As the poll states, your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to choose the ultimate powergaming character. As I know I'm opening myself up to a bunch of non-sensical creations here, I'm setting up some ground rules, specifically, the rules of character creation allowed by SoA/ToB, without any additional mods. Therefore:

1. Races - You may select any of the races you can choose as a PC. No Half-dragons, liches, vampires, etc. Additionally, you must choose a class based on your race per BG2 rules. You cannot have a half-orc paladin, a multi-classed human, a dual-classed non-human, etc.

2. Class - You may only choose from classes or class combinations present in BG2. You can't have a Paladin/Sorcerer, an Anti-Paladin/Assassin, a ninja, or anything else you may be able to conjur up in your mind that isn't present in BG2.

3. Attributes - You may have any attributes you wish within racial limitations. Thus, if you're going to play a human, you can have an 18/00 strength, and 18's in everything else, but you can't use shadow keeper to raise all your attributes to 25.

4. Experience - You may assume that you will take this character up to the limit of 8 million XP total. Therefore, something you would never actually do (like take a kensai to 3 million XP and then dual him to a mage) is allowed. A multi-class consisting of 2 classes could have 4 million XP in each class, and a multi-class consisting of 3 classes can have 2.66 million XP in each class.

5. If you want to chose a dual-class or multi-class combination I haven't listed, you may - just check the other box. I can't possibly list every multi or dual-classed combination without making a poll with dozens of options, especially given the fact that you can choose a kit with your first class in the case of dual classing. I have listed the most common multi-class and dual-class combinations.

6. Alignment - you may choose from the 9 allowed alignments present in BG2, and you must keep within the alignments allowed by your class. No Lawful good thieves, no non-Lawful good paladins, no non-True Neutral druids, etc.

7. As always, if you wish to give your opinion on WHY this character is the ultimate powergaming choice, feel free.

8. Yes, I do realize this is going to start yet another discussion as to whether dual-classing or multi-classing is better.

Now, onto the poll...

Poll Information
This poll contains 7 question(s). 69 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Poll Results: The Ultimate Powergaming Poll (69 votes.)

I would choose a : (Choose 1)
* Single-Classed Character - 39% (27)
* Dual-Classed Character - 22% (15)
* Multi-Classed Character - 39% (27)

My single class character's race would be: (Choose 1)
* Human - 38% (26)
* Elf - 13% (9)
* Half-Elf - 4% (3)
* Halfling - 1% (1)
* Half-Orc - 12% (8)
* Gnome - 1% (1)
* Dwarf - 0% (0)
* N/A (I would not choose a single-classed character) - 30% (21)

My single class would be: (Choose 1)
* Fighter or Fighter Kit - 13% (9)
* Ranger or Ranger Kit - 3% (2)
* Paladin or Paladin Kit - 9% (6)
* Barbarian - 4% (3)
* Monk - 4% (3)
* Cleric or Cleric Kit - 0% (0)
* Druid or Druid Kit - 3% (2)
* Mage or Specialist - 3% (2)
* Sorcerer - 16% (11)
* Thief or Thief Kit - 7% (5)
* N/A (I would not choose a single classed character) - 38% (26)

My human dual-classed character would be the following combination: (Choose 1)
* Beserker/Cleric - 7% (5)
* Beserker/Druid - 1% (1)
* Kensai/Mage - 16% (11)
* Beserker/Thief - 0% (0)
* Kensai/Thief - 12% (8)
* Swashbuckler/Mage - 3% (2)
* Assassin/Mage - 3% (2)
* Cleric or Cleric Kit/Mage - 0% (0)
* Other (Specify) - 0% (0)
* N/A (I would not choose a dual-classed character) - 58% (40)

My multi-classed chacter's race would be: (Choose 1)
* Elf - 25% (17)
* Half-Elf - 23% (16)
* Halfling - 1% (1)
* Half-Orc - 4% (3)
* Gnome - 1% (1)
* Dwarf - 1% (1)
* N/A (I would not choose a multi-classed character) - 43% (30)

My multi-class combination would be: (Choose 1)
* Ranger/Cleric - 14% (10)
* Fighter/Druid - 1% (1)
* Figher/Mage - 14% (10)
* Fighter/Thief - 9% (6)
* Cleric/Mage - 1% (1)
* Cleric/Thief - 0% (0)
* Mage/Thief - 1% (1)
* Fighter/Mage/Thief - 14% (10)
* FIghter/Mage/Cleric - 4% (3)
* Other (specify) - 0% (0)
* N/A (I would not choose a multi-classed character) - 39% (27)

