I want you to vote for which among the most talked about classes in this fine game is the most powerful. I know you cannot actually compare them technically, as each might have different strengths, etc etc. But on the whole, based on your own opinion, which is the most powerful class?

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 76 user(s) have voted.
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Poll Results: Most powerful class? (76 votes.)

Most powerful class? (Choose 1)
* Kensai (with dualclasses) - 7% (5)
* Archer - 1% (1)
* Sorcerer - 43% (33)
* Assassin - 1% (1)
* Ranger/Cleric - 8% (6)
* Blade - 8% (6)
* Inquisitor - 4% (3)
* Monk - 3% (2)
* Fighter/Mage - 4% (3)
* Fighter/Thief - 1% (1)
* Fighter/Mage/Thief - 4% (3)
* Other...please specify in your posts - 16% (12)

I would say sorcerers just because they can make themselves near invicable, and on the otherside are able to blow apart enemies in no time at all.

If you want to you will literally never run out of spells as a sorcerer. (Wish and/or Spell Trap)
Once your sorcerer gets access to Project Image it's over.

I went for r/c because they get so much good protecting spells and still have decent offense. By the way my r/c laughs at a buffed sorc when he casts Nature's Beauty.

I think the sorcerer is definitly the most powerful class.

However, I would say the best class is a blade. Although a sorcerer may be more powerful, when you get to the point that any enemy in the game is a piece of cake, power doesn't really matter as much. Plus, I think the blade has some of the coolest ways of killing it's enemies. Nothing better then running into a fight with 4 misleads all singing improved bardsong, throwing in an introductory skull trap, then killing them all with offensive spin!

Swashbuckler, definately. A well placed hit (no backstab, but gets bonuses to hit & damage) from the shadows can take down any near enough anything, and with a decent pair of weapons and a nice critical hit... marvellous!

No argument. Archer.

Best sorcerer in the world wouln't be able to get a spell off againts a high level archer with high quality arrows.

Throw in his HLA's and he's an animal.

I do believe that a Thief/Mage is the most powerful of all classes.

1) Cast Mislead.
2) Cast Improved Invisibility on clone.
3) Cast Spell Immunity: Divination.
4) Backstab over and over to your hearts content, with absolutely no interruption.

The only thing that can mess with that is Glitterdust, and enemies never cast that. With Belm you can attack for about 60-75 on average 2 times a round.

Other than that, I'd say a Fighter/Mage can handle absolutely anything thrown at him.

The Blade.

In a game where just about any ability can be improved to epic proportions, it helps if you're well versed at everything, so when the opportunity for improvement comes...

The other good thing about the Blade is that he has no real weaknesses. While the Sorcerer is supreme when it all amounts to raw magical power, he has his fair share of exploitable weaknesses. No amount of protection will ever be enough to defend anything against everything in this game, and when it all comes down to it no single skill will ever be enough to take on every situation possible as well.
(ie, All Magic or All Melee won't work everywhere - apparent enough in several mods) So it really helps if you have other skills to fall back to.

This versatility is present only on the FMT, the FMC and the Bard, and the Blade is the best among them.

I think fighter/mage or thief/mage are preety powerful

The Blade.

I agree with everything Scythesong has said.

You can tank, melee, cast and sing with the best of them. While my fighters prove useless against certain foes, me Blade can cats magic or sing. While my mage(s) find their spells ineffective and have to hids, my Blade can step up and fight/tank. With Tensers, my Blade had 200+ hitpoints, had way better AC and was far more effective than Korgan. Plus UAI, means you can pick the best equipment there is and back-up any other character.

my r/c laughs at a buffed sorc when he casts Nature's Beauty. Best sorcerer in the world wouln't be able to get a spell off againts a high level archer with high quality arrows.We're not talking about PvP here folks!

A sorcerer normally never has eye contact with his enemy. He uses farsight to direct his summons and spells. A Project Image is casting all the spells and using the quick slot items.
Meanwhile the sorcerer sits out of danger and directs the battle.
Only as a last resort will he engage personally, probably by preparing with a Wish to get fully rested and then a Time Stop/Improved Alacrity combo just before stepping in.

This is why I think the Sorcerer is the most powerful class.

Aye. Sorc is the single most powerful class, in the game at least. With the right spells you can overrule the magic resistances in a split second (Improved Alacrity, Pierce Magic etc), break the spellbarriers, and then just proceed with the slaughter. Unless opposed by a powerful mage, a sorcerer can also protect himself against just about everything for a fairly long time considering the amount of spells in his possession. And a fairly long time is definitely not a luxury their opponents have.

If we were talking about PvP, then one single magic immunity scroll used by a character able to read it and do powerful melee as well, would prove near unbeatable by a sorc. Then again if we were talking about PvP, a sorc wouldn't stand idly by in a situation like that. Instead he'd teleport the heck out of there, and retaliate another time... probably succesfully as well.

