I mean specifically the race, class, and weapon. I was thinking of a human kensai dualled to thief at level 15 (which still allows level 38 thief). Besides the weapon grand mastery, a kensai will get a +5 to damage and THAC0 and 4 kai uses per day. Backstab multiplier is only 5X, though. I haven't decided on a weapon (having found out that two-handed swords are out :( )

Do you guys think a pure assasin or assasin/fighter could top a kensai/thief, even with the 7X multiplier and potential 24 poison damage? Assasin/fighter would need to reach level 21 for the 7X multiplier, and then can only reach level 30 fighter. No high-level abilities unless A(24)/F(27) or A(25)/F(26).

edited to add: naturally you'll use the strength and damage-enhancing items/potions/spells, though all may not be available to certian classes. Who deals out the most pain before those modifiers? Awww, heck, let's hear EVERYTHING you'd use!

[ April 08, 2003, 22:55: Message edited by: Drumheller ]

How About...

A half-orc pure thief
with perhaps
19 Str
17 Dex
15 Con
11 Int
11 Wis
10 Cha
Using the shortsword of backstabbing, boots of speed or elvenkind and other shadow eq (by that I mean bonus to hide in shadows)

Or perhaps sword that does hold? hide, stab, enemy held, run, hide... etc.

Can't remember if it is possible to make this character - I'll have to check with someone

Yes, it's possible and you should probably go Assassin here. Try these stats though:

STR- 19 (because you can)
DEX- 18 (because you should)
CON- 19 (also because you can)
INT - as high as you can go, for extra theif abilities
WIS - not that important, but I wouldn't go lower than 10
CHA - as low as you want, because you get the Ring of Human Influance early in the game, or just have someone else talk in shops for you. Besides...half-orcs be uuuuuugly!

The CHA dumping should free up those extra points you need to bump the other important stats up.

I know thieves CAN use Katanas, but do they count as a 'thief weapon appropriate for backstabbing?' They should but I'm not sure...

They're highly suitable for backstabbing, yes :D

Looks like Staff of the Ram +6 is the best two-handed backstabber (14-22 base damage). Best one-handed is Hindo's Doom +4 (5-14).

Edited to add: BTW, can critical strikes be applied towards backstabs? I don't expect them do, but I would be very happy if they were . . . :D

[ April 09, 2003, 23:14: Message edited by: Drumheller ]

You can get critical strike backstabs. Gotta love it when you hit for around 200. :D

Ultimate Backstab setup? If you mean on any case...
Race: Elf
Kit: Assassin
Stats:
Dexterity 25 (There are enough potions in the game to do this. Base should be 19.)
Strength 25 (Yep, there are a -lot- of items in the game that can also make this possible. Base can be anything.)
Weapon: Daystar
Target: Undead (Preferrably a ghoul.)
Wearing: Everything that adds to damage. (the gloves, etc.)
Under the influence of: Potions that contribute to
damage. I seem to remember some, and though they were "fighters only". No problem with use anything.
Now, do a backstab and pray for a critical. You should see an eye-whopper.
Theoretically in fact since the Daystar does double damage to Undead... though they should really fix the bug or crappy programming associated with this.

[ April 10, 2003, 10:54: Message edited by: Infarateo Gantul ]

I crunched some numbers for Kensai(15)/Thief and Assasin backstabs, and the Assasin will always do more even before factoring in poison damage, but K/T is not very far behind. Using Staff of the Ram and the enhancing items/potions/proficencies, they should backtstab for over 500 damage on a critical hit. That's assuming that the multiplier is applied AFTER the critical hit bonus, which may not be the case. Also, in BG the strength bonus was applied AFTER the multiplier to limit backstab damage, for game balance. I don't know if this is true for BG2 as well.

Maybe one of these days after I find all the answers I'll write a backstab FAQ . . .

That's assuming that the multiplier is applied AFTER the critical hit bonus, which may not be the case.It doesn't matter, since both are multipliers.

Target: Undead I though undead were imune to critical hit?!

Yes... in NWN.

The ULTIMATE?

Sarevok dualed to thief getting Deathbringer attack when Backstabbing :D

Someone please calculate that?

(*sniffles*)

I know it was listed above, but can anyone confirm from personal experience if the Staff of the Ram can be used as a thief backstabbing weapon? Also, any other blunt thief weapons? I know it sounds silly to backstab with a club (more like backTHUMPING, really :p ) but still. I ask because everywhere else I've read about backstabbing only talks about the use of "bladed" weapons. Also, you should be able to backtab with a shield equipped, right? Thanks guys.

Any weapon that single classed thieves can use (except missle weapons obviously) can be used to backstab. So yes, you can "backstab" with a staff or a club. Since you can't get the Staff of the Ram into pretty far into the game, I would recommend the staff of Rynn in SoA. By placing a point into two-handed fighting style you will double your chances for a critical hit.

