Hey there, I finished ToB finally, with my Druidic Sorcerer and kick-a** party. I even played on insane. The final battle was satisfying at least. One casualty (Abazigal ran through Sola with his huge sword. Tsk.) and had to heal the entire party twice. (What the HELL that UNLEASH ability of the last boss is!) Well it was fun. Though since I had 4 people going on Improved Alacrities and all, it was easier than I thought. Kinda.

Game ended, I chose mortality again, and I was about to cry...I was playing this wonderful game for months! And it ended. I felt empty. Barren.

So I immediately started a NEW game! Wow! This time with a few more mods added!

Created a Chorister PC. (bardic kit with some cleric abilities). Well to tell you the truth I started to love bards, thanks to IWD, and Order of The Stick. :D Chorister is a cool kit, with some cleric spells. I like bard's versatility. Can use ANY weapon and ANY item later, cast good spells, and can even pickpocket and sing! Lore is neat too!

I had many major to minor mods so I tried raising his XP to level 40.

With some mod, I gained cool beyond words bard-special HLAs! No more cheesy traps suited for vile thieves! Bards in my game do gain: Enthralling melody (charm all, save for stun), Sound Burst (15d6 magic damage, ignore MR, area effect, deafness), Lingering Song (song effect sticks for two rounds!), Improved Bard Song (ofcourse), and Magical Flute! Magical Flute is simply put, awesome! Not only it gives you three Delayed Blast Fireballs(3 free level 7 spells), it now summons a very tough berserker warrior! That warrior is so tough and dual-wields crazy vorpal axes, from ToB! Wow! Best summon ever for a bard!

Spell selection is neat too. My level 40 bard had upto 2 eight level spells, and many other low level spells. This is before any item additions! COOL!

I was inspired and encouraged to play a bard!

I always create a MP pal, so this time I created an Arcane Fist! Another bard kit, basically a monk/bard. Better HP (+1 PER level), THAC0, and all bard spells! Plus monk abilities, stunning blow, quivering palm, fast movement etc. Nice!

Leveled up to 40. Suprisingly he gained Oversight monk HLAs, which are damn powerful, useful and refreshing since they are so unique! Plus he has the same spells as my bard. Wow! Downside, he can NEVER wield a weapon or gain proficiency. This kinda sucks as hs fists are only +3 at most. Ouch! But promising to be FUN!

So I started Immproved Irenicus's dungeon. This was so exciting! I always shiver and get excited thanks to Improved Ilych! ;D

OK. Now questions.

I was waiting for Duergar Polleteraits and Mages. I knew how to deal with them. Mages are deadly if left alone, but 3-4 magic missiles are able to kill them instantly. (Immy, my PC and his pal can all shoot and kill one instantly!) Polletera somethings are so tough. Fast. Deadly. But they are dump dump dump! Once they choose a target, they never change it. :p So the target goes on a merry-go-round and other members just shoot the stupid brute to death with any ranged weapons. (shorttbows, composite bows, darts, throwing daggers, slings, whatever handy!)

I encountered...to my suprise, a rune assasin! WTH! He smeared an oil of speed. Then turned invisible. (don'T know how) Then back-stabbed my poor, precious and promising Arcane Fist, for 110+ damage! And he was NOT even in the back of him, mind you! :eek: AF was blasted into oblivion! No ressurection! Wow, a really great start eh? :p I realised then that I was still playing on insane. Loaded and lowered difficulty to core for now.

This was a nice enough change. I had to devise new tactics. Which is fun always! I did not know low level spell Detect Invisible was so useful! :p

Though each time I rested, I encountered Duergar Polletraits and mages! glad to see you guys, I really missed you! Now die!

Anyway, I challenged Imp. Ilych again! Fun battle always! I lured one target each time. Rasputin to monk was lured to a merry-go round by Imoen and all other party shot him, with spells and weapons, and thanks to Yoshimo's traps, he died...fast! Rest and repeat!

Then Ilych, Neophyte Galebrezu and Golem came all together! It looked so bad I tought about re-loading. Then decided to play. My arcane fist casted a low spell, hoping for the best. To my suprise, Galebrezu and Ilych both ate the spell and got slowed! Haha! Not so tough now eh?

Immy has already hasted us. So we had a very big advantage. We kept on running and they followed us. All the way, my Chorister, Arcane Fist (bless him for his ulta useful and lucky slow!) kept MMissiling the Galebrezu! He was badly injured. Then Yoshi's traps hit Ilych! He was injured too! But drank a potion! Grr!

