I am interested in playing a druid through BG2 and into TOB. I never played a druid in TOB because of the ridiculous level limit.

Are the high level abilities you gain as a druid in TOB worth going out and purchasing the game?

What are some of the high level abilities?

summoning elemental princes ;)

They can also shapeshift into elementals and gain immunity to poison and 10% resistance to elemental damage(ie. fire, ice) every so and so level(forgot)

Imo druids are better than clerics in ToB.

[This message has been edited by Tyresian (edited July 05, 2001).]

I would say that thier effectivness(sp) has been greatly improved from BGII. New summoning spells and transformations also help out greatly(not to mention the resistances).

Clerics are still *WAY* better than druids. Clerics can wear good armor, get the holy symbol (although I was kind of disappointed that Viconia got one for Talos instead of from Shar), and a Deva can whup an elemental prince. I think that the only time you can make an argument for druids is at the beginning of SoA, when you insect swarm is useful for messing up enemy spellcasters. If you're still not convinced, try putting Anomen toe to toe with Jaheira. Even with Jaheira's fighter levels, Anomen kicks her ass. As for Cernd, Imoen can take him one on one. Jaheira actually does power up decently in ToB, but it's really only her fighter levels, seeing how she didn't gain a single druid level in the course of my game. At the end of SoA, Viconia (flail of ages) easily beats Jaheira (belm), but in ToB, Jaheira consistently wins.

Clerics are still way better than druids??

Let's see, first about the devas, druids can also summon devas, and they can summon a deva in addition to the elemental prince. Elemental princes deal more damage, can take more damage, have lower thac0s, lower AC so how is the deva better? Sure the have an instant death ability if the person fails a save but everyone has such insanely low saves it doesn't matter anymore.

Better armor hmmm... let's see, not only are there very good leathers in ToB now but druids can also wear white dragon scale mail which has better ac than most plate mails.

Druids have all the high level abilities that clerics have and more. Plus while clerics will eventually run out of high level spells to pick from druids can keep on choosing elemental transformation which is put in the special ability menu.

Imoen taking on Cernd... as i recall Imoen is a Dual class thief/mage, unless i'm mistaken that's not a cleric.

I have put Jaheira toe to toe with Anomen, a little whirlwind attack and Anomen was turned to mush.

The holy symbol is unneeded, besides druids get a special ring which is similar.

So i don't see how you can think clerics are *WAY* better than druids.

Just posting that I agree with quite a bit of your response Tyresian. I think that Druids 'come in to thier own' a bit more in this expansion. The 'Insect Swarm' is still one of my top 3 spells that I cast in the first round of a group battle (especially if there are spellcasters in the enemy group).

I also believe that the Elemental Princes are the second most powerful summoned creature. The first is the Planetar... the third is the Deva. Druids can summon everything a Cleric can and more.

However a Cleric still has the powerful spells that seem to ignore magic resistance each and every time. Holy Smite, Bolt of Glory and Holy Word. The ability to turn Liches and the like into dust is awesome as well. Overall class power goes to the Cleric in my opinion but summonning power easily goes to the Druid.

Speaking of summoning, why are mages able to summon a more powerful angelic entity than clerics. You'd think that clerics should have a stronger connection to divine power. But as for imoen taking on cernd, I was just using her as an example of someone who is a complete weakling in melee. For summoning, I almost exclusively use planetars- nothing else seems to be good for much except damage fodder. Elemental transformation- seems kind of useless for Jaheira, as her stats with equipment are better. All said, I still get a kick out of using insect swarm, and get really pissed when enemies use it on me. btw, I did try the Anomen (flail of ages)/Jaheira (ixil's spike) battle again, and even with Jaheira using a whirlwind and Anomen just hacking away, Anomen still schooled her.

I also agree with the unreasonable summoning ability of the Mage class - the overpowerful Planetar-. Have you checked out the spells the Planetar has? Good grief! This guy can cast for hours and still have leftovers. I wholeheartedly conclude that Cleric's should have the ablsolutely most powerful Angelic and Demonic summoning spells.

