Well, like the poll title says... Which one do you think is better. Also, I apreciate if you could tell me your reasons. I have my own opinion, but I want to see yours.

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This poll contains 1 question(s). 31 user(s) have voted.
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Poll Results: Which thief kit you think is better? Assassin or Bounty Hunter? (31 votes.)

Which thief kit you think is better? Assassin or Bounty Hunter? (Choose 1)
* Assassin - 68% (21)
* Bounty Hunter - 32% (10)

Swashbuckler. :p

EDIT: ditto Undertaker :D

[ September 24, 2005, 17:11: Message edited by: Felinoid ]

Assassin:
-x7 backstab multiplier
-poison
-bounty hunter has only those traps which become useless on higher levels (I don't want to Maze or ORS the enemy, I want to kill him) that's why BH is the worst thief kit
But still I preffer the swashbuckler :D

I must go with the Assassin as well. The poison and x7 backstab multiplier make it much more dangerous then the Bounty Hunter. Although I would go with the swashbuckler if I had to choose from all the kits.

Without Backstab, the Swashbuckler is only half a thief. Whilst it gets a lot of cool bonuses, the best thief kit can't be the one without backstab - imho ;)

In this spirit, is the Assassin the best because of the insane x7 modifier at high levels? Well, perhaps. But there are other questions we need to ask, one being "Party or Solo?". This is beacuse it's in solo that the Bounty Hunter's maze traps really shine. Remembering that BH traps can be thrown, and don't seem to suffer the same restrictions as conventional traps (i.e. they'll still fire successfully when turning a neutral hostile). Also, the fact that Maze completely removes opponents from the map allows you to set traps beneath where they were standing! Played properly, they're nearly invincible, except when ToB decides to ambush you using the conversation engine. :grr:

However, for party play - even though the skill points are horrible at low levels - I'd prefer the assassin. A combined Backstabber/Archer (poison + Tuigan bow :yum: ) is very handy, but probably will struggle for skils with more than 4 total members in a party. The loss of Maze traps doesn't matter because you'll have plenty of ways to disable foes with a mage and cleric anyway.

But the Bounty Hunter is still the best way to attain Infinite Cosmic Power (tm). Of course, that doesn't mean it's neccesarily the best, does it? ;)

Just like The Magpie said, I didn't add the Swashbuckler because is more of a fighter than a thief. Heck, in some fields, he is better (I'm talking about his AC). If it wasn't for the Throne of Bhaal add-on, I would've chosen the Bounty Hunter, because he has a higher number of skill points/level, and in some fights, his traps are more than useful. But, his traps became obsolete with the add-on (the traps that are available from the HLA rock) and the number of skill points are more than enough until the end of the game for the Assassin. So I chosed Assassin, too. However, until now, I considered this kit as the weakest of the Thief class. ANother advantage is that he gains +1 damage and +1 to hit from the start (which is a +1 damage away from specialized), so he is a better fighter than the Bounty Hunter, and has greater chances to hit with a backstab.
@The Magpie: I'm talking about the case when the thief is in a party.

Bounty Hunter (his traps are very powerful if used right), though I like Assassin better.

Swashbuckler because is more of a fighter than a thief.A Swashbuckler is like a better version of the Fighter/Thief except Swashies can't use the weapons of a fighter like the fighter thief can. *thinks about a dual classed Fighter/Swashbuckler*

Anyways Assassin is better then those Bounty Hunters in some*ahem* most ways.

I say it depends a lot on how you want to use the thief...
Swashbuckler's are great for many a thing, but a big minus is the sneak attack, or rather the lack thereof!
Therefor I would actually say that I do not prefer one of the kits above the ohters (though I prefer assassin and swashbuckler over bounty hunter). Usually I don't make any kit based thiefs, but like to rather dual or multi a regular class thief.

