Here are the questions
1. If a swashbuckler has 1 slot in dagger and dual class to a mage(when dual classing, 1 slot for dagger was given to the mage). Then after the mage level reach over the swashbuckler, how many slots will he have for dagger?
2.what is the max number of normal attack(with no special skills activated)? If it is 5, than will it be the same for a fighter using a single weapon and a fighter dual-wielding 2 weapons?
3.If a fallen paladin level up like a fighter, than can he level up till he have 5 slots in two-handed sword then do something to get back his paladin status and still have 5 slots in two-handed sword?

Sorry, got to add here as many people only notice the first post.
My thanks to all SP members who answered my queation But...
1. After I regain my thief abilities, then they will let me place another slot in dagger upon earning my next proficiency point. So this a new proficiency point, not the previous one for me to choose the dagger again right? That mean I have to so-call waste a third proficiency point to gaive my dagger skill 2 slots right?
2. I am some what confused... What if my question is based on a fighter with no spell enhancement, dual-wielding 2 non-magical long sword and have the hight skill for long sword, how many attacks will he have per round, compare to a same skilled fighter(with no spell enhancement) who is armed with a non-magical long sword and a non-magical shield?
3. question solved. Thanks again!
4. New question! Is TDD good to play after it's patches have been installed or will there still be many bugs?

[ July 13, 2003, 05:36: Message edited by: Skywind ]

1. I think he'll have 2, not sure though.
2. No, dual wielding will add one attack.
3. First, they still level up as Pallys, they just don't get pally skills, secondly you can't get pally status back and I don't even think you can get GM. Don't fall.

1. Does anyone know my first question answer?
To Arian:
2. you mean dual-wielders will have a max of 6 attacks only?
3.I remember reading somewhere that a certain quest allow a fallen-paladin to get back his status, just like ranger if the fallen-ranger complete his/her strong-hold quest. If I'm wrong then maybe I mistaken it with something else. But it is sad or I can have a paladin with 5 slots in two-handed sword and wield the Holy Avenger! :(

The paladin still levels up like a paladin. They don't become a fighter just lost the lay on hands, immunities, etc...

If you finish the paladin stronghold quests you will get your statis back..

There is another way too... I just can't remember. I know there were two series of quests that got it... maybe the slavers? hmm can't remmeber :bang:

Hmmm, didn't know that about fallen pallies or rangers. About max attacks of 6 with duals, I think thats true without magic enchantments, I usually go 2-handed though, so I'm not sure.

if you want to have grandmastery with your pally you should play a mod, look into the mod section here. i suggest TDD, there is a nice new pally kit called Lord.

About question 1: it will have one slot. They do not add up.

Thanks all of you buddies!! But I don't want to play mods as they have lots of buds for example TDD.Will TDD's patch actually remove most or all the buds or only a little? And it is really fun to play? When I read in another wedsite about TDD, I found that it has many classes, most which seems kind of extra to me.

The more the merrier. There I no way you can possibly say no to more choices, granted you probably won't get the chance to play most of the classes and may not notice the difference when you do, but at least the choice is there.

Hmmm....So from what I heard, TDD is more difficult to play. But I really want to know,is it is better than or worse thanor as nice as TOB?

@ Skywind.

Let me get back to your original questions.

1. The way you described, you won't get two proficiencies in dagger. However, if you wait until after you regain your thief abilities, then they will let you place another slot in dagger upon earning your next proficiency point.

The maximum attack you can get with a swashbuckler with 2 proficiency points in a given weapon is 5/2 or five attacks every two rounds. If you are dual wielding it will give you one extra attack per round.

2. If you have the grandmastery fix patch installed, which returns grandmastery to what it should be, then a fighter with grandmastery could get 3 attacks per round, or 4 attacks per round if dual wielding.

There is no way (without using haste or other improvement) to get more than 4 attacks per round with any character who uses melee weapons. With bows (Mazzy springs to mind) gets 5 attacks IIRC per round with the fixpack to grandmastery and the tuigan bow.

3. Rangers and paladins can be returned from fallen status only if you complete their final stronghold quest. If you fall after you have completed their stronghold, you're SOL.

Slight correction to Aldeth's post:
There is no way (without using haste or other improvement) to get more than 4 attacks per round with any character who uses melee weapons If you dual-wield with Kundane or Belm in your off-hand, that gives 9/2 attacks. I've also heard that the extra attack given by belm/kundane in this situation actually goes to your main hand rather than your off-hand; not sure if this is true, though.

@Splunge - But if you dual-wield both of them at the same time, would you get 5/1 attacks then?

@Velve Zauviir - Hmm, good point, but then wouldn't it be 11/2?
Base (2/2) + lvl 7 (1/2) + lvl 13 (1/2) + specialization (1/2) + off-hand (2/2) plus extra attack main (2/2) + extra attack off-hand(2/2).

About Belm/Kundane, if you put them in the offhand they add one to main hand attack.

Damn - I forgot about Belm. Splunge is right. I have never tried to do Belm and Kundane together, so I don't know if the effects are cumulative. I do know that the bonus goes to your main hand - your off hand weapon only attacks once per round no matter what.

OK, here's the apparent deal with belm/kundane. I tested it with my level 13 kesai, 2* in katanas, scimitar's, and s.sword (used the console to get points for the s.sword). With celestial fury main hand and either belm or kundane in off-hand, the record screen shows 9/2. With belm and kundane in each each hand, the screen shows 5 attacks, so you only appear to gain 1/2 attack. Oddly, with no points in s.sword, and with kundane off-hand, c.fury main, the screen shows only 4 attacks, so there appears to be a penalty to # of attacks in this case; this penalty disappears with 1 point in s.sword.

Of course, all this is kind of academic IMO, since it does't make a lot of sense to dual wield both belm + kundane; aside from the extra attacks, there's nothing special about these swords.

My thanks to all SP members who answered my queation But...
1. After I regain my thief abilities, then they will let me place another slot in dagger upon earning my next proficiency point. So this a new proficiency point, not the previous one for me to choose the dagger again right? That mean I have to so-call waste a third proficiency point to gaive my dagger skill 2 slots right?
2. I am some what confused... What if my question is based on a fighter with no spell enhancement, dual-wielding 2 non-magical long sword and have the hight skill for long sword, how many attacks will he have per round, compare to a same skilled fighter(with no spell enhancement) who is armed with a non-magical long sword and a non-magical shield?
3. question solved. Thanks again!
4. New question! Is TDD good to play after it's patches have been installed or will there still be many bugs?