Hey all - some help, if you will. I decided to go Kensai then Mage at some point (I was roughly thinking lvl 13) but now I'm about lvl 9 (2/5 of the way through that level) and I'm getting bored of Kensai... obviously it's not advisable to dual now since I'll lose whatever xp I gaied while in lvl 10, right?

So my question is: when should I dual? Once I hit lvl 10? OR should I stick it out till 13? Pros and cons?

The thing is I want some decent mage power in my party... I have Nalia but I don't want to give her my scroll since I'm saving them up for when my main character becomes a mage. Any ideas?

9 or 13. 9 gets you the most HP for your fighter levels, and a proficiency point right at ninth level. But 13 gets you another half-attack per round. The only downside to 13 being the time it takes: an extra 1M XP for 13th level as a fighter (instead of 9th), and an extra 1.25M XP for 14th level mage (instead of 10th).

If you only have SoA (I assume it since you post it in SoA forum) do not wait for level 13. Dual right NOW! XP cap is 2.950.000 for SoA, if you dual at level 9 you can still reach the highest mage level possible (17), but if you dual at level 13 you may not even be able to re-activate your kensai class!

When you dual, be sure you have a lot os scrolls, gulp down a potion of genius or two, dump everybody (except your romance interest or she/he may sulk) from your party and write those scrolls for easy XP and level up to a decent level for adventuring. That is my two cents. ( ^_^ I like this new saying I learned! )

OP: I'll break it down like this:

If you do not have ToB and/or have the XP cap installed...you had better dual-class at lvl 9. If you have not got the XP cap installed...I recommend you play up to lvl 15 and dual-class...

This gives you +5 to hit and damage, full attack schedule of a Fighter and also...extra proficiency points which are always a good thing...

PS: If you don't have the XP cap remover...GET IT!! You'll be much better off for it, trust me! :D

Hang on hang on... ok first to clear up - I have both soa and tob, but I posted here cos I'm playing soa atm (obviously).

The second thing - what's the diff b/w dual classing at 13 vs 15? Is it really worth my while? (Yes I'm going to be playing tob also). Dont include spoilers when you reply, but how long do I really have to wait till I get a decent mage in my party? - As I said before, I've got Nalia and I'm waiting for Imoen... and I was hoping to use my character as the mage soon... So if I say my new plan is to wait till level 13/15 (depending on what you guys say), then *should* I give Nalia my scrolls etc? Cos that's the thing my party's weak on... I died several times while facing the beholder (Unseeing Eye quest) cos I kept getting Chaos-ed and had no decent mage fire-power.

Oh and the third thing - what's with the xp cap... do I have to bother with it if I already have tob installed?

1. If you have ToB installed, you should post in the ToB forum, as that changes the tactics slightly. A mod will likely move this once they see that.

2. The difference between dual-classing at 13 & 15 is an extra 1.25M XP for getting both classes working, for only 2 points of THAC0 and a single proficiency point. Really not worth it.

3. If you've got two of a certain scroll, don't hesitate to give one to Nalia. Your K->M should only need one to scribe, two if you're unlucky and it doesn't work the first time. You should also prioritize who gets what by their different roles. Nalia will be artillery, firing spells from afar, while your K->M will be mostly a buffed-up combat machine. So the big area-effect stuff should go to Nalia first while the buffs should go to your PC first. However, you may want to take advantage of the experience that scrolls give you. By waiting on Nalia learning this stuff, you can level up the K->M very quickly after the dual, putting him in a better position to contribute for that awkward getting-your-skills-back time.

4. The XP cap for SoA is 2.95M XP, but the XP cap for ToB is 8M. The reason why you would dual immediately if you only had SoA is because you would just barely reach 13/14 under the SoA experience cap, spending most of your time waiting to get your skills back, but you can do so easily (13/28, even) under the ToB experience cap.

Ok things make a bit more sense now. But my problem still remains knowing what to give to Nalia or whether I should wait till I save Imoen (and then give Imoen the spells - esp the high end ones). For example, is there any point giving Nalia the Summon Nishuru spell? (just an example).

Well, if you're going to drop Nalia for Imoen, you might as well hold off unless you've got a whole lot of a particular kind of scroll (like the Monster Summoning II, Oracle, and Minor Spell Deflection pack you get regularly from bandits). If you're going to keep them both, in addition to your PC, you've got some decisions to make on who should get what. But I'm afraid I really can't advise you what specific spells to give to who. You've got to decide that based on your own playing style.