In any case, in Forgotten Realms magic is the most potent power of all. The more levels you have, the more important powerful magics become. Any character wishing to strike down a magic-user needs powerful magic themselves. The question is unfair because in BG2 you have an over-abundance of powerful magical items able to rival the power a mage has. Still a blade may be versatile, but his magic cannot even hope to compare against a full-fledged sorc. While he might strike down a few unwary magic users with either surprise attacks or by using unexpected items of great magical power, in the end when a mage / sorc prepared for just that would come accross him, there's not much he could do.

Okay, maybe I'm a little biased, but I've always thought that the Cavalier kit is one of the most powerful ones I've come across. I hated getting hit with a poison arrow or something and be stuck there twitching until someone can give me an antidote or cast slow poison...and those mutated spiders' and Wraith spiders' could mean instant death without a save! And fear always bugged me...without a protection spell on, my whole PARTY sometimes ended up running about (VERY bad with traps around!). So, a paladin with immunity to poison and fear, resistance to acid and fire AND cleric spells? Sign me up! I hardly even miss the missile weapons I sacrificed.

If we're talking straight-up power, then the Sorceror. Due to several exploits available to them, they have it over everyone else in the game in a straight fight. Project Image is borderline cheese, as is Wish. You just need to be patient (and not mind bending the basic principles of reality). A fully prepared Sorceror (or even Mage) is virtually impossible to get a shot at, let alone kill. Of course, to get the most out of your Sorceror, you have to assume that he/she is psychic as well and knows what to expect around every corner - give a newbie a sorceror and watch it get splattered.

That said, give someone who knows what they're doing either a Blade, Swashbuckler or Assassin and that sorceror is as dead as Julius Caesar. All the arcane spell defences in the world can't stop traps and a lethal dose of poison, and the Assassin only needs one hit to do it. A Blade can rip down spell defences as well, the Assassin has poison to his advantage (which Tananda has noted), and the Swashbuckler can use Whirlwind in a sneak attack to take out Mirror Images, Stoneskins, etc. Sure, it's not a fair fight, but that wasn't the question. Equipped with minimal magic items, basic skills/spell picks and with the same amount of XP, I'd back a high-level thief over a single mage any day of the week in competent hands. The only thing is that this tactic doesn't apply so well in the game against groups of 'uge slobbering monsters as it does in a one-on-one fight.

@ Earl: How many Sorcerors always pick Farsight? You're the first person I've seen mention it. Makes perfect sense, though.

... give someone who knows what they're doing either a Blade, Swashbuckler or Assassin and that sorceror is as dead as...Again with the PvP comparison. I don't think it's a good idea since that's not what this game is about.
It's a good idea to explain why a class is good, but I object when it's put in a PvP context, when it should be PvM or PvGame.
This is not Diablo, this is a single player game.

Taking Farsight or not depends in part on if you want to avoid reloads. Without Farsight or some other means of scouting and directing the battle in safety you run a greater risk.
There are several other good spells at level 4 - Stoneskin, Greater Malison, Spider Spawn (best early summons), Minor Sequencer, Polymorph Self - so it's no wonder if people at times do not take Farsight.
However for the full solo sorcerer experience Farsight is IMO mandatory. :)

Invisibility and the right Familiar work really well as well. The rabbit(TN) is cool as he can detect traps pretty well, especially in TOB, plus he is always hasted and can run away very quickly.

I kinda like a fully up'd single class Kensai. Gib's anything in seconds at high levels.

Or a Kensai mixed with any other class is obscenely powerful aswell.

I've had most fun in the game with a Berserker though truth be told. On my first run through.

After a little consideration, I think this question needs to be revised to take into account the stages of the game. Roughly speaking, the "early game" probably lasts until about level 12 or 13, the "mid-game" is until about level 17 or 18 for most characters, "late game" lasts until about 25th to 28th level, and "end game" is everything thereafter. I think the key defining attributes of power are access to magic, stealth and ability to meet more than one requirement for the game (ie: versatility).

Early game: Fighter/Mage or Fighter/Mage/Thief. At this point, the Sorceror hasn't got his game-breaking spells, the Bard isn't quite as powerful as he becomes later, and any dual-classed character is still getting their abilities back. The other two classes are stronger from the get-go.

Mid-game: Dual-class Kensai/Mage, Mage/Thief, Bards and F/M. Again, being able to do a couple of different things well is enough here - you don't have to be super-specialised yet, and the multi-class characters aren't so far behind the single-class characters yet. The Sorceror is just about at that level in the mid-game, but only really shoots into orbit when he gets his highest-level spells and HLAs.

Late game: Sorceror and Bards (esp. Blade), if for no other reason than he levels up faster, making him slightly stronger. Fighter/Mage and F/M/T just behind them, but dropping back due to lack of levels.

