Alright, you're part of a new company that is designing an RPG game based on 3rd edition rules and will be set in The Forgotten Realms. Here is the delima.

Isometric view like BG2, Ultima Series

OR

1st Person view like Quake, NWN

As a gamer, what do you enjoy better and why do you enjoy it?

Syl...

i dont like either of them. i cant stand totally first person veiw because i cant see my character, which i really like to do. what fun is it if you cant gaze upon your golden plate decked fighter with a glorious helm and a shining long sword at his side?
BG2's veiw is better in my opinion, but not THAT great. my personal favorite is that of ASHERONS CALL, where you are looking at the back of your character and you can switch to 1st person, or veiws where you can see your character running around from a top down veiw or whatever. ye need some options!

"Do not question me mortal, for I will be walking among the stars long after your bones turn to dust"

I agree with what Elverath says. If only there was a way to make BG2's view more 3D and interactive. Oh well, just have to wait until the tech catches up I guess...

I have always preferred the isometric view. I think I like to know what's going on around the party without having to control the character to physically look around. I like the tactical possibilities that come with the overhead view versus the twitch combat of a Quake or the positional irrelevancy of the old-style Wizardry-type game.

I played all the Ultimas through 8, but didn't like Ultima Underworld because of the 1st person perspective. I played the orignal Wizardry (on my Apple IIe - boy am I dating myself!) and the Bard's Tale and enjoyed them, but not enough to get sequels or other games similar to them. I have played BG1 and TOtSC, IWD and now BG2 and have enjoyed them immensely.

I'm not sure if I can explain very well what turns me off to the 1st person perspective, but the over all feel of the isometric games I've played have always been more enjoyable to me than the 1st person perspectives. And now that I have that bias, and a lot less time to play games, I don't usually consider 1st person perspective games as a prospective purchase...

i love the look of games like baldurs gate it allows far more detail than in 3d games just look at commndoes for another that was 2d isometric and that looked fantastic because of the detail that went into the backgrounds would you prefer a further 2 year dev cycle between games just to make it 3d also one of bg big appeals is that it doesnt need a monster pc to run thus appealing to the mass market you start righting 3d rpg games with this many locations and you suddenly nedd a 800mhz pc to play em alright for some like me but id be pissed if all i could afford was a 300 .
rpgs like bg have always seemed to be about quality gameplay over fancy graphical techniques sure itd be nice but just look at the bugs that have slipped through in bg2 and then imagine how may there would be if it were 3d.
i dunno though we could all dream about a full 3d world rpg but i doubt wether the depth would be there for some hardcore gamers.

I like the bg2 style... not because its awsome. but because it doesnt rape system resources, but yet still lets you see the action close enough to see whats going on. I dont know about the rest of ya here. But im not rich so i get to upgrade my computer once maybe 2 times a year, which is just enough to keep it up to date with the software. But i dont wann buy a game thats gunna require a 1 ghz just to run fairly decent.

God...Games that need massive system specs kick my arse. Especially if it is a sequal to one of my favourites. Shouldn't people who played the originals be able to play the sequals, and not these Johnny-come-lately rich people with PIII 1000s or whatever

I have a 366 that I got a year ago and every FPS looks awful on my PC and I can't get the newer ones to work at all because of my sucky graphics card which i can't remove because its a freakin e-machine and the whole freakin motherboard is welded together so i'm stuck with a 4mb graphics card until after christmas when hopefully I'll be able to get a new pc but i can still play Baldur's Gate 2 and Diablo 2 on my machine just fine thank you very much so I'd have to say no to the whole fps rpg thing well nevermind anyway i hate everquest

I prefer the isomectric view, it's a lot more user friendly i think than the FPP style of games like Might and Magic 8.
As for the games that need such high specs these days, well i think it's a sign of the times, so much id being done and improved. Just look at BG compared to BG2.(i have to play another character through them both)
Unfortunately while BG is still very playable, the look hasn't aged very well :(

NeverWinter Nights is 1st person? WOW, I think I'm gonna be shell shocked for a while. I did not hear that about NWN. Hmmmm.

