go.

Edit
Earl Grey has pointed out the multi-class fighter thief will have many more HLAs throughout the game. For that reason, I am persuaded that the multiclass thief-fighter may indeed be superior than the dual class.
[This message has been edited by Kull (edited June 05, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Kull (edited June 06, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Kull (edited June 06, 2002).]

1 Last thing, Say I am a fighter/druid dualed or multiclassed, Will i get offered both but be unable to do the other?

I don't really understand what you are asking. Really.

However, I think you're referring to special ToB HLAs? Well, you'll only be able to gain the HLS's for both classes when you're multiclassed. When you are dualclassed you'll only gain the HLA's for your active class. Hope that helped.

Actually Im talking about Strongholds, ppls was talkn about them up a bit higher.

When you get one stronghold you can't get another, except for the flaw which can enable you to get both fighter and mage stronghold.