End game: Sorceror; by this point in time, rules and any semblance of realism do not apply to them any more.

I think NonSequitur makes a good point about dividing up the game into parts. However instead of going by levels perhaps dividing it into xp intervals would work better?

This would make cross class comparisons fairer.
Example: comparing a level 12 Paladin with a level 12 Thief is not fair since it takes the Paladin 1.2m xp to get there while the Thief gets there after 440k xp.

Classifying it in terms of early, mid and late is not a perfect solution since it implies progress made in the main quest and that can differ very much.
Using terms like Low, Medium, High and Very High levels are more appropriate.

Low: up to 999,999 xp
Mid: 1,000,000 - 2,999,999 xp
High: 3,000,000 - 4,999,999 xp
V. High: 5,000,000 - 8,000,000 xp

A Sorcerer would have these intervals:
Low: up to level 12
Mid: level 13-17
High: level 18-23
V. High: level 24-31

A Paladin would have these:
Low: up to level 11
Mid: level 12-17
High: level 18-24
V. High: level 25-34

A Bard would have these:
Low: up to level 14
Mid: level 15-23
High: level 24-32
V. High: level 33-40

I think this works quite well.
3m xp is a natural point as this is when ToB HLA's kick in (except for dual class characters).
5m xp also works well since at this point single class characters have matured and any further levels they gain are actually of very marginal use.

Stealing classes also need consideration. Although stolen items are not as good as the ones we encounter during our adventures, most classes who can steal may just as well own early game due to their items. By the time they reach mid-game their skills have been pre-developed enough that few things are worth a challenge anymore. This applies in particular to three classes - Bards, FMT's and MT's.

Like I just posted elsewhere, Just after Irenicus' dungeon you can acquire all low/mid level spellscrolls and full plates not to mention ring of regen and other stuff which you can sell to buy something nice from adventurer's mart.

... most classes who can steal may just as well own early game due to their items. By the time they reach mid-game their skills have been pre-developed enough that few things are worth a challenge anymore.Please elaborate!
I don't see how they are any different from any other class.

@ Earl Grey

My take on Scythesong's post is that by the time my M/T or F/M/T leaves the Promenade, he is wearing the Robe of Vecna, carrying the Staff of Rhynn (+4 weapon), wearing Bracers AC 3 and a Ring of Regeneration, has a spellbook filled with all manner of excellent spells, and still has a huge amount of money in the bank. Thus, I bascially start the game with the best Robe, the best bracers, a great weapon, and lots of spells. The only remaining magical items I feel I *need* to easily beat SoA and ToB are the Staff of the Magi and the Amulet of Power (is that the right name? The Amulet you get from Aran Linvael when you sign up with the Shadow Thieves). But since I also emerge from the Promenade with two scrolls of Protection from Magic and a +4 weapon, the Staff of the Magi, and also the Ring of Gaxx, will soon be mine; and having tons of money means that I can pay off the Shadow Thieves and get the Amulet quickly -- making Chapter 2 the shortest chapter in the game. And if I am playing a F/M/T then I will also start with the Shield of Cheese and the Chesse Helm.

Thus, I agree with Scythesong. A stealing character will bascially start the game with close to everything they need to beat the game handily. A non-stealing class will take a *long* time to accumulate enough gold to make all the purchases that I acquired before starting Chapter 2. Thus, a stealing class has a big advantage in equipment that will make them more powerful than any other class for quite some time.

[ August 11, 2004, 18:00: Message edited by: Khemsa ]

Since PvP is out, it seems the discussion implies soloing. After all, who needs a thieving character if you can get Yoshimo and Potions of Master Thievery to do all the work for you?

I like Earl Grey's idea of xp intervals. The game reinforces this idea with the xp NPC's have when they join your party (1.2M is the highest in SoA IIRC). During the Low interval, F/T is another strong contender. I pretty much agree with NonSequitur for the rest :) .

@Khemsa
Yes, stealing does that.

However the rest of the quote I don't understand.
... By the time they reach mid-game their skills have been pre-developed enough that few things are worth a challenge anymore.By "mid-game" any party has bought (or stolen) what they need and developed their skills. What makes a "stealing class" so special here?
What is meant by "pre-developed"?

@Drumheller
... it seems the discussion implies soloing. After all, who needs a thieving character if you can get Yoshimo and Potions of Master Thievery to do all the work for you?It does not have to be about soloing. A character is not less powerful just because there is an NPC of that class. I think Keldorn is a good example. IMO Inquisitor is a great kit, it's just that (if memory serves me) I've never had my protagonist be an Inquisitor since Keldorn is available.

It does not have to be about soloing. A character is not less powerful just because there is an NPC of that class. You're right, but it's assumed that the classes that are candidates for 'most powerful' are versatile enough to be self-sufficient. In the context of a party, even the weakest classes can have their shortcomings negated. A party is more powerful than the mere sum of it's characters.