I cannot remember a single time I used backstab. I know, I'm missing out on the major skill of thieves, but while I love micromanaging my mage spellcasting I never had the patience for backstabbing. So, for me the Swashbuckler has advantages without a single disadvantage :)

Cannot really separate between Assassin and BH. I've no doubt the Assassin is very powerful, but not in my hands. And as has been mentionned, the special traps of the BH are obsolete come ToB.

A BH's traps can be thrown and that's really nice!
The Swashbuckler is not useless if you dual into Fighter later, the bonuses make such a character a fearsome opponent (a single class Swashbuckler gets Whirlwind attacks later on which isn't that bad).
Assassins are the best backstabbers, they are fun to play.

basically the choice is between traps and backstab. IMO traps can be boring -it tends to make the game too easy at times- so I'd pick Assassin.

It comes down to a question of versitility. The Assassin is extremely specialized where it shines in backstabbing and its poison is deadly. The Bounty Hunter is less specialized in that he has traps for all situations. Yea the HLA traps make using hunter traps obselte for damage so that is why they been getting additional abilities to ther traps so that you would use them. With those hunter traps you can remove key people out of the fight for a limited amount of time with no fuss which makes it easier to kill the remaining enemies.

I agree with The Magpie, Caradhras, and Greystar, the assassin gets my vote only because of fun not power. For power it goes to the Bounty hunter. (my personal fave still goes to the swashbuckler woot!).

It depends. If you like to backstab a lot and then provide ranged support...Assassin is a lot better. However, if you are soloing and play intelligently...Bounty Hunters are VERY powerful...especially once you hit lvl 21.

assasin is a really good fighter at the higher levels aswell, you can dual wield CF and that blade of the monks you kan buy from the guy in that pub in the streets(how can i forget these things)?

and with the "always backstab" attack and a improved haste this char will do 100+ dammage per attack and have 9-10 attacks per round

Swashbuckler.

But out of these? Bounty-Hunters. Those traps are killers.

Also, first BH voter! Wooh!

A second Bounty Hunter fan here. Sure, Assassins get x7 backstab damage and poison... but you have to sacrifice too much in thievery, or depend too much in potions. A Bounty Hunter doesn't lose as many points when levelling up, and is a much better all-round thief.

I find surprising the amount of people who disregard the BH because of the HLA's. The BH traps do not become obsolete once you obtain the ones in ToB. On the contrary, they are the perfect match. For those who haven't done so yet and plan to play a thief seriously, I'd recommend having a look at "Chris Lee's Thief Guide" (http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/index_tips.php)

I agree with Colthrun. Read Chris Lee's Thief Guide. The BH's traps do not become obsolete in ToB. First, the BH can throw his traps which is an incredibly powerful ability. Combine that with the Maze ability of thier level 21+ traps for some awesome combos.

Want to kill a ToB dragon who goes hostile with the first trap? Set a maze trap, Mr. Dragon disappears. Then set some of those HLA spike traps so that Mr. Dragon gets obliterated upon his return.

In the final fight in SoA, the Maze trap can actually break JI's spell scripts. Chris Lee points this out in his guide, and I have confirmed it in my own playing. Set a maze trap near where Jon spawns. When he appears he gets mazed automatically without going through his massive spell casting script. Wait a few minutes and Jon will reappear much the weaker.

Do not underrate the BH's traps. They are very powerful. I love it so much I usually SK my M/T's into being BHs. Great class, I much prefer them to Assassins.

On the other hand, if you think normal traps are cheesy already, the BH will slam your cheese meter through the roof.

The assasin and the bounty hunter are both soo stupid.However, the most idiot is Bounty Hunter.I don't play with any kind of thief anyway.

I have to say neither. Swashbuckler looks the best to me, if thief kits go. For the roleplaying value, you may want to choose another kit. I suppose bounty hunter would be the least fighterish, assassin the most evil and so on.