My alignment would be: (Choose 1)
* Lawful Good - 26% (18)
* Lawful Neutral - 9% (6)
* Lawful Evil - 0% (0)
* Neutral Good - 10% (7)
* True Neutral - 6% (4)
* Neutral Evil - 1% (1)
* Chaotic Good - 20% (14)
* Chaotic Neutral - 20% (14)
* Chaotic Evil - 7% (5)

The Kensai/Mage seems to be popular :whoa:
Is the Human race really to favor, when there are so many other good things with other races :hmm:

And the first question that I ask myself before starting: Sword or Spell, Magic or Melee?
Charge towards a wall of opponents holding a melee weapon, or raining havoc upon them with spells... :rolleyes:

Shure, there are the mixes, but what's the fun with that :evil: :D

Single classed Human Neutral Good Sorceror. Hell yeah, those guys really rip the p!ss.

Multiclass elf. F/M/T, Chaotic Neutral. With full scores in each attribute this one could get the most potential. Could handle any situation and with CN as alignment he could take on any number of quests from either side without being "ooc", as if that mattered in powergaming.

But I have to admit, I can't say how hard it would be with the expcap limiter on. I hate such limitations (even if I go under the limit more often than over it), as many should know who played KoTOR. Could be F/M/T would be too low level to make a decent powergamingcharacter compared to a dualclassed Kensai/Mage.

@VS - perhaps it's not so much as humans are favored but that dual-classes are favored over multi-classes. If you're dualled-classed, you have to be a human.

@ Fordasthar - I only put an XP limit on it to prevent people from making ludicrous suggestions like:

"I would make a F/M/T with a billion XP in every class. He's a level 1,236 fighter, a level 1,974 thief, and a level 924 mage. I just glance at demogrorgan, and he dies. I just take a p**s on Mellisan, and she's history. The very gods tremble in my wake, and I am unstoppable."

The reason for selecting 8 million XP was that is the original limit set by ToB, and since all the other rules were based on those limits, it seemed like a logical enough choice.

How about a lvl 21 assassin dualed to fighter? I know people have done this. Needs patience, but I imagine the rewards are REALLY worth the wait!

Single classed solo monk. rips everything.

I have always wanted to duel a druid and a berserker. Go all rage of nature on my enemies. Take out wizards and clerics like they were nothing.

Oh yeah, since I am a druid, I am True Neutral.

Out of curiousity, no one is picking the Paladin, and yet many people are selecting Lawful good as their alignment. If you are powergaming, and you aren't playing a paladin, why would you choose lawful good?

High starting rep I guess, though I always go for Chaotic Neutral if possible since I like living for the day style when I'm roleplaying, and for powergaming ...wel you can do anything you like, no good/bad restrictions.

Pure fighter with as many * in warhammer and flails as I can get. That way Crom Faeyr +5 (so STR of 25) and Flail of Ages +5.

The berserk would reach about 4,000,000 XP which I believe is where he levels to like 24. He would have his Spell Immunity/WhirlWind/IWW/Hardness all X2 I believe. Cleric would then have 4,000,000 which would make my character level 25. Cleric would take flaming aura/the better blade barrier/deva/implosion/etc.

Now why would this be the ultimate power gaming class? Because the fighter can hit anything. Mages with prot from norm weapons or magical he can bypass by carrying a normal sword or a +6 (since there's also absolute immunity). He has then, the ability to take out any mage in a physical battle, and with spell resistance, 50% +what he has+what the Cleric can give him, (which I think is more than another 50%), makes him basically immune to spells. Against other classes that are high level fighters or fighter/clerics, he can go berserk use spells like righteous might, etc.etc. to just make himself have a thac0 of let's say.... -10000000? :p and a damage potential of which an assasin with X7 backstabb + staff of the ram would do!! without the need of going invisible to attack! without the use of many magical items, this class can take out anything in the game with 0 effort if 8 million XP were alotted :p

ugh. very few real powergamers here :cool:

Half-orc, Chaotic-Evil Fighter/Thief does the job for me. Huge damage with backstab (blackrazor), fills the roll needed for an evil party (no thief) and can handle himself well in a fight. With white dragon chain possesses a nice AC and can still sneak. Single weapon style, long swords, two handed weapon style and quarterstaff. Give 'em ring of gaxx to keep him invisible a few times during the round and be pretty hard to hit.