It does not have to be about soloing, but in the context of a party, a class's power can change dramatically, at any stage of the game.

In most situations wizards and sorcerers are the most powerful. However, trouble starts when something is resistant to magic.

Clerical magic can be as potent as arcane in the right hands. And clerics don't blow so hard in melee.

Inquisitors are overrated if you consider Carsomyr, but they would make an extremely powerful class absent that insta-dispel on one hit. They would probably be the relatively most powerful class in the game, although they still couldn't survive a duel with a fighter with the same amount of XP and the same stats.

Cavaliers make good tanks, have some bonuses against the enemies that are quite hard to hit, like dragons, and they can still lay hands or cast spells - Draw upon Holy Might changes the perspective somewhat.

Swashbucklers when they dual-wield katanas and are specialised in them (which requires you to correct a bug manually in the right 2DA file). They need Use Any Item before they can become uber. Then they wear Shurupak's Plate and wield Carsomyr or some such.

Can't tell. I've only played anything other than Cavalier as an NPC, without creating it myself. Except maybe helping my brother create his uber swashbuckler, but it was he who played it, anyway.

@Khemsa- That kind of stealing always seems a bit cheesy to me, as 1) it tends to rely on "Power Word: Reload" when it fails (of course, because every NPC becomes a homicial maniac when you fail, for some reason); 2) it just seems strange to me from an RP standpoint that you would be able to steal bulky, über-powerful, über-expensive items from Ribald et al., both logistically, in terms of shoplifting a full set of armor, and in the context of the game, as the loss of such expensive items would presumably drive the shop out of business; and 3) I know that FR is supposed to be awash in magic, but having über-powerful items available at the local stop-n-shop kindof spoils things for me (and let's not start on all the ToB merchants with a full array of +3 gear). I often tried limiting my reliance on shop-purchased gear for that very reason; if it's a powerful artifact, it just makes more RP sense that attaining it would be difficult, and that it's owners would guard it very, very carefully...

Then again, 1) more items means more styles of play and more replay value, and 2) powergaming can occasionally be fun, so why not...

Determining the most powerful character probably relies on many factors, including experience with the game, style of play, etc. I chose "Inquisitor," as it's arguably the most powerful character across the whole population of BG2 players. Why? Because the majority people who have played or are playing BG2 aren't the kind of avid players who hang around SP, are quite experienced with CRPGs, and have played through BG2 numerous times. So, I'm assuming that the majority of BG2 gamers: 1) are relative noobs, with a general but not in-depth knowledge of BG2 and 2E rules; 2) tend to behave "virtuously" relative to quest outcomes; and 3) recruit a full compliment of 5 NPCs (most likely including Jaheira, Minsc, Yoshimo/Imoen, and Aerie). Given these assumptions, it seems to me that the Inquisitor would be the most powerful character class for most BG2 players, as 1) the least demanding combat strategy is to chunk your opponent with swords; 2) the most demanding encounters for new players tend to be the magical ones, and the Inquisator's über dispel and true sight were almost designed to allow new players to shift the strategy back to enemy-chunking; 3) following on #2, one of the things that can make taking a party more difficult than soloing is worrying about confused/charmed/dominated party members, and the Inquisitor again has the ultimate reset; 4) Paladins tend to get high ability scores due to their high requirements; 5) the sword of cheese; 6) a rewarding stronghold; 7) etc.

While I would agree that other classes can be more powerful than the Inquisitor for experienced players, if a new player asked me what I would suggest as the most powerful character for his or her first run-through of the game, I would nominate the Inquisitor.

I think that the most powerful is ranger/cleric - 1) is good warrior - protective spells and ranger's abilities
2) can summon elementals like druid to help in fight
3) have spells of cleric and druid together

Berserker/Mage, no doubt about it. Kensages might be "cooler" but they don't get to wear armor, bracers, or helmets. And they can't use Enrage. Just use your magic to crush your foes, if they're resistant you just set up Tenser's Transformation and Improved Haste. There is not a single enemy I have found in the game that can stand toe to toe against that.

Kensai/thief

With Use Any Item, they can wear armour and use things like Carsomyr and Gauntlets of Extreme Specilization.

Death on two legs.

Still being the only one who has voted a single-class thief - although I would've preferred him without a kit - I should give some reasons why I picked this class.

1) Backstab takes care of most opponents.
2) Stealth lets you pick your fights and arrange them to your liking.
It also helps you get away from tough fights to heal/buff.
3) Open locks / Find traps not only saves you from harm but gives much needed experience.
4) Steal gives you that equipment you need.
5) Use Any Item

I know thief class lacks fighting ability of a fighter, but if you need that, there is a thief kit called Swashbuckler.

