The assassin gets x7 backstab over the other thief kits. Have players found it to be much more useful than x5? I have not played it enough to judge.

Also there is the Weidu Item Upgrade mod that has a dagger (Quietus) that increases the backstab multiplier by one. If this was used with an assassin's x7 backstab would this actually allow x8 backstab? The game probably does not allow for this.

That dagger could increase a Stalker's backstab from x3 to x4, but again would the game allow this? Does anybody know?

Cheers

IIRC there is no backstab multiplier cap (if there is, it's a number above 100), so any addition through item or spell should work including Weimer's tweaks.

The engine works this way (simplified):
- You hit someone
- If your multiplier=0 then change it to 1 (no matter your class)
- If you are invisible, multiplier will be applied on your damage and you'll become visible after hit
- If multiplier should be applied, calculate damage so it's now = (damage X multiplier)

What does that mean? This means any class can actually backstab! In fact, if Weimer's dagger was appending x2 multiplier, your mage could have x2 damage if you used invisibility on him before the hit.

Stalkers get multiplier through a semi-permanent effect, not through a table like thieves do. This effect applies on assassins for x6 and x7 multiplication, earlier multiplier increase to x5 is added through thief backstab/level table.
The semi-permanent means if your stalker or assassin dies, you lose the multiplier for good and your backstab damage will be only x1 for stalker or max. x5 for assassin afterwards. It's a bug.

Anyway, for actual experience with these two classes someone who actually played those (or had Valygar) will post about it. I haven't.

[ August 24, 2002, 12:53: Message edited by: Extremist ]

This could be the reason someone posted on this board he couldn't backstab with Valygar.
I can't remember you posting this in his topic Extremist?
Was that a different problem?

Actually I haven't noticed a thread about Valygar and this in ToB forum before nor I've posted anything about it.
But it's as I've written up there.
Even with the bug, you actually still can backstab - but there is no multiplier effect (it's 0, which is converted to 1 as I've posted in order not to destroy damage calculated).

Thanks for the explanation Extremist. I'm gonna try out the "hopeless" dagger! :D

I'm not sure if it was in this forum or the SoA forum.

i found backstabbing very good at the beggining but now it has become VERY boring. Cleaned the dungeon to Firkraag alone with assasin with only 3 hit points. :( x5 multiplier realy what happens when you have kensai/thief x6multiplier with this dagger or assasin x8. All it counts is main hand anyway = 1hit from of the shadows.
So celestial fury (or somethinglike that) in main hand and dagger in off hand. boring. i'm kicking my assasin out :)

I'm not sure if it was in this forum or the SoA forum.It's this forum. Anyway, here's the link. (http://www.sorcerers.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=001282#000000) Perhaps you would like to take a look at it and find out if that is what is causing the problem there as well.

I just read somewhere today that Stalker kit is not described correctly. Backstabb is always one point greater 8-16lvl x3 and 17+lvl x4 :eek: . So thats very good considering rangers are primary fighters :)