Neutral Evil Human Thief (Assassin)
The first neutral evil and the first thief in this poll ;)
A combination of trap and backstab could kill anything. (concentrate on Hide in Shadow, Move Silently and Set Trap)

human assassin dualed at level 25 to a fighter. This character will reach 26 in fighter, just high enough to get his thieving skills back. The reason the assassin goes to 25 is to have assassinate + x7 backstab. By the end, this character will have a great thaco, and the capability to do absurd 4.5 attacks per round with the right equipment and normal grandmastery (non-modded). 4.5 x x7 means without any spells or buffs, this character can make equivlent of 31.5 attacks per round!!!!

It was a close call for me, as I've solo'ed a few different characters and found the easiest to be F/M/T, R/C and Sorceror. Given the cap on experience, I dropped the F/M/T from the running. It was a hard decision, but I opted for the sorcerer, as his arcane spells lent a slight edge to the "speed of enemy annihilation" factor and the wish spell allows for zero rest later in the game to replenish the spellbook. If we can use Tutu, I can start him at all 18's, get to SOA at all 19's with a 21 in wisdom, finish SOA with, I think, 22 in strength (maximizing the Sarevok encounter), 19 intelligence, 21 wisdom, 19 dex (kill the peasant for the tear, what do I care?), 18 con (that's what I'd sacrifice in the dream sequence) and 19 cha. Not bad. After Lum's machine in TOB, it would be 23, 20, 22, 20, 19, 20.

Guarantees a good result on all wishes. Add a familiar that can pickpocket (I think) and fun can be had. He'd wield, obviously, the staff of the magi and, I suppose, the Staff of the Ram occasionally. He also have that +5 sling from the bonus merchant (I forget the name). He'd use the Robe of Vecna, Amulet of Power, bracers AC3, Circlet of Netheril, Belt of Inertial Barrier, boots of avoidance, Cloak of Cheese, Ring of Gaxx and, if the Item Upgrade is allowed the Sorcerian Ring (otherwise, maybe a ring of wizardry or the like).

Just not stoppable in this game.

Obviously, a Chaotic Neutral Half-Elf Blade. I think bonuses of around +100 to THAC0, AC, MR and damage, and immunity to stun, sleep and confusion to any friendly units that comes within range speaks for itself. What, no cheese? Spike Traps, Time Traps, UAI, Buff Spells and all the natural Blade abilities will just have to do, then - invincibility + a fighting prowess only Kensai-kin can match.
And while most other characters will have to wait a while for their true prowess to show up, a well played Blade becomes overpowered right after escaping Irenicus' Dungeon.

There's also the ridiculously high lore, which allows him to actually roleplay foresight (PvP and he's more than likely to predict the very next thing any opponent of his is going to do next, thereby allowing a well-placed counter), so from the beginning anything that crosses the Blade already suffers a serious disadvantage. Knowledge can be a very overpowered weapon and the Blade is well able to wield it in battle.

As for abilities, the Half-Elf Blade ranks next to the R/C for chance of getting high stats, so 18 everything except strength and con and the belts will do the rest.

The Blade is the ultimate powergamer's class. And considering the difficulty in playing one, he's very well worth it.
Sadly, there's no Blade in the poll though.

[ March 05, 2004, 10:19: Message edited by: Scythesong Immortal ]

Scythe I could swear that you copied this message from what? the other 1000+ messages you posted on it?

:lol: it's ok I'm joking :) I agree that he's great but a lot of the time unless I solo I'm usually too impaitent too max him out unless fighting the Ascension final battle.

But Blades are not the only class that can be maxed out to go far beyond his usual abilities even that Paladin can do that with some spells.

I picked (suprise) F/M. I don't know why F/M/T is so popular I prefer the Blade myself over FMT, for one the FMT does NOT get high enough as a mage to use the HLA's of a mage so they are stuck as a kick arse fighter with a bit of theivery, traps and backstab but would be the equivilent of a mage vs a well thought out sorcerer when it comes to magic, which would go a lot further then the ability to pick locks and set traps(Improved alacricity + Timestop + GWW + CS + Dragons Breaths anyone?).