Thief doesn't have access to spell casting skills, except scrolls with Use Any Item feat. In this case you might consider multi-class mage/thief, though I still prefer single-classed one.

That is what makes a thief my kind of guy/girl. Prepared for (almost) anything.

@Scythesong: I know you're going to say that Bard/Blade has those abilities (fighting and spell casting) a thief can only gain by multi-classing, but he has no other thief skills than stealing. That's why I'm not so interested in bardic classes.

EDIT: Yirimyah just gave a one really good thief variation. I wouldn't have remembered that one myself. It can be a little tricky to get that guy to level where you get UAI, but after that...

1) Backstab takes care of most opponents.
Except the really hard ones.
Killing an opponent with one backstab is also far from a sure thing, especially with a single class thief. Then there is the small matter of fighting more than one opponent at the same time. ;)

2) Stealth lets you pick your fights and arrange them to your liking.
It also helps you get away from tough fights to heal/buff.
Other options for picking your fights include using Wizard Eye, Farsight or Invisibility.
Hide while in the sight of the enemy? Not so good. So what you mean is you run away and hide behind a corner, right?
Well, you could also use haste and really run away. Or you could have a character that does not have to run away in the first place. :)

3) Open locks / Find traps not only saves you from harm but gives much needed experience.
I agree that the experience is nice, but then this character loses experience by chosing to use stealth to avoid some fights.

4) Steal gives you that equipment you need.
Or you could just buy it.

5) Use Any Item
Yes, after 3.08m xp. It's a nice HLA. The best use I've seen for it is to get 100% MR.
Carsomyr is often mentioned, but remember that you can't backstab with this weapon.

IMO a single class thief is far from the most powerful class. A multiclass Fighter/Thief surpasses the standard thief in every way imaginable. The same is true with regard to the Mag/Thi and Cle/Thi.

Except the really hard ones. Killing an opponent with one backstab is also far from a sure thing, especially with a single class thief. Then there is the small matter of fighting more than one opponent at the same time.

There will always be those harder opponents. Different tactic is to be used with these. In case of mages these are magic resistant/immune creatures and so on.

Other options for picking your fights include using Wizard Eye, Farsight or Invisibility.

Those are wizard's means to do that.

Hide while in the sight of the enemy? Not so good. So what you mean is you run away and hide behind a corner, right?

IIRC, You can hide in plain sight if you have enough stealth to do that. With UAI and Mage staff you can do it quite easily. Equip -> Hide -> Stab

Or you could have a character that does not have to run away in the first place.

But then you'd have other problems. For example traps.

I agree that the experience is nice, but then this character loses experience by chosing to use stealth to avoid some fights.

I didn't say fights are to be avoided. It was just one option.

Or you could just buy it.

you don't have to fight a single fight to get that EQ / money as a thief. Makes the early game easier.

Carsomyr is often mentioned, but remember that you can't backstab with this weapon.

Personally I don't like Carsomyr, but it can be on second weapon slot and equipped only when a hostile spell is being cast.

IMO a single class thief is far from the most powerful class. A multiclass Fighter/Thief surpasses the standard thief in every way imaginable. The same is true with regard to the Mag/Thi and Cle/Thi.

Single class gives levels more quickly than multi-class thus giving UAI faster.

Someone might say wizards are more powerful, but it all comes down to personal preference. Personally I'm not that good with wizard spells (though I'm right now playing one and still learning.)

Multiclassed Fighter/Thief. To be short, they have very good fighting ability (almost equal singleclass Fighter, because of the skill cap), plus backstab, set trap, use any item, assasination at least 4 times/round, and pretty much everything else except singing and casting spells whenever you want.

And I like them better than some robe-wearing Fighter anyway :p :D

(On a side note: the Time Traps do stack, which make this class really powerful if combine with Assassination)

Farsight can be cast by clerics and anyone (except the wizard slayer) can use Rings of Invisibility/Ring of Air Control or Potion of Invisibility.

Magic Resistance is not a major problem for mages, they use summons (Skeleton Warriors and Mordenkainen's Swords).

Traps? No problem, just soak up the damage and move on.


Single class gives levels more quickly than multi-class thus giving UAI faster. Not true!
Multiclass characters gain their first HLA at 3m xp, which in the case of the Fig/Thi actually means that he can get UAI before a single class thief!

Now this might go a little off topic, but HLA's are given according to XP, and not levels?
So every character, be it a single class thief or a Fighter/mage/thief gains their HLA's at the same time? :o

Hmmm...maybe somone can help me, I'm considering starting a completly new game (from the start of SoA through to ToB),do I use; multiclass F/M, multiclass F/M/T or Dual Class F/M (my current PC)? :confused:

The first HLA is gained the first time the character gains a level at or after 3m xp.

Dual class only count the xp of their second class in determining when they get HLA's.

