Are Imoen's theiveing skills good enough to get though TOB. I just mean her lockpicking and detect traps abilities. I am going to use Edwin as my mage because he's got 18 intelegence but I need a thief too. I dont want to use Jan because I want Imoen in my party and 3 mages and 2 theives are two many.

I might be wrong, but I THINK ( - and someone correct me if I'm wrong, please - ) Imoen's thief skills will never increase from what they currently are.

I also think that her skills will be more than enough. I never really used her as a mage, but then again, I never really used her for her thief skills either. I don't really know what I used her for...

But back to the point, her [thief] abilities are probably enough to suffice. Edwin is a better choice as a mage, just because he's Edwin Odeisseron.. just ask him. :grin:

Hope I helped.

[This message has been edited by Xirev (edited June 05, 2002).]

You can increase her (really bad) thieving skills with items that enhance these abilities (Amulet of Master Harper, Ring of Danger Sense, Gloves of PickPocketing etc.) And also before trying to steal something, use a couple Potions of Master Thievery.

And yes there is no problem getting through ToB with her thieving skills (and a little help from the above items).

I open up Shadowkeeper and just convert her to a pure thief. There are much better mages in the game but no good thieves.

NALIA is a good thief. NALIA is a good mage. I never used Imoen or Edwin in TOB, because Nalia copuld do what they could do, and most of it she did better. (well ok maybe Edwin is a better mage, but I disliked his caracter :))

Does this answer your question?

What kind of lazy s.o.b. are you? "Imoen" as the only topic header? That's useless! :flaming:

[Let's remedy that, shall we?] -Tal

[This message has been edited by Taluntain (edited June 05, 2002).]

You're probably right about Nalia being a better mage, but wrong about her being a better thief, at least in the areas that Archer is needing. Check these stats.. I'll only go with Open Locks and Find Traps because that's all you really need throughout the game. You can never really pick-pocket any GOOD items.

Imoen
Open Locks: 70
Find Traps: 75

Nalia
Open Locks: 35
Find Traps: 70

I never used Nalia long enough to find out how her mage skills were, but neither her nor Imoen have any good thieving skills to get up and cheer over. :(

Thank you. So with the items I shouldnt realy have a problem.
And Nalia is NOT a good theif at all. She cant even get through he own home with the skills she has. SleepleSS, I don't see how you think she is a good theif unless you brought her skills up by cheating. And I think Edwin is funny.
And your a little bit hostile there arn't you Earl Grey. But I should have made a better topic header. No reason to get mad though.:rolleyes: sheesh

Well I think shadow keeper must have made a move over her thieving skills then...

I did use it once early in the game so it could be possible....

But if she travels with you for a long time she gets higher skills, and climbs to over 100% at all thieving skills, isn't she? and since I created monster to fight against when I was bored, that could have leveld her up more quickly than what is possible in a real game...

A dual classed thief/mage can't increase their thief skills, so you must've cheated.

Imoen is extremely useful in TOB. The advantage to the dual class Thief/Mage is the ability to use a bow. She makes an excellent archer.

Sleeless, no she does not get additional thieving skills. Those skills are acquired by leveling up as a thief. Since she is dual classed, she cannot level up as a thief anymore.

I just think of Imoen as a really good mage who can wear bladesinger chain and has two additional skills of finding traps and unlocking doors (and if she misses a couple of traps so what?).

Oh yes. And the bow - good with that one with unlimited arrows.

hmmm... I shall start a new game then and check her skills again. Maybe I was just lucky all the time...

But about this dual class thing, why is it that she can become a better mage, but not a better thief? I mean why can't you choose witch class you like to "upgrade".

Speaking aboud cheating: If you use the console to spawn Alora or Safana (From BG1) and then use shadowkeeper on them to make them fighter/thief instead of thief. Than the do level up as a thief but not as a fighter, is this for the same reason as the mage/thief buisness?

Because when you dual-class, you effectively become a new class, but retain your old abilities. So it's not a thief/mage (or whatever), but a mage with thief skills. Only multi-classes (non-humans) increase both their classes.

So that's why it did work for my half elf Fighter-Mage! Now I get it! Wait a sec...

Nalia:
Thief level 5
Open Locks: 95
Detecting traps: 110
Pick pocketing: 35
Move Silently: 20

This is not possible withoud sheeting? (This are her stats at the beginning of TOB after I draged her trough my SOA game...

With items those are possible scores. What are the base ones?

Everything about Imoen sucks! Any NPC theif sucks. Multi-class your PC as a theif, and you'll do just fine. That way, there are less NPCs in your group, and everyone gets more XP. :D :rolling:

But in that case you'll have room for one more buff npc, and when you take him/her, the party will actually receive less xp...

Imoen huh, Whats the deal with everyone wanting to play 'good'. If you ask me its really strange, there are always probs or restrictions you must have when playing good, but none when playing EVIL, or even neutral. Edwin is by far the best mage, I mean +3spells per lvl is just practicly rigged, Plus youll notice having an evil party (or neutral) is much more fun, and funny (Love edwin and korgan!)

But if you play evil, don't you have to pay more at stores, constantly pestered by authorities, and worry about good party members (Keldorn, Minsc) leaving? I just don't see the advantages of playing an evil PC. :rolling:

No. How much you have to pay at stores depends solely on your reputation. Authorities pestering you is also dependant of your reputation. The advantage of being evil is that you can do anything you want, and get away with it. Try that with a Paladin or Ranger, and you become fallen. The 'advantage' of an evil character is, if you roleplay him correctly, you'll get some nice evil dialogs :)

Just because you are evil does not mean you have to have a bad reputation. On the contrary, I'd imagine evil parties would be more prone to high reputation as to cover thier real intentions.

I always played neutral! so I could keep Both Nalia and Viconia happy! Neutral rules! You are a son of god, so remember BALANCE in ALL things!

Yoshimo is a very good theif but of course that will change later.

Item costs are dependant on 2 things in fact.
Reputation and charisma. Ragusa did some research a long time ago as to effects of charisma on item cost. I believe the lowest item cost was at charisma 24 or so, but he might correct me on that...

As Alex above said, evil could be role-played in several ways:
- Lawful Evil characters would typically have a high-ish reputation as they would not want to fall out of order with the Law. That's why they're lawful see?
- Neutral Evil characters could go either way. They act purely on their own best interest and therefore would be willing to do anything to gain the best things for them. This would include doing 'good' things as long as they get a reward that benefits them.
- Chaotic Evil characters will just do things in spite of 'good' characters. They will murder countless hundreds just to show they are the best.

Now back to Topic:
I believe with the right items, such as Ring Of Lockpicking or Trap Detection, Mercykiller Ring or similar items; Imoen would be as good as any thief would.
Remember though! That thieving skills which go up to 100, are considered 'full', which means you will get a 99% chance of success and 1% of faliure when using abilities. This is before other bonuses are applied.
Say a trap which is Difficult to detect (say about 75% on Detect Traps), it then is magical, and so magically hidden, removing about 40% from abilities. So with this trap, you would need 105% on abilities.
Understand?
So with Items, her abilities should go to just over 100% on most abilities (open locks and traps at least), so No Problem in Tob.

I prefer Yoshimo or me(mage/thief).

[spoiler]

No Yoshimo in ToB.

As for the original question, get Jan.