Instead for some wierdo reason Mages do.

Druids should and do have the most powerful elemental summoning spells. I hope some things actually get a slight step better with Druids in NWN. Likewise that summoning ability that Mages have should migrate over to Clerics yesterday-like.

I did fail to mention a slightly underated summoning ability of Clerics. When fighting Yaga-Shura's troops (I deliberately delay going after him so his army can dump on me... hey, lots of XP!), I summoned 4 Skeleton warriors and hasted them & my party. They did extremely well. Not to mention... they stick around for hours compared to rounds of other summoned creatures.

[This message has been edited by Draco Vlasavius (edited July 12, 2001).]

The drawback of Druids is their shockingly high experience requirements...
Going from 13th to 14th level requires 225,000 experience for a Cleric, and 750,000 for a Druid. The gap from 14th to 15th is 225,000 for a Cleric and 1,500,000 for a Druid.

At the cap (8,000,000), Clerics are 40th level, Druids 31st.

Druids all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:d

hehe!
I remember that quote from the old bgdungeon boards :D

ToB is definetly worth the experience, BUY IT

Druids can wear great armor. Some of the good leather armors are Studded leather of thorns and Grandmaster's armor.

Are these armors in ToB? I never heard about them.

AFAIK they are. I found the thorne one but I can't remember if I found the other one or not.

Hmmmmm....
About the druid class:
They had to modify the druid conception for the game. In AD&D rules there is only one 15th level Druid in the prime material plane. When He become level 16 He chooses who will replace him as THE 15th level druid. When he goes level 16, 17, 18 ,19, 20, 21, 22, 23. He's not a druid anymore (He become a Hierophant) He lose is 5 bonus 7th level spell but aquire some Over-powerfull ability like elemental-planar travel...Wich means He could go to the fire plane and come back with the prince and an army of fire elemental if He had judge the case worth it (Wich means the case would be a danger for The Balance. In that case the elemental would gratefully join the Hierophant for the war)...

That wasn't possible to apply in the game so they modify the class. They could have made it a little more powerful though....

For example, if you are between the target and the caster of the spell creeping doom, you could take up to 1000 hp of damage. They did not rendered this very well in the game...There are many example like this...

*SMALL SPLOILER*
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You almost certinatly did. It was on Eldar Had (the thief in the fight with Gromnir-Il-Khan)
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*END SMALL SPOILER*

I think clerics are better than druids. For soloing, druids are better because they can summon better fighters, but in a team, clerics work way better.
Plus, clerics can use some REALLY good weapons such as the Crom Feayr, the Flail of the Ages, the Runhammer, and the Mace of Disruption. The druids can use okay weapons, but not very great. Belm, Impaler... Can't use any sort of sheild apart from a buckler.
Clerics can generally help the team out better, and are better fighters.
Druids can summon great creatures, but if I wanted lots of good fighters, I would take Sarevok, Korgon, Minsc, Keldorn, Valygar, and Anomen.

Oh, and clerics are SO much better at killing undead. Turn undead, weapons that kill undead, false dawn....

[This message has been edited by Shade (edited August 01, 2001).]

Shade, where you looking very hard for weapons?? What about the spectral brand, club of detonation, staff of the ram!!! You just listed SoA weapons but ToB has many good weapons that druids can use. And what about the staff of the woodlands from SoA!!!

For a good spear try Ixil's Spike +6.

The stats on the spear are excellent and it's other abilities are impressive. I did not use it much and was curious if there is any graphic depiction of the pinning feature.

personnaly i like druids more.I think that the larger experience gap in between levels is testemant to Druid suporiority, true you have to wait longer but paitence is a virtue

Dual a Fighter, whatever level, to a druid, and you can wear those armors, and swing those weapons. Works wonders..