@Slayer of the Coast
Perhaps you should start a new thread instead with more information about which other party members you want to take etc.
It would be off topic to discuss it further here.

@Earl Grey
Will do, I'm sure evryone will find it fun answering another "what charater should I use" question ;)

The thief doesn't need extra attacks to take care of mirror images (simply use "detect illusion" which can be enabled while the thief is invisible)

The most powerful class (with the right items ;) ) would be either a dualled Swashbuckler/Fighter or a half-elf Cleric/Ranger.

If you have true grand mastery the Swashbuckler/Fighter is the best option.

-Gets bonus to his AC and to hit and D (level 15 +4AC, +3 to hit and D)

-can set traps and use thieving abilities.

-as a fighter can achieve +++++ !!

This character would be quite powerful with 5 attacks per round, true he lacks magic but with good items (even if he can't "use any item") he will be able to cope with any situation.

The Cleric/Ranger's real asset is the ability to cast both clerical and druidic spells (ironskins for instance)... rangers get dual wielding abilities easily and you can quickly find some very nice and powerful weapons.

By "mid-game" any party has bought (or stolen) what they need and developed their skills.Maybe I shouldn't have used the term mid-game (since it appears we have different views on when this actually happens).

My point is that stealing classes will get powerful (to the point of being overpowered) long before any other class. Party-wise this may benefit other classes more than the stealing class itself, but without the stealing class the party wouldn't be powerful in the first place.

I agree with Scythesong. I once started up a Blade (after reading Scythesong's guide, of course), and I found that an hour after leaving Irenicus' Dungeon, I was lvl 12, with my guy equipped with Blade of the Roses +3 (till I could get Celestial Fury), Robe of Vecna, Dakkon Zerth's Blade, Bracers of AC 3, Girdle of Hill Giant Strength.

2 hours later...he had Boots of Speed, Melodic Chain +3, Belm +2, Celestial Fury, and just about all the spell scrolls which could be bought.

Stealing classes can get so powerful so quick, its not even funny.

Wow, I never really thought about stealing so much!

Anyway, here's a great thread about Berserker/Clerics (and other C/R and C/F combos) making the greatest class in the game: LINK (http://www.sorcerers.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/10/2673.html?)

If you don't like multiclasses (Ranger/Clerics are great!!!) the Berserker/Cleric is not bad but think about a Berserker/Druid instead ;)

Options is the key...so it has to be MU/Thief... Steal the best equipment. Get experience at low levels for doing nearly nothing (pick locks, find traps and learn spells). You can get to 1M experience points by just wandering around. Traps, Backstab, UAI, Mislead, SI divination alone is pretty good but then you add all the other MU spells. Would give a straight sorcerer a run for his money in a straight fight and is so much more fun to play.

Having the strongest character it really depends what your going up against. But personaly i think sorcerer's suck due to their lack of defense and by the time he just starts casting one of his spells he probably be dead because he has so many to choose from not even half of his spells actually do dmg without a bad effect happening and you have to know all your spells or your screwed. You also need to rest constintly. Did i mention that the sorcerer is pathietic at the beginning? I dont want to have to wait 10 lvls to actually do dmg to a weakling. I know a lot of you might disagree but sorcerers are weak! I seriously dont see how they own because they are so valunrable. I personaly Think human fighter is better because if he/she max's the mastery of any type of the weapons they can be quite deadly and they wont be defenseless!

Then you just don't know how to play a sorcerer (not that I'm any expert).

It's generally acknowledged that a sorcerer is one of the most powerful classes in the game. Of course, this requires a knowledge of which spells are effective in what circumstances, and that may be your problem. (Again, I make no claim that I'm any better.)

Lol ive just never seen a sorcerer in action before maybe that will change my mind

@Shandris: This might be redundant, considering the sheer volume of similar threads on this board, BUT...

Have you considered Sorcerer's who have actually selected spells such as:

*Stoneskin
*Protection From Magic Weapons
*Mislead
*Mirror Image
*Spell Immunity
*Protection from Energy

??

PfMW has a casting time of 1!! That means, it is cast instantaneously, meaning that the Sorcerer then is free to cast 4 spells of his choosing, with no interruptions, atleast, from people actually hitting him with anything.

Stoneskin has an almost 12 hour duration, which means he can have that on him all day...which again protects him from atleast 5 attacks or so...which should be another couple of rounds which he is good for.

Mirror Image can throw up 3-8 images, which again, gives him at the least, a couple of rounds of safety.

Mislead cast together with Spell Immunity: Divination, which guarantees around 10 rounds at a minimum, of invisibility from any character in the game, which lets him cast another 10 rounds.

So you can see, the Sorcerer can VERY efficiently sidestep the minor inconvenience of people trying to hit him...he can be so well protected within an INSTANT, that melee classes cannot dream of touching him.

