Woot! My first poll. Just curious which you chose, and why!

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 25 user(s) have voted.
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Poll Results: C/T vs. M/T (25 votes.)

C/T vs. M/T (Choose 1)
* Cleric/Thief of course - 36% (9)
* Mage/Thief or bust - 64% (16)

cleric/thief? pfft! It sounds like a rare vocation unless they're a cleric of mask.

TIAX RULES ALL!!! :roll:

I like the M/T cuz no weapon restrictions. Second is the annoying part of the C/T in that you have to click 2x to get to the thieving ability.

I just prefer arcane magic to divine.

I like the C/T....as long as I mod the C/T to have the same weapon restrictions as a pure thief first.....which is more in line with PnP, anyway.

I just used SK to add 'use any item' for the cleric thief. Then removed it after using :p Now can slice and dice after changing the prof's to longsword

I'd rather run a quick little WEIDU program to flag all weapons useable by thieves as useable by cleric/thieves, too. It's quicker, if you know what you're doing.

C/T for me, in memory of Tiax (thanks Fel) :)

M/T, arcane magic suits thievery far better than divine. All those illusions, self-protection spells, etc. Cool! Mislead means so many backstabs, for instance.

M/T is much better. load up on (improved) invisibility and add a robe of vecna and it is the same as drinking a potion of invisibility but takes the hassle out of having to stock up on them. the only real way to use a cleric to become invisible is to use sanctuary and run behind a wall or into a room and hide in the shadows, but just casting the invisibility spell is much easier. (over the last few weeks, i have become a real backstab fanatic. almost every battle of note, i have to use it)

C/T are more interesting to run, especially the multiclass.

C/T is interesting as it is rather unique and a rare combo. M/T is pretty much a sterotype right now, with all Nalia, Immy, and Jan NPCs.

I haven't played BG1 so I can not tell much about Tiax, but if he was as insane back in BG1 as he is in BG2's asylum, I believe he was an...interesting character, to say the least.

Plus you can try a very unique race, a half-orc, with C/T if you can stand the barbaric and monstorus paper-doll. :p

A multi-class C/T is very cool especially when you roll-play them well. I prefer Swashbuckler/Cleric dual-class. In my experience M/T end up being more Mage than Thief but it does give a nice add dimension to the mage.

If it is an early dual class like Nalia, your M/T becomes a pure mage who can use a bow, and bigger swords, and the worst bucklers. :p

However, a true MC M/T can get BOTH HLAs of magery and thievery, which opens a lot of cheesy strategies.

I've been having a lot of fun with the cleric/thief -- it's certainly a challenge at lower levels. The lower level cleric spells are not as in line with a thief's strengths as the mages. But the priest's spells are quite powerful (blade barrier with stealth is wonderful, sanctuary is also helpful). Once 'Use Any Item' becomes available the spell casting should become more dominant in the class (Robe of Vecna).

I disagree with Drew -- the cleric weapon restrictions are set in stone in pnp. Changing the weapons for a cleric/thief is just plain cheating -- and it's not necessary. Use the staff mace when you want a shield (until you get a good club) and use the Staff of Rynn for other times.

@Bassil, I definitely agree that in most cases M/T basically becomes a mage that can locate and disarm traps. Throw in the HLA cheese that Silverstar alluded to and the T part becomes quite a bit more useful, but then the game just gets silly.

Anyway, how would a Cleric/Thief MC be put to best use?

I could see it functioning really well as a support character in a party role, being able to serve a number of useful funcitons (obviously both thievery and divine buffing). What about its role in combat? Is it a reasonable solo option?