I thought gravedigging was a no no :nono:

[No, playing a moderator and posting without substance (which is what you did), is a no-no. Adding valid input to a topic is always welcome. See the forum rules for more info.] -Tal

[ August 22, 2003, 13:45: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

I like both Druids and Clerics about equally. Druids have the same base THAC0 as clerics, and they can use some sweet weapons the Cleric cannot -- and vice versa! I like summoning Elemental Princes, and shapeshifting into an elemental is also tons of fun.
The only problem I have with Clerics is that they have so many cool methods for dealing with undead, it's hard to pick. Should I turn or should I cast Sunray or should I use the Mace of Disruption? Tough choices. For a Druid, it's easy -- cast a spell!

For me, it depends. If the Druid is a shapeshifter, I will choose him over any other Clerics but if I were to compare a vanilla druid with a cleric, I will choose a cleric.
Sure, the elemental princes are more stronger than the devas, but the devas can heal themselves and party members who are injured + they have some really useful spells.
As for the white dragon, since it is such a good armour, I will rather give it to my warriors, so clerics can still wear other plates armour, but druids will have to wear weaker armours.
For the third point, I didn't really look into that, so there is nothing I can say.
As for Jaheira vs Anomen, I have to agree with you, as Jaheira is a multi-class char, who have both the fighter and druid HLAs.
As for the holy symbol, it rocks! it gives +1 spell to Lv6 and Lv7 spells. So how can you say it is not needed? Yes the druid also gets a similar one, but for my thinking, the holy symbol suit best with Viconia, with it's +5 MR, combine with other stuffs + her own MR, she can easily reaches 100% MR.
Oh yeah! As for the weapons, I don't think I will really look into it as I rarely sent my druid or cleric to melee against my foes. I rather use them to play the shooting game when I run out of spells.
As for the multi-class fighter/druid, I remember reading some when in these forum that it is not a good idea + I heard alot that multi-class fighter/cleric rocks!
I can use clerics more effectively than I use druids, so I points these out. But I believe, druids are not better than clerics and clerics are not better than druids either.

[ August 23, 2003, 04:53: Message edited by: Skywind ]

[No, playing a moderator and posting without substance (which is what you did), is a no-no. Adding valid input to a topic is always welcome. See the forum rules for more info.] -Tal Point taken...

For me, it depends. If the Druid is a shapeshifter, I will choose him over any other Clerics... In an unmodded game?

Sure, the elemental princes are more stronger than the devas, but the devas can heal themselves and party members who are injured + they have some really useful spells. But druids can cast both.

the holy symbol suit best with Viconia, with it's +5 MR, combine with other stuffs + her own MR, she can easily reach 100% MR I don't see the point in comparing NPCs in a druid vs. cleric thread - a PC cleric won't have innate MR like Viconia for instance...

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[No, playing a moderator and posting without substance (which is what you did), is a no-no. Adding valid input to a topic is always welcome. See the forum rules for more info.] -Tal
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I really have no idea what you mean by that, pls simplify your words....(No offense meant)

For the shapeshifter, it is unmodded, as I asked many people who told me that the shapeshifter mod is too powerful.

Well, I am wrong(for the deva and elemtal princes stuffs), if thats true, but can a druid cast both at the same time? if that is possible, then druid must have a advantage here.

As for the holy symbol, I'm just pointing out to Tyresian that it is not useless, with it's bonus +1 to Lv6 and Lv7 spells and the npc part is for extra points(perhaps you mean I have to put a off-topic beside it next time?).

Anyway, one thing strikes me. If your main char is a evil cleric who gets the holy symbol and Viconia gets hers too, can your main char equip both the holy symbols? If it is possible, I suppose it is also an advantage?

[ August 24, 2003, 06:08: Message edited by: Skywind ]

Nothing meant for you Skywind. The person my words were meant for understood it. (As is evident in his post.)

Oops! I am feeling rather silly! :xx:
Sorry Victor Eremita....