So, do you prefer single class kits or dual-class?

Since a dual class prevents you from taking a kit for your second class and since a kit grows more powerful as a character levels up, which one is better?

That's a sort of dilemma...

A DC focuses on the second class, meaning that if the kits of this class do not suit your purposes you don't lose much.

Nevertheless (though I enjoy dual classing) sometimes these DC perks can seem rather negligible compared to the advantages of a high level kit.

For example:

-If you want to dual to fighter, is it worth to give up the advantages of a kit (Kensai or Berserker) to gain some levels of thief (mainly Swashbuckler or Assassin)? That's already a tough decision to make (though personally I'd take a Swashbuckler/Fighter rather than a pure class Berserker).

-If you want to dual to mage... now here is the crux of the matter... Wild Mages can't dual class, and generic mages don't have the extra spell per level of specialists. Even if you don't like Wild Mages, some kits especially Conjurors aren't really penalized by their opposite schools (which is divination -anyway you won't be better than Edwin, so why bother at all?) so would you rather be able to cast one extra spell per level or have some minor thieving, fighting or divine casting abilities? A hard choice indeed since these minor abilities may not be so negligible after all...

-If you want to dual to cleric... it's a difficult choice too, since kits like priest of Helm get more power as they level up. I consider the Priest of Helm kit because of True Sight and Seeking Sword, in fact the seeking sword of Helm can make a single class cleric quite powerful even more powerful in a fight than most DC Clerics (with the major exception of the Berserker/Cleric).

-If you want to dual to Thief, would you sacrifice the AC bonus of the Swashbuckler, the backstabbing and poisonning abilities of the Assassin or the trap setting of the Bounty Hunter for some other abilities? (e.g. choosing between Kensai/Thief and Swashbuckler may not seem too difficult at first, then what about choosing between Kensai/Thief and Assassin?)

It's always hard to choose between higher class bonuses -the kit- or more versatility with the dual class.

One point I didn't take into account was experience, i.e. single class characters reach a higher level faster and don't have to deal with the "inactive class" issue; nevertheless this isn't a real problem in the long term if you know what you're doing with the XP cap.

I'd like to know what you think about kits and DC, maybe you can help me make up my mind ;)

[EDIT: I mentioned the Wild Mage and this is SoA, sorry.]

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 17 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Poll Results: Kits vs Dual-Class (17 votes.)

Do you prefer Kits or Dual-Class? (Choose 1)
* single class Kits - 35% (6)
* Dual-Class - 29% (5)
* It depends... - 35% (6)

Uh, so why didn't you post it in the ToB forum? Moving.

Sorry I only realized that afterwards... :(

Faced with such a choise, I start with a pure class and use SK to add a kit after Dualling. The first level up gives you the appropriate abilities.
Fighter/Assassin and Fighter/Shapershifter I have tried.

Kensai/Mage/Thief is great of course :D But that is another topic.

Dual-class for me in nearly all cases, for mage and cleric for sure. For thief, Asassin, Swashbuckler, Fighter\Thief and Kensai\Thief all have neat perks.

multi-class is the way to go, but of the choices you give, dual class is the best.

The "inactive class issue" dominates the debate for me. I only tried dual classing once, after I'd gotten a really exceptional stat roll when creating a Kensai. I had enough points to have high int. as well as str., con. and dex., so I thought I'd give dualling to mage a try. I found getting my Kensai levels back took too long - never again!

I think more important question is DUAL vs MULTIClass.

And the answer IMHO is that unless you start gaining HLA is DUAL better , but from HLA are MULTIClasses much better.
f.e. kensai/thief or multi fighter/thief
In first case , kensai is very good fighter at the begining and once you regain its abbilities you have a perfect thief , but
i would exchange his Kai abbility +X to THAC0 and damage for Whirlwind attack , Critical Strike (great with backstabing) etc.

Truper: you can kick everyone from the party and start learning spells to get quickly to high levels.

The "inactive class issue" dominates the debate for me. Which is why you should have a clear idea of when and to which class you are going to dual.
If you go, say, Beserker[8]/Druid[x] you would need to get 125000XP in your first class and then wait for only 90000XP to regain your earlier abilities. Wait for higher Beserker levels and you are looking for trouble.

In increasing order of XP required to regain your levels: Druid, Thief, Cleric, Fighter, Ranger and finally (worst) Wizard.

Thanks for the feedback! :)

@Shrikant:
No tampering with SK please :(

@Dave Q Stone:
I didn't consider MC because you don't get any kits with MC characters. I believe that a Fighter/Thief would be no match for a Kensai in a straight fight, but that's not the point here. Concerning DC vs MC it is a fact that in ToB MC are better (both classes HLAs) ;)

It's a tough choice: if you want a kit, should you go all the way with a single class OR dual class, starting from a kit (obviously) and dualling to a generic type (like in Kensai/Mage for instance)

@Truper:
The XP issue is not that bad if your character solo for a while and if you planned things right (having your mage writing as many scrolls as he can -like Dave Q Stone pointed out- or your thief picking as many locks as he can find...)

