I know that in Watche'r's keep, you are unable to acquire the thieves hood. But what if you're neutral? (I'm planning on playing a neutral fighter thief all the way from BG1, and it would be kind of a bummer if the demon told me I'm too much of a good guy for that nifty little item...

Or is this reputation dependant?

[ November 21, 2005, 23:11: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

It depends on alignment: LG, NG, CG, & LN won't get the offer from the first group (Tanar'ri). But the second group (Baatezu) is less picky, and you can give them the heart from the first group for the Thieves' Hood so long as you're not LG or NG. Since it's on the way out (no backtracking), that's what I usually do; just kill the first group and give the heart to the second group.

I seem to remember there's a bug with the baatezu, that if you accept their mission to kill the tan'arri they attack you straight away anyway.

I seem to remember there's a bug with the baatezu, that if you accept their mission to kill the tan'arri they attack you straight away anyway. Um, no. They'll attack you if you refuse, or if you're LG or NG, but they won't attack you if you agree to help them.

It has happened to me. First they give me the mission, I accept it, but as soon as the conversation ends, Karashur iniates dialogue again. He says "Betrayal comes as no surprise from demons made of lies", and attacks.

Had you attacked any Baatezu prior to your meeting? 'Cause that'd do it.

EDIT:
As I recall, there's a balor being attacked by three cornugons in a previous room. The balor makes fairly short work of the cornugons, but if he attacks you and you kill him, the other baatezu might not look kindly on it. You have to just rush through the room quickly. (Don't forget to get the Purifier though.)

[ November 22, 2005, 01:26: Message edited by: Felinoid ]

Usually I whack the cornugons in the room where you can get the Purifier, sometimes the Balor too. Could that be the reason?

It seems strange to me that Karashur doesn't attack straight away, but first gives me the mission. And the line he says when he attacks sounds more appropriate for a situation where I would have completed the mission and then instead of giving a reward he would betray me and attack.

I've never had a similar problem with the tan'arri, even though I've killed the Balor the two cornugons are fighting.

Edit: I have *never* been able to succesfully deal with the baatezu no matter who I've killed prior to the meeting. And when my alignment has been appropriate, I've always been able to deal with the tan'arri.

Edit 2: I can't really remember a game where I hadn't killed *any* demons before entering Karashur's room. That I haven't tried. I've killed all of them, I've killed just the Balor, I've killed just the cornugons (sometimes they win the balor). Besides, since cornugons are Baatezu, why should they mind if I kill the Balor? The Tan'arri don't seem to care at all about who I kill.

[ November 22, 2005, 01:39: Message edited by: Susipaisti ]

It's not that hard. Just have the heart from the Tanar'ri and give it to Karashur when you meet him. I've done it several times and it always works. I get the Thieves' Hood, position my people, and then attack them anyway.

EDIT: :doh: Bah, I always forget who's what. Okay, so the cornugons are baatezu and the balor is a tannar'ri. :hmm: And I have killed everything and still gotten the Hood. If you're still having trouble, just use this:
CLUAConsole:SetGlobal("BatAttacked","GLOBAL",0)

[ November 22, 2005, 01:51: Message edited by: Felinoid ]

I'm not sure whether I've ever tried killing Tahazzar before even meeting the Baatezu. How I've tried it is I've gone to meet the Baatezu before meeting the Tan'arri group at all, and they've given me the mission and then attacked me.

I might try that other approach once I dust my current game that's been lying around for some time. I'll also see if my actions in the room of the Purifier have an effect on the Baatezu conversation.

Edit: damn, I always take so long writing that I don't see the edits in time.

Edit 2: And thanks for the tips.

I'm not sure whether I've ever tried killing Tahazzar before even meeting the Baatezu. How I've tried it is I've gone to meet the Baatezu before meeting the Tan'arri group at all, and they've given me the mission and then attacked me. Yeah, I remember encountering that same problem all the times i've gone through watcher's keep (at least twice) so Susipaisti isn't alone in his probs there

i never had any problems what so ever

I think I got it but I don't know how - both groups attacked me so I suppose I must have killed them anyway.

@Shaman:
They don't have it on them, so you can't get it unless you deliver a heart. I think it was so you would only get one of them.

One group has an issue with you being good and change it's mind to attack you because it feels it can't trust you. The trick is to either kill the other group first which is like netting you the quest anyway. Or to kill the group that changes it's mind because your too Goodie Goodie.

Then the Dialogue should automatically kick in for the other one if you have the heart in your inventory.

I think it's Karashuur's group that has the issue with you being too Goodie Goodie.
MAKE SURE YOU GRAB THE HEART!

If you don't you could end up taking out the other group and not getting the hood. Though I have been wondering and keep forgetting to try it by taking one of the extra demon hearts from the Planar Sphere quest and seeing if it might net me the hood.

Note:The battle between the Balor and the Cornugons is about a 50/50 chance either way. I've watched it enough times because it took me a bit to figure out how to get the Purifier sword.