Now...while he has all these measures to protect himself, he can use such spells as:

*Timestop (pwnage for 3 rounds)
*Skulltrap (HUGE damage at higher levels)
*Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting ('nuff said :cool: )
*Dragon's Breath (depends on the availability of 9th lvl spell slots)
*Comet (personal preference, interchange with Dragon's Breath)
*Magic Missile (good for interrupting enemy spellcasters such as mages and clerics, also for magic resistant characters, as a couple always get through)
*Lower Magic, Pierce Shield, Pierce Magic (all excellent spells to reduce enemy magic resistance and spell protections)
*Greater Malison (one cast of this almost always ensures full damage of your damage spells)

I'm sorry, but I'm a great advocate of the Sorcerer, as other folks here might know. :shake:

So, I feel compelled to ask you, what on EARTH do you mean by the Sorcerer being useless?

If anything, by comparison, he makes the other classes in the game look useless, embarassingly so. :flaming: (just kidding mate, but you SHOULD see how Sorcerer's are anything BUT useless now. ;) )

EDIT:PS:You might notice that I've mentioned a lot of fairly lower level spells. You dont HAVE to wait 10 levels to be a God in BG2, if you know what you're doing. ;)

You dont HAVE to wait 10 levels to be a God in BG2, if you know what you're doing. Considering that you are a Bhaalspawn... :D
Mage/clerics can be very powerful too :evil:

Sorcerers are great from the start. I actually have to think of a way to get through an encounter :) My latest idea that Earl Grey mentioned and I'm sure many have tried before is; get farsight and project image... now I can hide my 'weakling' sorcerer on the other side of a map and send his image in. Too low level at the mo, so I don't know if this will be effective.

As for the most powerful class. Well it is the sorcerer IMO, but I think the fighter/thief and fighter/druid MC's are very good. Although you have to know how to use them.

[ September 04, 2004, 04:07: Message edited by: Malovae ]

I dont get it, why is mislead with SI: Divination good? few ppl mentioned it. I mean in a thief perspective. Please explain.

Though i hate to admit it, sorcerer is my choice. What Faraaz said is true, but those are just general game play... wait till you hear about exploits... 7 planetars and 7 skelly warriors n 7 mordekian are no fun all from the expense of one spell.

With the correct spell combo, all creatures are whimps.

Next would be F/T.

I dont get it, why is mislead with SI: Divination good? few ppl mentioned it. I mean in a thief perspective. Please explain. SI:Divination protects against spells which may dispell the Mislead. Mislead allows unlimited backstabs.

Though i hate to admit it, sorcerer is my choice. What Faraaz said is true, but those are just general game play... wait till you hear about exploits... 7 planetars and 7 skelly warriors n 7 mordekian are no fun all from the expense of one spell.Wait till you hear of Blade exploits...
Exploit-wise the self-proclaimed Lord of Cheesiness (and thus, most powerful class) is the Blade.

Next would be F/T. The only real difference between a Sorcerer and a Mage is the spell count. IMO, the Mage comes a lot closer to the Sorcerer than the F/T. Think Edwin and go figure.

@Scythesong: Care to share some of those cheesy exploits with us? :D I'm always game for something which can chunk enemies in more creative ways. :D

I dunno, the Sorcerer can do some pretty awesome stuff, like the Spell-Trap-->Power Word:Kill trick, which isn't exactly cheating, but allows the Sorcerer to restore his spell-book almost infinite times. Then there is the "Ultra-mileage" technique, of spamming Project Image, etc etc.

I don't know how a Blade can compare with these...so, enlighten me! :cool:

The Blade can make multiple images, abuse Wish (via a scroll casted by a Simulacrum from the Helm of Vhailor), spam Simulacrums (which can further spam Simulacrums/Misleads, etc.... have half of these sing and let the others do the rest... Think Enhanced Bard Song bonuses X20, if you will), and use just about every exploit there is for the Fighter, Thief and Mage classes, as long as its not HLA-specific. (ie, abuse stat-draining items, turn into Mindflayer/s with -20 THAC0, lay consecutive Timestop traps/Spike Traps.)
If you want you can arrange to have all those images wield stat-draining items in their off-hand, then use Melf's Minute Meteors+Improved Haste on them to reach 10 attacks per round. Some Fire Elementals from the Staff of Fire would also fit in nicely. (Not exactly the best of summons, but with Enhanced Bard Song Xn even a Planetar pales in comparison)

Finally there is one ability unique to the Bard Class - the ability to exploit foreknowledge. :)
That ridiculously high lore can come in very useful.

"like the Spell-Trap-->Power Word:Kill trick"
Hadn't thought about that. A new tactic to add to my list. ;)

[ September 04, 2004, 12:22: Message edited by: Scythesong Immortal ]

The only real difference between a Sorcerer and a Mage is the spell count.Not really, the difference becomes clearer when using spells like PI or Wish.