@Shrikant:
good point about the Berserker/Druid since level 10 for a Druid requires a lot of XP.

I'll narrow my questions:

1-Let's say I'd like to play a Thief for instance, should I create an Assassin or a Kensai/Thief?

2-Or should I play a Berserker/Cleric or a Berserker/Druid rather than a Priest of Helm (I like this kit, don't know why -maybe it's that Ajantis soundset)

3-A Wild Mage (or Conjuror) rather than a Cleric, Swashbuckler, Assassin, Kensai or Berserker/Mage?

4-A Swashbuckler/Fighter rather than a single class Kensai or Berserker?

I'd definitely pick up the Swashbuckler/Fighter for his sheer fighting abilities (it is awesome when the Thief levels come back) but I can't really make up my mind about the others (though I guess I'd go single class with the Mage...)

1) Kensai-Thief ? If you are willing to go for dualling at 13+ level, go for it, otherwise skip.

2) Bercerker\Cleric, dualled at ANY level, is certainly better than a kit.

3) Too many alternatives. Please narrow.

4) Swashbucler is better than Kensai and better than Bercerker in many situations, but IMO Swashbuckler\Fighter is much worse.

Kensai 12 / Thief X rules. Snares + mega backstab damage.

You can get the best out of both worlds if you go level 39 / 40 dual class I suppose, but you'll need loads of experience.

HB, if you're going to go as far as 12, you may as well go to 13 as a fighter. You get an extra 1/2 attack per round at level 13.

@Caradhras:
1) Depends. Do you want more of a challenge in the beginning of the game (assassin: low hp, bad thac0, low thieving skills) or in the middle (kensai/thief reactivating inactive levels). I personally love kensai (15 or 13)/ thieves X. He will have massive amounts of hp (at the end of ToB 230-ish), massive number of weapon prof.'s (with the possibility of mastery no less), and backstab like a bad mamma-jamma (90-130 on non-critical hits). The assassin can get the x7 backstab modifier, which is huge make no mistake, but the +5 damage(kensai level boni) +2 damage(weapon specialization) will at least make up for it. Also, it depends on your endgame style. When you finish do you want a massive tactical striker (hit and fade with the assassin) or a fellow who can take out the opposition's spell caster on the first move then stay in to occupy the baddies while everyone else shows up to lend a hand (although this is purely optional sometimes). Enough of my ramblings on this subject.

2) The answer for me would be to go with the Berzerker (9 or 13)/ cleric X. You can see a discussion of the class here: http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/index.php
(4th from the bottom)

3) I don't like playing pure casters (very biased toward fighters and thieving classes, but that's just the way I play).

4) Not very sure why you would dual from a Swashie to a fighter (and at what level 10? 15? 20?), but it could be interesting. I would stick with the straight swashie and specialize in weapons that grant extra attacks (scimitars, short swords). Even at lower levels this type of character will keep up with most fighter types and have the abilities of a thief. The single class fighter kits might be marginally better in a straight up fight, but the swashie can play many more supportive roles.

Anyway, hope this helps.

@ HB

go for 13 Kensai, as somebody (sorry I'm too lazy to look up your name again) said you can get a 1/2 extra attack and also you can get one more Kai ability, cause Kensai get a Kai ability every 4 lev. (1, 5, 9, 13 and on?)

Kensai get a Kai at 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, ect.

Kits are the BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!don't base youreself on dual class NO NO NO.TAKE A KIT.Many advantages!!!!!!!!!Have it my WAY!!!!!!!!!!

This SuperStar guy is begining to piss me off :flaming:

1. Kensai/Thief over Assassin any day. More attacks, more damage, better THAC0 and poison isn't that great anyway. x5 or x7, the difference pales when you realise that the K/T will do greater base damage. (then I read archbishop's reply, great man :thumb: )

2. Beserker[8]/Druid[x], Beserker[13]/Cleric[x] or (the most overpowered) Ranger[12]/Cleric[x].

3. Swashbuckler[10]/Mage[x] sounds interesting. Take Edwin instead of being a Conjurer, you cant beat him. Wild mage may be fun.

4. Swashbuckler[10]/Fighter[x] is not. Better to keep a straight Swashie.

If you want all HLAs with a dual class there is a (very boring) way to do it. Stick to your first class till you get your first HLA. Then dual. When you reach a level where you can choose an HLA for your second class, you should be able to choose from HLAs of either class. Note: I've never done this.

And for good reason Shrikant ;) I can't imagine going through the tedium of re-activating the second class...legally at least! :evil:

However...I reckon its quite simple. It depends a lot on what kind of character you are playing. For example, if you were to create a Wizard Slayer, there is a very compelling argument for dualling to a Thief...as UAI turns him into an absolute MONSTER!

If you're playing a spell casting class though, dualling isn't that big a deal...as you can multi if you want the second class.

Over-all I don't feel that there is any one kit which can compensate for having the flexibility offered by a second class.