Fantasy RPG's appear to be more appealing if the gamer can easily visualize the characters & the surroundings (360degrees) with all the wonders of 3D. Somewhat like 'miniatures' & the Pencil/paper version found in AD&D. Miniatures 'enhance' the gaming experience. Also the 'profile' of the true Fantasy Role Playing Gamer is a bit different from other 'gamer profiles'. We like to view the saga of the game in everyway possible. We enjoy coming up with creative names, seeing how armor looks on a charater, spell effects, melee actions, etc. I think all of these are presented much better in the Isometric 'top down' view.

I can only conclude that a lot of the success found with BG1, TOSC, IWD & BG2 is the graphic engine (Bioware Infinity Engine) as well as the 'top down' isometric view. They no doubt had reasons for using this view and it has indeed helped seperate them from all other CRPG's to date.

From the Interplay NWN web site:

7.06 - What is the game's viewing perspective?

Neverwinter Nights uses a 3rd person, ¾-down, isometric view, similar but different from that of Baldur's Gate. The main difference is that the engine used for Neverwinter Nights is fully 3D, allowing you to rotate the camera around your character and zoom in and out.

Sounds pretty good to me...

BlackThorne, great job. I don't even want to go into how something like that would've 'irked' me for weeks :). The update from the website is welcome (ohhhhh so welcome) news. I am looking forward to NWN more than any other RPG I've had an interest in, and didn't want that Might & Magic feel or worse...when playing it.

No problem Draco; glad to help someone with the same concerns as me :)

I like the Top Down look because
1. i can see what my guys look like.
2. I can control combat much better.

Now depending on the type of top down game it is, it can be 3d or 2d.

I prefer the 2d because more amazing resolutions and effects can be done to appease the imagination.

The 3d look makes characters look unreal because everything was done with Wire Frames.

3d Technology has not progressed yet where realism is the main factor and not these funky shapes running around with Bitmaps for their body parts.

2d is much better for looks and making our RPG worlds look real.

The Kurgan

There's an old saying in the computer biz:
Software sells hardware, hardware sells software. In other words there's money to be made if both games and hardware are on an ever upward technology spiral.
So if you want to make money go 3D, if you want to please me (and I suspect the majority of gamers) stick with isometric and put all your creativity into plots, well rendered locations etc. How about 'real' water that you can wade into, sail on etc?
How about monsters (and characters by way of spells/potions) that can realy fly (not hover 3" above ground like the Pseudo - dragons) That should keep them busy!
If the 'old' Infinity engine is soon to be obsoleted I hope they put it into the public domain - The Baldurs Gate Construction kit?

I say no way to the Might and Magic 8 style.
The game was absolute rubbish (trash) and it reminded me of the old eye of the beholder view.
Top down is far better and easier to use.
If we go for a quake style rpg there is the problem with magic and how to control and display it in real time.
Keep RTS and RPG top down unless we can have more great games like DEUS EX where the whole magic thing just isn't anything to do with the game.

Interesting. As an avid RPG gamer myself, as well as a lover of grand story telling (one reason I enjoy being a DM), over all the years I have played CRPGs, I must agree with Isometric myself.

This view gives the player many things.

First, it adds depth to the "little" things in the world that you would otherwise not see in a 1st person view.

Second, we all like to see character development and know we are developing visually. Isometric allows this by showing armor changes, weapon changes, the general avatar advancement stage. It keeps one interested in wanting say, pitch black armor or gold armor. It continues to add to the depth of the view and game world.

Third, you see more of the world around you. True, it gives you a more tactical advantage but if a fog of war is done properly, it only serves as seeing the entire party all at the sametime and not the hidden mage around the corner summoning monsters to send your way.