Mirror Imaged Immy was baiting Ilych and the Galebrezu when my Chorister unleashed a Skull Trap. Which killed the Galebrezu, and hurted Ilych further.

Then my Arcane fist, good old Jaheira equipped with staff+1 bashed Golem to death, quickly.

We concentrated on Ilych. He was down to Near Death, my Chorister used a Bhaal ability:Vampiric Toucb!

It was funny as Ilcyh hit him BEFORE the spell was completed, but he was not disrupted for some reason! I thought I was extremely lucky indeed!

(Pc was already busy casting when Ilych hit him in the last second!)
Ilych did 19 damage to PC.
(immediately after)PC-casts Vampiric Touch:Ilych
PC does 16 damage to Ilych.
Ilych-Death!

After a good rest, Zivago and Karamazov were easy pickings.

Oops, I forgot about my questions, I WAS so exciting to tell you the story, sorry!

Questions(finally)

1-Will my Chorister be strong enough? I guess so, but he will lack 9th lvl spells and IA combos. This scares me, but I have NEVER tried this before, so...

2-My Arcane Fist casted MMMeteors. I thought it would give him a good ranged attack. Wrong. It said: 'Item Cursed' and my AF continued to use his punches, even though he had MMMs equipped! So. I guess AF fists are 'cursed' so he can never drop them. But he still has MMMs on quick weapon section but always uses punches. Weird? Will he live with MMMs equipped for the rest of his life as he can'T expand them? Should a Remove Curse work for his punches? Just a thought.

3-I got Chloe. She is nice enough and good diversion. I wanted to MC her with SK. But when I looked at her kit section, it did not show kensai kit. Isn't she a kensai? I was afraid to cause any bugs, so I didn't touch. I really really want to MC her to a thief, her 25 DEX begs for it! Can you help me a little? I have MCed Viccy into a C/F at my last run, it was marvelously efficient! Really!

4-I will also get sweet Kensai Nathaniel too! :D I want to MC him too via SK. The reason is I can't keep them alive in my heavily modded game on insane difficulty later on. If a PC can not cast Iron/Stoneskins, they die so fast unless they have some uber, uber AC. And kensais are NOT AC tanks. What should I do? Any ideas? Or should I really take the challenge?

5-WHat caused that Rune Assasins appear instead of Duergars? I was really suprised. I have a few new mods. But which one caused this?

6-Will my AF be weak as he can only have +3 weapons. MMM does NOT work. What can he do against immune enemies? ie:Kangaxx, Demobaby, and Amelissan the Black Hearted.

7-Any party ideas? Should I get 'the sparrow' too? Three bards are too much? Or too few? What say you?

Feel free to say anything, I need your ideas!
Have fun!

How was Melissan ? Did you kill her quickly or did she keep summoning demons and teleporting away ?
And the Eclipse party? Have you fought them?


As for your questions:

1) I have never played with this (or any other) mod-kit, but since a plain Bard can solo the game,with all the mods,I don't think you will have any problems.
With these HLAs,8th level spells and UAI he will be quite powerful,although probably weaker than your Druidic Sorcerer ;)
And you will have the Arcane Fist too.Oversight's monk HLAs are too powerful ...

2) It's probably because he is not allowed to use any other weapon than his fists.A dispel magic should make the MMMs disappear.

3)Strange,I remember that she is a kensai.It's a good idea to dual class her in thief.

4)Kensais are not tanks and,as you already know, if played correctly can be very powerful.Buff them,use Ibratha's mirror image and have them support your tanks.Don't use SK.Your game will be more challenging but with the right strategy you won't have any problems.But if I were you I would take only one kensai.Probably Chloe to dual her later.

5)Who knows...Things like this happen in a modded game.Let's hope that it won't happen again :D

6)Since you don't solo it's not a problem.Kill Kangaxx with someone else :p (but he won't be able to hit the 3rd incarnation of Irenicus :skeptic: )
And improved Demogorgon can be hit with +3 weapons.I have killed him with the FoA +3.Although I remember that the original one was immune to +3 weapons.That is very strange...

7)I think that 2 bards are more than enough.I would take a tank.Will you take Minsc?You could make him a barbarian...


Good luck and keep us updated ;)

1) Pureclass bards are handy enough without the IA and LvL9 spells, so I see no problem with your Chorister.

2) Remove Magic does remove MMMs but doesn't affect party members - you'll need Dispell Magic to do that. You'll need a particularly powerful version Dispell Magic though - from a high lvl arcane magic-type character or Inquisitor.