I picked Chaotic good cause I'm a nice guy and don't have to swear oaths or commit myself to an order or organization if I don't want to and if I do and don't agree with it later on, I'd be able to just walk away. Oh well I guess I just don't like commitment :)

[ March 05, 2004, 13:29: Message edited by: casey ]

@SI

My deepest apologies. I completely forgot about the bard class altogether. Bards never did much for me personally, and that's probably why I forgot about them. I've only gone throught the game once with them, and while the experience was enjoyable, it really didn't do too much for me overall. Obviously, as that is your favorite class, you have refined your playing style of a bard far more than I have, so your experience is far different than mine.

@casey
Actually, I did copy/paste it from somewhere. :D
F/M? Multi, or dual?

@Aldeth
No problem here. I'm really more interested in whether who among the other classes would win the poll, though. I had thought it would the Ranger Cleric or Sorcerer, but things just got more interesting.

Well you could probably do best with a Kensai dualed to a Mage for spell power, but a M/C keeps getting better in each skill and gets fighter HLA's so I'm not sure which one I should take, it's a tough decision.

EDIT: I forgot that M/C Kensai mages are impossible without using SK to do it, sorry if I confused anyone.

[ March 07, 2004, 09:58: Message edited by: casey ]

Lawful Good (for the starting Rep) Kensai(13)/Mage(x).

Dual Weilding Hammers and Katanas.

Dual Weilding Hammers and Katanas. Doesn't that seem a little, well, silly? It doesn't bring to mind a very convincing picture. I've done a lot of medieval fighting, and a war hammer is a down right clumsy weapon to wield. You have a hard enough time defending with your shield while wielding one of those. If you were going to dual wield a hammer, it would have to be with another similarly-balanced item, like another hammer, or an axe. Possibly a mace. (Not a flail though - given the dexterity needed to use a flail properly, it would be impossible to wield anything else while using a flail - except a shield of course.)

Perhaps, but there was nothing about that in the poll :)

No idea, since I haven't played the game enough.

Seeing as the Hammer gives you God-like strength, you would most likely have no problem wielding the two in combination. :)

Bseides, we're powergaming. I don't do it often so I do not get in that mindset. That having been said, you're right. If the idea is to powergame, putting a high damage weapon in your main hand, and a strength enhancing item in your off hand would maximize damage, which is the point in powergaming...

my favourite is a human lawful good sorcerer with that robe (cant remember what the name is)that decreased spell casting by 4, with that you can pump out spells like there is no tomorrow and all your enemies are toast

The Robe of Vecna decreases casting time but it's not *that* amazing. A mage wearing it is still only able to cast a limited number of spells. The best thing about the R of V is that you can get a spell off so quickly at the start of a fight that several enemies are dead before the rest have even begun to fight back.

@David - exactly. Where the Robe of Vecna's advantage comes in is when it is combined with alacrity or improved alacrity. Still, you say it's not THAT good, but it is probably the best protection in the game for a straight mage. Obviously elvin chain is better for fighter thieves, but people like Edwin or any other straight mage/sorcerer can't use it, so I would contend it is a very good item.

If you really want to find a realistic ranking of the ultimate powergaming character you need to ask the most experienced players.

Remember that a poll on a subject like this will only show how ignorant most players are. Anyone can and will vote in a poll.

ouch dude.

I picked a Mage/thief because, as a solo character, the thief level will be high enough for good backstabs. I also want Spell Immunity: Divination and as many invisibilty spells as possible for those extended backstabbing sprees.

The Thief skills, especially Traps, are invaluable, not to mention some of the funnest abilities in the game.

The Robe of Vecna + Amulet of Power will make any spell up to casting speed of 5 or 6 (which is most spells) instantaneous or nearly so.

[ March 13, 2004, 19:09: Message edited by: Mystra's Chosen ]

You're right Earl Gray. The only problem is I probably would get some type of sanction slapped on me if posted a poll that said something to the effect of:

If you're a newbie or simply an idiot, please don't vote. And said newbies and idiots would probably vote anyway, because well, they're newbies and idiots...

I would have to pick a blade, especially with the XP cap, and especially in ToB. Reason? Read any of Scythesong's posts. I have always enjoyed playing a blade, and know full well how over-powered they get. Second place would go to a mage/thief.

Definitely have to agree with Tassadar on the Blade pick.
Also, CN takes care of any morality qualms that may be present.
They can fight with better weapons than a mage and can cast cast mage spells with no dual/multi class penalty.
Can't wear armour without spell disabling excepting Melodic Chain Mail and few others but hey, that's what gauntlets are for.
Also the 'Offensive Spin' move completely kicks in a melee situation and it's too bad it doesn't last longer. :p