@ Aldeth

Have you tried this yourself? What kind of damage/situations have you been successful with? The reason I ask is I just made a cool cleric/thief and want to make sure I can do cool things with him.

wasnt it u death rabbit who mocked my kensai\thief and assasin\fighter ideas????

anyway here is how they turned out for me, hope it helps:

Kensai level 25
Thief level 27

str.25
dex.18
con.18
int.11
wis.18
cha.3

Profiencies:
Base Thac0:-1
Main Hand: -21
Off Hand: -21
Number off attacks:4
Lore:91
Open locks:200
find traps:200
pick pockets:25
Move silently: 170
Hide in shadows: 220
Detect illusion:0
set raps:5
Backstab multiplier:x5

Saving throws:
Paralyze\poison\death:0 (-3)
rod\staff\wand:2 (-3)
Petrification\polymorph:1 (-3)
Spells :3 (-3)

Weap Proficiencies:
Katana:5
War Hammer:5
Flail:4 (or was it 5......either 4 or 5)
Single weap. style:2
two weap. style:3

Armor class modification:
Crushing: -2
Missile:-4
Piercing:-4

Ability bonuses:
to hit:+7
damage:+14
Open doors: 80
weight allowance:1600
Armor class:-4
missile adjustment:+2
reaction adj.: +2
HP\Level:+2
reaction:-8

Resistance:
Cold:50
Magick:15

Weapon style bonuses:
Main hand thac0:0
Off hand thac0:-2

AC:-12
HP:140

Equipted:
Silver dragon scales (doesnt affect skills)
gauntlets of extraordinary specializing
vhailors helm
amulett of power
Ring of gaxxx
ring of earth control
Cloak of elvenkind
Boots of speed
Girdle of piercing
Celestial Fury\Runehammer+5
Cromfayer

Effects with equiptment:
Protection from:
cold
poison
magick
Other:
Regeneration
Negative plane protection
Vocalize
Haste

Assasin:25
Fighter:26

Str.18
Dex.18
Con.18
Int.16
Wis.14
Cha.3

Profiencies:
Base Thac0:-1
Thac0: -10
number of attacks:3
Lore:80
Open locks:122
find traps:122
Pick Pocket:25
Move silently:110
Hide in shadows:160
Detect illusion:0
Set traps:71
Backstab multiplier:x7

Saving throws:
Par\poi\death:0(-3)
rod\staff\wand:2(-3)
Petri\poly:1(-3)
breath weap.:1(-3)
spells:3(-3)

Weapon proficiency:
Two handed weapons:5
Two handed weap. style:2
Single weap style:2
and several other with only 1 point.

Armor class modifier:
Crushing:-6
Missile:-1
Piercing:-1

Ability bonuses:
To Hit:+1
Damage:+2
Open doors: 20
Weight allowance:200
Armor class:-4
Missile adjustment:+2
Reaction:+2
HP\Level:+4
reaction:-8

resistances:
Cold:75
Magick:50
Fire:25
Acid:25
Poison:25
Electricity:25

AC:-8
HP:88

Weapon style bonuses:
Damage:+1
Critical hit:+1
Weapon speed:-4

equipted:
Silver dragon scales (shadow dragon until i got another silver online....)
Gauntlets of extraordinary spec. (got it online)
Helm of the rock
Ring of gaxxx (got it online)
Amulett of power (same)
Elvenkind cloak (same)
Boots of speed
Mercykiller ring
girdle of bluntness
carsomyr+6

Effects:

Protection from:
Acid
Fire\cold
Cold
Electricity
Poison
Magick
Other:
Regeneration
Magick resistance
Negatice plane protection
vocalize
Haste
___________________

Hope any of this helps.........
and oh.....u could probably get better abilities.....my main char was a pally and he took all the bonuses u get to ability (not including items) during the game.

[ May 15, 2003, 22:18: Message edited by: Death Whisper ]

@ Death Whisper

:bang: Why is it that you seem to insist on not reading a post before responding?

A. I'm asking about blunt theif weapons for a character I'm trying out because I think it'll be fun, and never suggested it was the ultimate anything. Besides, this thread is about BACKSTABBING, not your over-exaggerated theories (which require heavy cheating to acquire and use, and you know it) on dual classing that you've beaten to death in 3 other topics, one of which had NOTHING to do with dual classing (Sorcerer vs. Mage).

B. Your memory sucks - I actually SUPPORTED your ideas on the subject. If you're going to call me out, get it right:
Dual classes aren't as effective in TOB as they were in SoA. But if you HAVE to dual, I would go with a kensai/thief and specialize in Katanas, or an assasin/fighter. C. For the love of god, read the forum rules before you post again. Your excessive punctuation and ridiculously long posts are as annoying and rude as they are inappropriate.

D. Earl Grey said it before and I'll reiterate: No, you don't listen. I would comment on all the flaws in your last post, but not only does such a discussion not belong here, but it's been covered extensively elsewhere and it's now abundantly clear it wouldn't sink in with you, anyway. So I won't bother.

i apologie death rabbit......
i am very zorry about what i said......

about this topic...he (topic creator) asks about how to get good backstabbing......and he wondered about is a kensai\thief would be a good choice....i simply posted how my kensai\thief and assasin\fighter turned out so i might look at them and get an idea how to get good backstab or make a good kensai\thief, assasin\fighter.

i again apologies........
yes...my memory sucks.....im aware of that ^_^

You don't have to be sorry. Just read the forum rules and no one will get mad at you.

My question about anyone's experience with blunt thief weapons still stands, if anyone knows.

well i just finished another kensai\thief wielding angurvadal+5 and celestial fury....did 135 backstabbing damage........i do not how to get high backstab damage....^_^

heard of people doing 500 backstab damage though.....

anyway my assasin\fighter with short sword of the mask and a scimitar (dont remember which) did 140 backstab damage......

bah......i will try to get a better backstabber later sometimes when i understand how to set up a good assasin....^_^

anyways do know that u gotta sacrifice some "things" to get high backstab damage.....
just making u aware of it and i think u should think about if its worth it......

Yes, staves and clubs can be used in backstabbing... thieves only blunt weapons.

I like Celestial Fury (katana) personally, because you get it early in the game.

My one truly sad moment was finding out that the staff of the arch-magi could *not* be used as a backstabbing weapon. I gave it to Imoen, expecting great things. Imagine... Equip, invisible, whomp, equip, invisible, whomp... over and over. How cool would that be?

I suppose she couldn't use it to backstab since she was wielding it as a mage. But I was truly bummed.