3) I've never taken Chloe before, but I have read that the modder disapproved of her being mutli-classed as an exploit to her 25 dex. I suggest you keep her the way she is and respect how the modder wanted her to be.

4) As long as he has high HP and you're not playing in a difficulty higher than core rules the Kensai can tank, though not for as long as the classes with Stoneskin/Ironskin.
You'll need to practice a bit of discretion and patience if you don't plan to MC him. Honestly I find Kensais more fun to play than their MC/DC counterparts, but simply because I like planning strategies and micromanaging my characters.

5) The Difficulty level.

6) Cast spells, for the most part. Annoy, debuff, nuke and summon.

7) Two is a solid investment, but three is too much. Unless you're planning to make an all bard party two should be the maximum you'll ever want or need. (otherwise the micromanagement involved would be irritating rather than fun)

@thetruth

Well, yes I battled Eclipse party...on CORE difficulty. I was afraid. Kinda.

Battle started. My DS released THREE Remove Magics and Immy released THREE teleport fields from a sequencer. This dispelled their heavy buffs and poor fighters did not even get a chance to approach us! :evil:

Then, Sola, Immy, My F/M/T and DS went on an Improved Alacrity! :evil:

Then, Sola unleashed a Comet (ignore MR), Immy and my F/M/T lowered their resistances fast enough, and my DS summoned a lot of elementals to block their ways and once their MR was lowered
he went on a berserk with ABDHWs, lots of them, it is casting time is instant, game is paused automatically when spell is casted, so I unleashed 9-10 ABDHW. Then Sola released THREE Waves of Oblitaration (scary spell), Immy summoned a Planetar instantly and released 3 ABDHWs, and my F/M/T even unleashed two ABDHWs too!

It was fast and merciless. The poor tanks died. fast. Before they even had a chance to attack us.

TOTAL ECLIPSE! Huh! Hehe 4 of my party (Immy, Sola, me, F/M/T) had Protection from MW active already. Surviving barbarian did not touch us. Then the caster released a Dragon Breath. Who cares? We are all immune to fire, pal! Send more of them! :D In the eclipse, Sola blasted a few spells too, Ruby rayed, breached the sorcerer.

My DS then lowered the resistance of the barbarian, breached him just in case, and unleashed 4 Skulltraps. The fool died. Almost instantly.

Then we all surrounded the mageling. Who tried to cast somethings, but 4 of my people constantly breaching, dispelling his buffs, and furious Jaheira+Crom Faeyr and FoA+5 dual-wielding Viccy pounding him...well it was not pretty. Poor poor sorcerer. :evil:

I was kinda dissapointed. Oh well. I will try on insane next time, I promise!

As for the final ascension.

Yeah I played on insane. Did not use 4 PI trick. Or it would be too easy.

One PI hurted the four in a TS+IA combo as usual. But was unable to kill them, though really badly-hurted them. Balthazar managed to badly injure Saerevok which my PI killed when TS ended. To my suprise cold spells did not hurt yaga Shura as expected. Then Melissan joined the fry and the real fun began!

It was a chaos. really. My and Immy's and Sola's and my F/M/T's PIs unleashing tons of ABDHWs, comets, and Waves of Obliteration. Then YagaShura was badly injured, then suddenly he got healed! Grrah! Viccy tried to HARM him but failed, she couldn'T hit him I suppose. But YS hit her hard! She had to retreat to the back and use Energy Blades instead.

Then, I am not sure but Illisera dispelled Sola I guess, and poor Sola was killed by nearby Abazigal. DAMN!

Our PIs were gone too! Jaheira was baiting Melissan.

We concentrated on *****y Illisera and she died. Then Abazigal quickly followed.

Sendai was nowhere to be found. I heard casting chants coming from upper reaches, travelled there swiftly and found her buffed up to the max. With 3 casters, we immediately spritted her buffs and killed her.

Then only YS and big, bad Melissan stayed.

We all hauled upon YS with all we got. He died fast enough, stupid Melissan was trying to hit my PC who was already protected from MW, though she was able to hit once. My SToneskin absorbed the blow. Cold damage disrupted my spell-casting, but I was already in an IA, and had %75 Cold resist, so did not bother.

YS went down.

Than Melissan summoned a HORDE, I mean a REAL HORDE of nastiest demons of all kinds! Argh!