Imoen may be lower level than Nalia when you get her, if you do all the quests to get massive XP for Nalia. Then changing Nalia for Imoen may weaken your party. If you plan to have both (which is not a that bad idea, you can never have enough mages, as they single handedly rule the game in ToB), then give high level scrolls to Nalia as she will be able to cast them earlier. If you plan to kick Nalia out of your paty when you get Immy, then obviously do not give precious, rare, or high level scrolls to Nalia, as it will be a waste.

Tell us what you plan to do, and what scrolls you have, for example, and we will help you in detail.

Ah, and one last thing, as Felinoid kindly stated you should have posted this in ToB forum, since you have ToB installed, but don't worry, it is not a problem since you are still a newbie here, and mods will carry this fine topic to ToB forum soon. ;)

My advice is: Dual your Kensai right now at level 9, don't wait any longer.

With 16+ con you gain 6 HP if you reach level 10 as mage, but only 3 as fighter.

If you play a kensai 13/mage X you will get for the duration of your game:

40 percent: a kensai you are already bored of
30 percent: a mage without kensai strengths (except HP) but with kensai weaknesses
30 percent: a kensai 13/mage who will be always weaker than a kensai9/mage because his mage part is 2-3 levels lower.

A kensai 13/28 is strong at the ToB XP Cap (8,000,000) but you won't reach it unless you play a small party or abuse game mechanics by spending many,many hours by fighting endlessly respawning monsters or scribing and erasing spells.


About Nalia learning spells:

There are only about 4-5 spells per level you will really need during the game and only a few of them aren't available more than 2 times.
You can have Nalia learn the others for increased party XP.
She doesn't need more than 2-3 spells/level either.

The best solution for you is probably getting Imoen as fast as possible.
The chapter 2 and 3 side quests can still be done in chapter6 and you probably won't stop bothering about wasting spells and XP until you have her back.

Getting Imoen back isn't too hard, especially if you have bought the girdle of hill giant strength and the quarterstoff +4 from Ribald, the flail of ages from Nalia's quest and a cleric in your party.

kmonster: I agree with your 40/30/30 breakdown and it would make sense if I was about to level to 9. However I am actually ON level 9 and going to 10 soon. So the problems is - should I stick it out till 13 or dual *even at level 10*?

silverstar: I'm going to throw out Nalia when I get Imoen (I believe Imoen is a better thief?). Anyway, this is my new big question: I have the 20 grand so I should be able to go rescue Imoen now... if I do that, and I bid farewell to Nalia is there a chance to later go help her with her Keep? Also, Anomen's sister's been murdered - is it okay to leave this quest (and other side-quests) for now and go find Imoen first? Will I be able to do the quests once I've found Imoen?? That's my question.

(Incidentally this my party so far which is basically how I want it to be except Imoen to be in the place of Nalia: Me, Keldorn, Minsc, Anomen, Jaheira, Nalia)

The difference between level 10 or 13 are 750,000 XP, that's 2 mage levels for +4 HP,+4 thac0, +1 damage, +1 speed factor and +1/2 attack/round.
I'd dual at level 13, but a kensai10/mage is also strong enough.
Just do what you like, it's not that important since you are only one of 6 party members.


If you have the gold then pay it immediately, it will take a full chapter until you can leave with a ship.
NPCs leave if you don't do their quests in time.
Anomen's side quest is short, so do it first.
Nalia also will leave if you don't help her fast enough, but she will wait for you at her home afterwards.
You get a better reward from Nalia if she is in your party when finishing her quest, I would do it before you leave.

If you want power: dual at level 13.

If you want fun: dual now. You already said you're bored.

@Klorox
ah, but power=fun!
Its never fun having a weak PC and reloading back to some annoyingly earlier save every time you die.

But then again i've never seen dual classes as fun, solo it leaves me too vunerable and in a team i prefer not to have any weak links.

If you want a spellcasting fighter, the F/M or F/Ill is the way to go!

ok so i basically *have* to do the sidequests first... I was wondering whether my party members would walk out on me. ok thanks all. I'll dual at 10 = more fun I hope.

No NPC will leave you in the Underdark I believe (all the quest timers are paused)... though they may leave you immediately upon getting out of the Underdark.

No NPC will leave you in the Underdark Haer Dalis can. Evil characters will still leave when your rep gets too high, as well.

lol i dont even know what the underdark is... :p don't worry i'm happy to find out for myself.

Pseudospawn said:

@Klorox
ah, but power=fun! Not for everybody, but I'd probably be included in that description! :p

You're right Drew. However, if I am thinking correctly then it's not from quests...

Other than alignment issues, the only one I can think of is the Aerie/HaerDalis/Charname triangle which iirc can actually cause you to lose two party members if you play your cards the wrong way. Other than that, there shouldn't be any other potential pitfalls.