I disagree with Drew -- the cleric weapon restrictions are set in stone in pnp. Then you're wrong, unless you're talking about cleric in the strictest sense (of a patronless priest). A priest of a specific deity could have weapons appropriate to that deity; a disciple of a agriculture deity, for example, would usually have access to a sickle or scythe. Take a look at Chauntea (http://www.sorcerers.net/Worlds/FR/human_gods.php) if you don't believe me (though really, it's pretty comparable to the druid, which is typically a patronless priest of nature). Keep looking down the page, and you'll see things like long swords for Priests of Cyric, knives for Priests of Mask (good for a C/T, don'cha think?), even "plus all piercing weapons" for a Priest of Bhaal! Set in stone? Hardly.
Anyway, how would a Cleric/Thief MC be put to best use? They are backstabbing machines with staves, particularly the Staff of the Ram. With the knockback, you can just stealth and go after them again; you'll be knocking your enemy all around the room and they'll never know what hit them. :evil: And without the armor restrictions of the M/T on their spells, they can wear thief armor (best are the Shadow Dragon Scale, Studded Leather of Thorns +6, & Grandmaster's Armor +6, all AC1) with buffs and backstab, or even melee with their low AC. Being able to call upon divine smackdowns in the middle of combat without having to resort to PfMW is pretty nice, too.

[ June 13, 2006, 21:38: Message edited by: Felinoid ]

Cleric/thief is better for a party game.

Cleric, because if your NPCs die you can heal them, if the PC dies the game is over anyway.
You won't get into situations where party members are dead and you cannot raise them.

There are more than enough mages in the game already and even 3 M/Ts.

They're both really cool, and I like them both.

for a pc, id say c/t simply because there are 3 m/t npcs you can use

I feel kinda bad but I discovered that you can make a gnome illusionist/thief, then SK him into an elf wildmage/thief. All spells, all the chaos ..and and the horrid wilty spell too :p

I don't really know of another way to get a specialist mage into a mutliclass _and_ keep the bonus spell slots. Even at lvl 0 if you convert a multiclass and add wildmage, he doesn't get the bonus spells, so not sure what to do on that. This gnome gives a good way out. I imagine it'd work for F/M/T even on an elfy (from gnome to elf with SK that is)

[ June 14, 2006, 03:50: Message edited by: Tony Tulipstomp ]

i have tried T/M many times, and i prefer arcane over devine magic any day.
but i would like to try a C/T out though

Hmm, well, as I've got TDD installed, I'd go for the C/T because there's lotsa nifty cleric spells, and I like the divine beatings I can administer.

Saying that, I'm now playing through with a F/M, so that's slightly hypocritical, even if improv invis+ greater whirlwind = hurties.

try F/T with the always backstab-thing and improved haste, that's insane

Assassination is only once per day though, so you'll probably end up saving it for tough bosses or areas where youre surrounded/swarmed on.

I'm still more for f/t than c/t or m/t because they have inherently more staying power. Better thac0, ac and more attacks per round, so after the inital backstab they can stay in the thick of battle and finish off the monster or move onto the next critter and tank.

Assassination is also near worthless for the M/T because of Mislead opportunities, and somewhat lacking for the C/T due to fewer attacks per round. (TBH, I'm not even sure why anyone brought it or the F/T up in a discussion about C/T vs. M/T. :skeptic: )

I would choose the C/T because the arcane spells would make the M/T too powerful to have any fun with.And Righteous Magic + Backstab is very ... nice :evil:

But in terms of power,the M/T only with his Mislead is much more powerful.

Ah the usual dilemma of experienced player...something uber powerful OR more fun to play with? ;)

M/T is way better...d'you know why??

Mislead >>>>>>>> ANYTHING a Cleric/Thief can do...'nuff said.

I dunno Faraaz, Turning Undead is really awesome in a solo game.

If you do go C/T go with a Half-Orc C/T for the 19 STR and CON. Eventually you can gain a 20 in CON for natural regeneration. If you use SK you can have a fairly powerful C/T. I like to use Cleric/Swash for the added to hit, damage and AC bonuses.

Why turn undead when you can just Fireball them?? Mages dont even NEED turn undead...and if you are in a pinch, you always have Daystar!

Seriously, if you are playing a Cleric/Thief over a Mage/Thief just because they get Turn Undead...ehh...something wrong with the whole concept...

Of course, if you are roleplaying or something, not a problem..but I am assuming this thread was comparing them based from a character strength point of view.

I think both are powerful in their own and choosing one over the other would depend on if you want arcane or divine magic. I think a Swash/Cleric will be a great character especially if you SK a multi-class Half-Orc. In fact that is the character I playing in my BGT game right now. He has a lower THACO than any other team member and he is only level 4/5. His THACO without magical equipment is 14.