Immy was on a IA too, so we used our biggest gun. She unleashed 4 Waves of Obliteration! F/M/T and my DS unleashed a total of 3 Comets! Poor Sola could not contirbute, he was uh...pushing up the daisies. ;D

RESULT:Nearly all demons died. Instantly. Left-overs were near death or so.

Viccy then ressurected Sola with the rod, who donned his inventory and came back to fray! Welcome back, pal!

Melissan was more b**** than ever though. She kept casting Divine Mantle or something like that, teleported around and summoned more demons.

In the battle, Immy, F/M/T and my PC was eventually wounded. Terribly. We retread to the empty area and my DS used Nature's Restoration or something like that, from DS ability, and it fully healed us. Back to the fight!


ENOUGH. After breaching her, Immy used the special arrow of Eagle Eye. It stuns without a save. Neat.

She rolled a 3, and missed! Drat!

Then we were already pounding on Melissan when she used a special ability:Unleash. A magical explosion hurted us all and brought hurt Viccy to the brink of death! We were in pretty bad shape too!

Luckily, Viccy used her Greater Restoration which fully healed us.

Immy attacked again, and with a good roll of 18, she hit! The demi-god, lady of murder Melissan was stunned! F/M/T, Sola and Jaheira pounded her a** with GWW attacks, Viccy stayed at the back and hurled Energy Blades, my DS equipped Erinne Sling, and with +4 bullets, improved hasted, he kept bashing Melissan too. Immy's +3 arrows were useless, so she waited.

Melissan came to her senses, then instantly Immy stunned her again! We kept on pounding!

VICTORY! She was defeated! YAY!

That is the summary, my friend. I hope it is up to your heroic standarts. ;)

As for my questions:

1-Thanks. I really liked the idea of Chorister and his new HLAs are soo nice! he will rest assuredly be weaker than my DS, but hopefully he will be a much more interesting char!

2-Ok thanks, I will try to dispel him. MMMs are kinda annoying but they do not hurt, I guess.

3-4:It seems I will take Nathaniel then. Chloe seems a little bit bossy. I had enough dominatrix experiences thanks to Viccy and Jaheira. I want to change Nath into a half-elf and MC him into a K/M. But if you say it is too munchkinism and cheating, he will stay that way. And my poor bard will constantly be on alarm to protect his lover... :p

ı didn'T know Chloe was forbidden to DC or MC. I respect author's ideas.

5)Difficulty level? Do cheesy Rune Assasins appear on which difficulty? It was fine enough for a change though, I really enjoyed it!

6)Hmm, yes he will cast spells, debuff, summon and try to stay alive then. He can not hit final Irenicus? Oww that is a BUMMER indeed! :( I like the idea though. It is so cool!

7)OK OK I will then take:

*Me, spiffy little Chorister!

*MP pal, cool Arcane Fist!

*Jaheira. I can't live without her. I am a real fan. Plus there will be Nathaniel conflict which can prove to be VERY interesting indeed. Hope all goes well. Should I SK her into a Ranger/Cleric for a change? What say you?

*Nathaniel (maybe replace him with Sarevok in ToB, as he does not have any romance thing in ToB. It is heartless, I know but I really want to try Sarevok and redeem him too, just like I did to Viccy!)

*Immy, but ofcourse, she is my only childhood friend and sibling!

*Who? I want Jan! I never had him! Is he funny enough? Then again a thief is VERY useful with his skills, HLA traps and Detect Illusions! Then Mislead+Backstabbing frenzy! I love M/T combos and endless possibilites! :thumb:

What say you? Is it a good team? What are your ideas? Tell me!

man my bum hurts from siting down and reading all that :p . seem like you haev alot fun tough.

ps: try and shorten wat u write :) . !good read :p

If you haven't ever tried Jan. He can be a pain in the ass and talk ALOT. But he has one banter that is just absolutely priceless that you get at the end of the game. I think it was voiced.

Hard to remember. But it was right there at the choice for becoming a god.

Does Ascension change the ending he gets too? That's another good little treat you have to see at least once.

@Rockem sockem robots

Well yes I had quite a fun. :p To tell you the truth I didn't even realise I had written such a looooong story. Sorry for that! Thanks for your patience for reading it though!

@starwalker

I know Jan talks a lot, it is his trademark eh? I will try him, for those facts:he can cast stoneskin etc. to protect himself from harm, and he can detect illusions with his thief skills. I think he can easily reach level 9 spells with my mods, so he will be really formidable in spell-casting too! :thumb:

Ascension changes most of the NPC epilogues for the better. I guess Jan is changed too. I don't even know his official epilogue though. :p

Any other ideas?