NWN's view is also interesting and thanks for correcting my mistake. It is not a 1st person view game as Blackthorne TA posted from the FAQ. I think this view works too, but I'm not so sure as to how much detail we will see with this engine. Lighting effects are by far the best I've seen in any CRPG to date. Sun slicing through the trees, dynamic shadowing effects, etc.

Overall, the detail brought by an isometric engine is very appealing.

Syl...

I definitely like the isometric view...It gives the game a more epic feel to it. I like to be able to everythingthat's going on around me.

Plus the effects of speall and things looks really cool in the iso view. First person games are okay if I was only playing one person or on a network or something...But since in the BG games you control 5-6 at a time, the iso is better for that.

This brings me to a question I posted on the NWN forum.
How many characters will you be able to play on NWN single player game ?
Interplay say they are undecided.

I agree with IronEagle. I like the top-down with some 3D animations. This games is still very artistic without being a 3D overkill kind of thing. I would rather have an awesome story line, and A large emersive world rather than some 3D eyecandy.

Almost everyone seems to like the isometric point of view best, so it might be overkill when I chime in to say that it's my favorite as well... but I'm doing it anyways!

I had heard already that Pool of Radiance II was going to be isometric, despite the fact that it will have a 3D engine, so I had hoped the same would be true for NWN. Sylvus, however, scared me with his claims!

I think that I might go as far as to not even play NWN if it was 1st Person POV, unless it was like the greatest game ever or something. I despise this viewpoint in RPGs... one reason I hate Everquest (though there are certainly plenty other reasons to hate it. :p)

Well.. I think a 3rd person point of view would be nice. Like Tomb Raider, Asherons Call, or the new game comming out Anarchy Online. With good coding skills they could improve apon the 3rd person cameras already around and make it more manuverable so you can get just the most magnificient angles (with zoom, tilt, pan, etc) and have none of the clipping problems. This would allow the gamer to fix the camera in any postion possible, including the far away isometric veiw point if wanted, but would allow alot more versatility. Of course the game would have to be fully 3D. This is what I want!

Ciller

Deny me if you dare!

When you talk about that hidden mage around the corner summoning monsters to send your way, I'm betting you're remembering the High Summoner from IWD! Was that one fantastic battle or what?

"Where is he? WHERE IS HE?!" :)

[This message has been edited by Blackthorne TA (edited November 02, 2000).]

Also, most first person role playing games have the entire party lumped together until death do us part, and I like it a lot better when I can actually control my party and have them move around where.

I think that's why I hated Might and Magic so much, not only can't you see your own party (except for those annoying talking heads), the game world feels like a paper cutout and there's no depth to any of the characters or objects at all. Not like the beautiful worlds of Bioware/Black Isle series.

While we're on the subject, I also hate Everquest. Please don't flame me. It's just that EQ is nothing but Diablo in a first person mode, except you can't go on any of the good quests because 10 people are always camping on them. And its really slow paced, and it takes forever to level up.
Obviously a lot of people disagree with me, but I can't understand why that game is so popular.

[This message has been edited by Lord Balduran (edited November 02, 2000).]

I personally have to have a top down type view for an RPG. Never been able to really get into a 1st person view or an overly 3-D game. Neither really seem to look as "real" as a top down game. That sounds odd because 3-D is supposed to be more realistic, but I don't know any other way to put it. The 1st person is great for fast paced action games, but the top down gives a better look at the world and is more immersive. So I say thank god for bioware. In the 6 or 7 years since I've had a computer, I have not had too many RPG's to enjoy in this style, and now finally I have more than I can keep up with. So my vote is definately with top down.

The problem I have with 1st person perspective and keyboard movement is that the larger the game world is, the more tedious it becomes. Your hands are in a constant position. This is fine when playing a fast slam bang arcade or Quake-like game, but when you have to look for details.......

You don't need a first person view to get the feeling of immersion (you'll never achieve it 100% anyway).

As for me, isometric seems good enough in Baldur's Gate. Point and click with the mouse. How much simpler can that be?