I guess it's all a matter of playing style. Myself, I hate having to fight enemies on their terms. I prefer scouting ahead and lure the enemy to a more suitable place, where the rest of my party is waiting for them. If I can set a couple of traps in the way, so much better.
:thumb:

@Mihai:
The assasin and the bounty hunter are both soo stupid.However, the most idiot is Bounty HunterI can understand not liking to play with a class or a kit. I, for one, don't like playing with 2nd Edition bards mainly because of armor restrictions, and the fact that they can use any wizard spells and scrolls they choose. As a wizard fan I have an issue with that. Could you elaborate your opinion about thieves?

Both thief kits are very powerful.

If I wanted an all power thief I would start off in BG1 as a vanilla fighter and give him the tomes for Str, Dex, Con, & Cha if you have a CHA of 17+.

Str 19
Dex 19
Con 19
Int 3+
Wis 3+
Cha 17+

Once the vanilla fighter reach level 9 in BG2 I would than dual him/her to a Thief. This would give me the thief extra hit dice for extra HP. I do know that if a player goes this route they will not be able to gain the special abilities of the kits listed unless shadow keeper was used but this route provides a character with godly stats, HP and super back stabber with high normal thieving stats. The only down side is no posion and no special traps.

well.. first of all if i where to make that char, i would duall him at level 13 instead, extra profs. and extra attack, and most likely pick a kit, like kensai or so.

another thing i think i would make a multi F/T instead, if that is possible in BG 1 (tutu)

In the original game, the Assassin is the best thief kit hands down. With mods like Tactics however, the Bounty Hunter is the best thief kit.

What good is a 7x backstab or poison attack if your enemy has a stoneskin on? Or Improved Mantle? Or PFMW?

Bounty Hunter, no doubt. Also, since I like to be skilled in many areas, I much prefer the 20 pts/lvl instead of 15. Throwing the traps is just the icing on the cake!

That said, pulling off a Critical Hit 7x backstab is a powergamer's fantasy...

... a fantasy fulfilled, as my assassin managed to pull one off against those bhaal-spawnies who look like a kobold and a xvart from bg and a kobold commando and rabbit (18,000 xp?!). really nice one:
isam attcks xxx.
isam: attack throw 19 + 12 = hit.
isam: yeah, he he. (voice only)
isam did 190 septuple damage to xxx.
xxx: death.
or something like that :D

A Swashbuckler is like a better version of the Fighter/Thief except Swashies can't use the weapons of a fighter like the fighter thief can. You think a Swashbuckler is superior to a Fighter/Thief? Really? I think the fighter/thief multi-class is one of the most powerful characters in the game, once you earn your first 1 million XP. (It takes a while to get enough skill points to have your thief be fully functional. By the time you get to ToB, and get assassinate, you can be hitting enemies multiple times in one round, with 100+ damage per hit.)

Anyway, if the choice must be between BH and A, I'll take the Assassin. As has already been pointed out, in party play, the BH's trap skills become superfulous, and I'll take the X7 backstab and poison (especially while using a bow), thank you very much.

Love the assassin. More challenge, more fun. I always find my assassin doing most of the hard work if I'm with a party once he gets the boots of speed. When I solo'd an assassin, I went all the way through Firkraag's duneon without resting once. Problem with a bounty hunter is, what do you do when you're out of traps? Looks like you have to rest, and hope you don't get ambushed. ;)

Assassins ROCK!!!!!!!

Assassin, easily. If the poll was assassin or swashbuckler, then I'd have more difficulty. I don't think the special snares are impressive enough compared to the backstab and poison of an assassin. :)

What's so great about a Swashbuckler? They're a poor fighter, as the most they can ever get is 4 attacks at horrible THAC0...(the bonus THAC0s dont make THAT much difference).

Assassins and Bounty Hunters are SO much better than Swashies IMO...

What's the point of being a thief if you can't backstab? Meh... :rolleyes:

What's so great about a Swashbuckler? They're a poor fighter, as the most they can ever get is 4 attacks at horrible THAC0...(the bonus THAC0s dont make THAT much difference).
Ok then you should go for Assassin or Bounty Hunter, Dual them into a fighter when you get the thieves/bards ability Use Any Item and then kill anything that bugs you :evil:

Well, on the one hand the Swashbuckler faces no penalties to the rogue points they get when levelling up. The Swashbukler's attack and AC improve with levels. That means that a Swashie will hit more often, and will be hit less times than any other thief type. They can also get 2 starts in any weapon or weapon style they can choose, which is another bonus. And they can dualwield with minimum penalties (for a rogue, that is).