[ September 09, 2004, 09:26: Message edited by: Chimera ]

Once the Mage decides to go all damage-purpose, he's a sorcerer some spells less from the real one, but not far from being just as deadly.

Yes, but a mage has to choose a set of spells, and his PI will have the same set to its disposal. A sorcerer's PI can choose spells anytime, six potential Wishes can be :evil: .

well i can't tell if it's the *most* powerful charcter, but i know this one is pretty powerful.
i'd throw in a dual-classed berserker (lvl9) / mage.

hp : around 100

proficiencies : 5* in longswords, 3* in 2-weapon-style, 1* staffs

equpiment : day star, (what's the name of the longsword cromwell can forge - i play the german version ), staff of the magi, bladesinger chainmail (or at times vecna's robe) , balduran's helmet, gauntlets of weapon expertise, amulet of power, boots of speed, girdle of str=21 (forgot which giants)

at the end of soa, he can cast time stop. he doesn't care the slightest bit about fighter hlas - imp. haste and tensers transdormation give him 8 attacks per round for 18 rounds doing around 25/35 points of damage each, if he wants to. with tenser he's got about 190-200 hps. oh sure, he can always cast simulacrum beforehands, that makes him two.

that makes me wonder how anyone can seriously prefer a mc f/m to a dc b/m.

It just depends on how much you can justify abusing the game engine. If that doesn't matter to you, then at later levels a Sorceror is broken and will lay waste to anything in his path. Bards (particularly Blades) and Mage-Thieves using infinite backstabs can be vicious as well. All, however, involve some extremely liberal rationalisation and a level of power-gaming that is based more on breaking the system than on any semblance of proportionality.

If you prefer a less exploitative game style, then I'd have to say the Fighter/Druid and Fighter/Mage are the most powerful - the combination of abilities (particularly for a high-level F/M) are truly awesome and don't require the brain-bending combinations of cheese that some other classes espouse.

@Scythesong: Yeah...that song abusing tactic is really good. I had Aerie pummel the red dragon in Watcher's Keep with Staff of the Magi, with 5 images singing... :D :D :D

UAI can be abused as well. So can the traps.

Hmm...I'd say the Blade comes right after the Sorcerer, but the Sorcerer is STILL Numero Uno!! :evil:

A question for fans of sorcerers - how do you deal with golems (especially adamantine)? They are all 100% magic resistant and so strong that will crush any summoned creatures. Do you just continually lower their magic resistance? If yes, than fights with them must take ages! I voted for F/M as he just puts on stoneskin and haste and crushes those things into a pile of scrap metal/dust/whatever.

A question for fans of sorcerers - how do you deal with golems (especially adamantine)? They are all 100% magic resistant and so strong that will crush any summoned creatures.Not Mordekainen's Swords, they won't. I've never seen anything damage one of those things. A few critters in the path of an oncoming monster will hold them off long enough to summon whatever you need in defence and stop them, or to take the long road of lowering their resistances before annihilating them.

Adamantine and Iron Golems are pretty easy to deal with - the only place they won't get stuck in a door is in Suldanessellar, at which point you pepper them with Minute Meteors, Mordy's Swords or the Fire Tooth dagger (+3, returning). Cheap, easy, effective, and they don't get near you.

Clay Golems get tied up with a Skeleton Warrior or two, and meanwhile you either throw volleys of Minute Meteors at them or hit them with the Rod Of Smiting and kill them instantly.

@ Sir Slayer

The only way to kill Mordy swords is with spells, and Adamantine golems don't have any that will harm them. Another summon that usually beats them to death is the Pit Fiend, but I guess you're not very likely to waste a slot on Gate. Planetars will also crush them in seconds.

Killing them with spells is easier than you think. They have huge resistances, but few HP relatively. A Spell Trigger with 3 lower resistance will completely remove their MR, then a single casting of any powerful damaging spell will kill them outright. Or, you can use Skulltrap, which bypasses (for some odd reason) MR. One or two at most will take care of a golem.

Hey, there *is* a reason why people love Sorcerers so much :)

Anyone thinks that the Wild Mage is a powerful class?
After playing through the game with the WM, I still am not sure if the class gives extra spell slots like the Speciality Mages?

@SirSlayer: MR is no sweat for a Sorcerer.

Skulltrap, Dragon's Breath, Sunfire, they all bypass MR. So does Dispel Magic.

Lower Magic Resistance should only be used if you want to use stuff like Greater Malison, Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, Comet, etc.

Also, as far as summons go, Skeletal Warriors hit for +3, Mordenkainen's Swords hit for +4, Planetars, Devas, Pit Fiends, all can chop golems up, that's if you dont want to use Skull Trap, for (unlimited)d6 damage. :)