Spoiler alert

1. What would happen if the characters name really was Veldrin, and you chose the wrong dialog option on entering Ust Natha?

2. In the cinematic dream sequences in Chapter 2, its really your own Bhaal tainted soul wanting you to use your full power (Irenicus' image is just a messenger - took me ages to realize this).

3. If Bodhi steals Imoens soul, why isnt she much more powerful when you face her again?

4. If Irenicus steals your soul, why dont you lose any power except for your Bhaalspawn abilities?

5. After hearing what the talking statues have to say in the beginning of ToB, how could anyone not at least suspect that Melissan is a traitor?

My take:

1. You'd probably end up with the same result. Yeah, rather silly, but then, what are the odds of naming charname like that if not on purpose?

2. That's right. And the Imoen you see isn't the real one but a representation of your good side or whatever. I remember a dialogue in the unmodded game where she says she never met you in any dreams.

3. Well... I think she *is*, in theory, specially considering how high is the XP reward for killing her. The Chapter 6 battle is way harder than the one on Chapter 3, anyway.

4. You don't lose any powers granted by your profession or experience, but you lose control over yourself (the Slayer tries to take over) and probably any chance at an afterlife. But then again, "you are the chosen one" (see 5).

5. I (the player) was not fooled by Melissan. At all. That and the whole "you are the chosen one the prophecy was talking about all along just like Neo and Anakin Skywalker so you see, it is your destiny" are the only things I don't like about the ToB storyline. It seemed kinda rushed and not up there with SoA. Irenicus is a kick ass, 3-dimensional villain, who's actually smarter than your character (most of the time, at least). Can't say the same about Melissan.

Irenicus is the best, I agree.

Another point - if Irenicus is a level 30 mage capable of doing whatever he wants, and he sees you standing outside his ruined dungeon, why not simply cast Timestop -> Greater malison -> Hold person then he picks you up himself and hauls you away. All while time is stopped. Why would he need to let you go just because the cowled wizards arrive? I suppose there may have been too many for even he to deal with.

Because he didn't memorize the Hold Person spell? :p

because he's got skinny girly arms? :p

Because...End of Story. "You loose."

The wizards distracted him and he is also probably so arrogant that he figured you were no longer a menace to him.

You were never a menace to him, he just wanted your soul. nothing personal.

Actually, I think that he figured that he'll just blast the wizards to pieces and deal with the nonexistant threat the PC posed after that. Too bad he didn't realize that there were more than few wizards. And so, as a fallback plan, he simply allowed them to take him in, but only if they took Imoen as well. And since the Cowled Wizards wanted to end it quickly, taking one unsanctioned spellcaster more wasn't a problem.

I agree with Goli. Irenicus had built up patience for hundreds of years; a foolproof plan to bring you into his clutches seems rather painless from his perspective, no matter how long the plan would take to come into effect. Besides, if he had chosen to grab charname and flee, he'd have Cowled Wizards up his ass for who knows how long. To me, Irenicus's plan makes much more sense when you consider it from his perspective.

5. The better question is why the f*** you can't DO anything about it!?! :flaming:
The whole friggin' game seems predicated on you playing the part of the patsy. :rolleyes:

A brilliant fallback plan.

If the storyline is really solid, Irenicus probably had it planned since the Shadow Thieves began attacking. If he lived under Athkatla and had the contacts and influence to pinpoint Charname's location and promote a capture, he probably also knew a lot about the Cowled Wizards.

By the end of the prologue, his secret lair was under attack and it's location was just revealed to the Cowled Wizards. Going back was not an option. He probably knew about the existence of and maybe even some details about Spellhold (he knows what Bodhi knows, and she offers to get you there). Manipulating them into capturing Imoen wasn't really hard and Charname would predictably spring into her rescue.

So all the better if Bodhi offers to help charname.

4. It's the other way round. He stole the Bhaal fragment of your soul, meaning you ONLY lose your Bhaalspawn powers. Which is exactly what happens in the game.

5. Prophecy-type dialogs tend not stick in my memory (I know, I shouldn't be playing epic RPGs in this case :shake: ) but about 3 minutes into the first dialog with Melissan I had suspicions she was evil. The fact you could not be rude to her (whereas you could be rude to just about every other NPC in both games) was all the proof I needed. And, like Fel, I was very annoyed there was nothing you could do about it - especially even though Balthazar ALSO knows what she's up to, you're forced to kill him. Grr. At least Ascension fixed that last bit.

I thought of another thing:

In the cutscene where Jon Irenicus is shown talking with the Matron Mother, and he considers questioning those elves? He says, "My revenge will soon come."

But then he kills the elves that were about to reveal that he is an elf. That seems to imply that the drow do not know he is an elf, but if not, why would he want revenge on the elves?

But then he kills the elves that were about to reveal that he is an elf. That seems to imply that the drow do not know he is an elf, but if not, why would he want revenge on the elves? Elves don't just slight their own, you know. There could be any number of reasons why a human might hate the elves. And I doubt the drow care much *why* he's helping them destroy their enemy. Well, maybe so far as it might help them manipulate him to get more out of him or even destroy him if he becomes a threat, but otherwise...these are drow we're talking about here.

True, it seems drow dont need many reasons for going to war against the elves.

Would you say Irenicus feared the drow in that case, or did just not want to lose the chance of using them for his purposes?

i dont think its wise to anger Matron Mother, hence he reversed his decision.

plusthe longer he hangs around the longer he can use them

Quick comment about #5 in the original post...

Melissan was so annoyingly obvious as a traitor manipulator it made me sick. I didn't enjoy the storyline of ToB for primarily that reason. I enjoyed the encounters and new treasures, but the evil villain in the midst was nauseating. When I play through ToB on occaision these days, I always pick the rudest comments available for pretty Melissan. Pretty Melissan lies, pretty Melissan deceives... just not very well.

About the thing about Irenicus killing the elves, one take is that he, at first, was ready to hear them out, just for fun if nothing else. But when they screamed his real name, he was immidiately enraged, his hate for his past surfacing quickly. And thus, in a little fit of anger, he blasted them to dust.

But he acted weirdly afterwards. like he was hiding something from the drow.

if they angered him so much, and the drow knew he was elven, he would have just said so. the drow respect anger, violence and power.