Hey, you might need a tank, I mean of the party that you mention only the Arcane Fist could tank (I'm not sure), and I have never heard of Nathaniel, waht is he anyway?

Any other than that, it looks fun and different from the party that you played with defore, I wish that you can have as much fun with this set up, as you did with the last one.

Tanking is little problem when spell casters are truly powerful and can summon massive fodders in a blink of eye. My bard's magical flute HLA will summon a nasty, level 20+ berserker warrior with TWO vorpal axes! Instant summoning! :thumb:

Hey, Jaheira CAN tank. She is the BEST deffensive tank! And Arcane Fist can tank as well, with all those protection spells! And add oversight monk HLAs, like tiger strike, special kicks, etc. He will be super powerful! Well as long as he can hit the critter at the first place...

Nathaniel is a sweet and innocent Kensai. He is kinda...gay, and will romance male PCs. :shake:

This promises to be FUN! I am kinda experienced after Sola, thank you! :o BTW, in Sola's epilogue, it was said that his god blessed US with a child. What? How? When? Where? Why? Oooooh....this was my third child, I had one from Jaheira, one from Viccy and now one from Sola in my last run through. Harharhar! :roll:

Edwin's ending didn't change...

If Jan's changed I can see why it did. if it didn't then i can certainly see why they left it alone. It's very interesting.

He has a bit of a speach before you actually make your choice whether to be a god or not though.

Very good job Silverstar :thumb:

It must have been a great fight.I think that you killed fast enough the 5,because against my party Melissan started summoning the demons while Yaga-Shura and Gromnir were still alive.We kill Gromnir and Yaga was near death when a Fallen Solar casts heal on him :eek: :bang: You can immagine my reaction.It was a real nightmare...And you did very well to use those arrows,otherwise the fight becomes very frustrating with Melissan's teleport and summon-more tactic...
Is Wave of Obliteration this powerful? Maybe,for the next time, I can reconsider my rules of using only weapons and spells from the original game.At least for this fight only.I don't know if I will have the patience to hunt again Melissan and her demons for some hours before she finally dies... :mommy:

As for the Eclipse Party,you used a very good tactic.Instead of remove magic,I started the fight GWW attacking with my fighter and shooting my favourite arrows of dispelling on their fighters.If you hit the anti-paladin first (Solaufein's worst nightmare with his dispel/hit) he will instantly die from the upcoming 6 ADHWs from Immy's and Sola's CCs :grin: And the other fighters without their buffs are not so lethal.Dragon's Breaths and Sola made the rest...
Also the main difference on insane is that the Total Eclipses are more frequent and with a longer duration,but still nothing impossible if you know what you are doing...


Difficulty level? Do cheesy Rune Assasins appear on which difficulty? I am quite sure that it doesn't have to do with the difficulty level.I have played through Improved Ilyich on insane at least 3 times and I have never encountered any Rune assassins.The only 2 thieves that backstab you like crazy are the ones with the Shadow mage on the 2nd level.But they are not Rune assassins.

Thank you for your kind words, pal!

Yes now that I think of it, Wave of Obliteration is a really scary spell. It affects a lot of creatures, ignores MR, does good 30-60 magic damage, throws enemies here and there, and if they fails a save vs death magic at -4 they are disintegrated! Immy and Sola disintegrated many a tough demon with this spell. Too bad my DS could not learn that spell, or he would be extremely devastating! Other spells introduced by PS is neat too. Some level 8 flame spell, stops regeneration, panics you and if you fail a save vs death at -1, (save each round for 4 rounds!) die. This is hugely useful! I love triple fireball spell (lvl 7) too! Perfect for a nasty ambush!

But that Red Wizard rings are...too good to be true! A ring with +%50 Fire Resistance and -2 Casting Speed! And I have found 5 of them in a fight with Thavians! When Immy/Sola equips two of them, they cast spells instantly and become immune to fire! Wow! Add other items to decrease spell casting, and then you will cast EVERY spell instantly. :eek: Too bad my DS was unable to use them, for some reason. I guess they are mage only items? WHY such a big discrimination against Sorcerers? They can not learn new spiffy spells, nor they can wield those rings!....Come to think of it, sorcerers were always overpowering the mages, so maybe this balances things a little bit! YES! :shake:

You say Rune Assasins have nothing to do with difficulty. Then what is the cause? Curious indeed. Will I have any more suprises? Uh oh...this run will hopefully be really fun! Wish me luck!