The only downfall is the inability to backstab. IMO, depending on your style of play, that limitation may not be that important.

I still prefer the BH, though.

Some Creatures especially in TOB are immune to backstab and others are immune to poison. If you are immune to both the assassin is going to have a real tough time. Besides the poison is really the only thing really going for the assassin. Yes he has a x7 backstab but a BH has a x5 and that is very nasty too. I like adding abilities to my characters rather than make one thing great which is my problem with assassin from a power stand point (but they are still more fun in general to play).

That's a good point too. Really, the difference between X5 and X7 isn't as great as you'd think, because it is the base weapon damage that get multiplied. Other bonuses (such as strength) get added on AFTER the multiplication, so your thief with +10 to damage is only going to get that once, not 7 times.

An extra 2x isn't as great as I'd think? It only means that you have a better chance of taking out your enemy in 1 hit. It's like saying that a +2 longsword isn't as great as you'd think, because it only does an extra 2 damage, and only adds 2 to your THAC0.

Even if the damage isn't multiplied from strength, if you're wielding a katana, that's a potential of 1d10+(weapon damage)x2 damage bonus with 7x as opposed to 5x. Double that on a critical for an extra 40+(weapon damage). No, not as great as I'd think at all. :rolleyes:

For unbackstabbable enemies, use traps. These enemies are few and far between anyways.

Well obviously it does MORE Mularkey. I'm just saying from personal experience, spell casters (the most commonly backstabbed enemy) have under 100 hitpoints, so when you hit with a backstab, they're usually gibbed whether or not you have a x5 or x7 backstab. A mage with 50 hitpoints has chunks flying everywhere regardless of whether you hit him with a 100 point or 140 point backstab. You can't make them "more dead" by hitting them for twice the number of hitpoints then they actually have. All I'm saying is the added damage from x7 backstab is usually superfulous.

Also x7 isn't x2 damage compared to x5. That would would be x10. The damage difference is an increase of x1.4.

An extra 2x isn't as great as I'd think? It only means that you have a better chance of taking out your enemy in 1 hit. It's like saying that a +2 longsword isn't as great as you'd think, because it only does an extra 2 damage, and only adds 2 to your THAC0.

Even if the damage isn't multiplied from strength, if you're wielding a katana, that's a potential of 1d10+(weapon damage)x2 damage bonus with 7x as opposed to 5x. Double that on a critical for an extra 40+(weapon damage). No, not as great as I'd think at all.
The fault with this is that this applies mainly to enemies any thief with decent equipment could probably go toe-to-toe with anyway. How about Mages with Stoneskin? Dragons? Liches? Amelissan?
Poison is OK, because although by the time you get to late BG2 most enemies will have developed high saves vs poison or resistances against it, it can potentially disrupt spellcasters and slows down fighters. But what's to stop the Bounty Hunter from using items with the poison effect as well? Bolts of Biting, the Scarlet Ninja-To and Neb's Nasty Cutter come to mind.


For unbackstabbable enemies, use traps. These enemies are few and far between anyways. Most Bosses are immune to Backstab, and the more difficult ones can see through invisibility. Poison is both the Assassin and BH's mutual friend, so it all boils down to traps... and guess who simply "rulez" in this category.

As a side note, the Bounty Hunter has enough points to go around to have decent points in just about every thief skill. (5 points higher than the Assassin, as well as a bonus to hide and set traps iirc)
While the Assassin... 100 points in set traps alone will probably leave you more than a little lacking with his other skills. While high levels fixes this, you don't exactly start the game at lvl 40 either.

iv'e soloed an assasin and skill points where plenty, i dislike the BH, as i think it is.... i dunno what i just dont like it.