This thread is about the fact that certain characters in ToB are overpowered.

Here is what I was able to do to a Fighter/Thief taking him solo through BG, SoA and most of Tob.

Name: Modjahed
Alignment: Neutral Evil
Race: Human
Class: DC Swashbuckler lvl 25 / Fighter lvl 26

Stats: +1 to all (+2 to WIS) in BG, +1 to all Lum the Mad, +3 STR Hell, +1 STR Deck of Many Things.

STR 24 DEX 21 CON 21 INT 12 WIS 21 CHA 5

Saving Throws: -3/-1/-2/-7/0

THACO: -18
Number of Attacks: 3
Lore: 95
OL 155 FT 155 PP 40 HS 105 MS 105 DI 175 ST 125
(those were the thief skills)

Proficiencies:
++ in LSw, Kat, WarH, Flail, TwoHSw, Axe
+ in Short Bow
+++ in Two-Weapon, ++ in Single Weapon, ++ in Two-Handed weapon.
Total of 20 proficiencies.

108 total HP, AC -26.

Special Abilities:
Use Any Item
Avoid Death
Lesser Whirlwind
2 Whirlwinds
Power Attack
Critical Strike
2 Hardiness
5 Set Trap

Equipment:
Shuruppak's Plate
Gauntlets of Extraordinary Spec.
Amulet of the Master Harper
Ring of Gaxx
Ring of Earth Control
Boots of Speed
Cloak of the Sewers
Belt of Inertial Barrier
Axe of Unyielding +5 single weapon

This is Fighter Mode.

Now in Thief Mode you put on the Human Flesh Armor and Flail of Ages +5 in the off-hand:

AC goes down to -18, but you now hide in shadows, and have 4 attacks per round.

Magic Resistance Mode:
Carsomyr +5, Amulet of Power - AC goes down further to -14, but Magic Resistance 90% and a couple Dispel Magics to use

Mixed Enemies Mode:
When I fight a large group of enemies with good mages I usually do the following:
Axe of Unyielding, Shield of Harmony, Plate, Ring of Free Action, Cloak of Mirroring.

I am then protected from almost all nasty spells (except Maze and Imprisomnent, but for those I have a couple of Spell Immunity Scrolls) and can tank very well:

AC -25, 3 att per round, protection from every direct spell as well as hold, charm, stun, confusion, domination.

And I have to say: the most useful item is the Bag of Holding :)



[This message has been edited by Modjahed (edited June 05, 2002).]

Barf, puke? Dual class at level 25??? HOly snikeys, what are you thinking. Oh well, way to min and max i'm sooo proud of you.

Great you have just proven that when you powergame the game becomes stupid. The game is not supposed to be played where you make the *best* character the game is all about the journey and evolution of your character.

Don't try to powergame a game that was not built for that, it makes the game pointless.

A few inconsistancies... First off, i agree that powergameing takes all the fun out of the game. not only that it make for a pasty complexion and lengthy bout of single-ness.:hahaerr:('dinner for two', 'not tonight jevees, im alone... oh so very alone...'):hahaerr:

Anyways, your 25/26 character would be impressive... if you didnt use ShadowKeeper or the CLUAConsole to do it! what you neglected to say is that if you dont dual over to fighter when your swash buckler is just barly lv25 at the very point of 3300000 xp, if you go one single point over, you cant get enough xp to hit lv 26 with your fighter class. which means... dah dum dummmm no dual. and you cant go below -10 ac, its programed in, unless you hacked THAT as well, doesnt happen dude.

I should apologize on the off chance you when out and stalked and murdered every rat, rabbit, and groundhog in the game to fine tune your xp, but nobody has that much free time... not and be able to afford internet and games.

beter luck next lie
:hippy:

and you cant go below -10 ac, its programed in, unless you hacked THAT as well, doesnt happen dude.


That's nonsense.



[This message has been edited by Mirkwood (edited January 30, 2002).]

I had a kensai/thief with -20 ac in a game once, overpowered? yes but you still have to earn the xp to get to the point of actualy that strong.

*taps ShadowDaemon on the shoulder* You might want to sit down now before embarassing yourself further. Modjahed does not lie, at least not intentionally. When it comes to these games, Modjahed is the man, plus he's been around since SP started, so show some respect please :p.

I once thought Modjahed was dead wrong on a subject. It turns out the manual (and I) was wrong, and he was most certainly right. So check your stuff before lambasting peeps :p.

BTW Modjahed, Impressive, most impressive :grin:

[This message has been edited by Big B (edited January 30, 2002).]

You missed one more for wisdom, there are 3 points to be gained in BG1.
I had a powerful character like yours but felt too guilty that I was way too powerful.

[This message has been edited by jbigdaddy (edited January 31, 2002).]

I will admit and apologize that I was wrong on the ac factor, but I stand firm on the XP points fact, cause i tested it... unless you removed the cap, which you could have done.... Im done talking now... embarased...

:angel: :evil:

Yes I was wondering about that too. Without checking my BG2 manual I would say that does sound like it exceeds the TOB cap which I think is about 8,000,000. Am I wrong?

I don't know - maybe he is using the x-cap remover ... it's an impressive character anyway :)

And as he pointed out, it's a powergamers dream. If you are powergaming, then why not remove the x-cap?

To Shadowdaemon & his cousins:
u all talk bs, accusing that poor guy for cheating and so on, but probably having mojor problems with maths yourselves.

lvl 25 swashb - 3.300.000
lvl 26 fighter - 4.500.000
xcap 8.000.000
that means - free 200.000 between lvls

realy, i mean no ofence, just thought i should throw my two cents, and test all this posting thingie, coz i just registered in.

just registered an account eh?

i smell fish. oh wait i'm having fish for dinner.

Just to say a few things.

I never cheat or exploit things - at least intentionally.

I only powergame.

Thanks, Minde, for clearing things up, because it would be very unfair - I have spent around two hours calculating possible dual-class combos and picking a class to play - and someone accuses me of chating before doing a simple add and subtract.

Originally I wanted to do a Swashbuckler/Mage with UAI but lvl 24/25 gets over the cap by some 110,000 so I was bound to do that S/F.

You said you solo'd him through BG, but BG doesn't have Swashbuckler's??

@StressedE:

Exactly :), he was just a plain thief back then. When I imported him to BG2 I was allowed to assign a kit to him.

@Modjahed
You mean to say you actually played this character from the start of BG1 to the end of ToB? :eek: :whoa:
To me it looks like a product made on paper with some help from SK. Absolutely no shame in that, it's great way of showing the potential of what you can do.

Let's look at the problems.
Dual classing at Thief-25? 3,139,000 xp into SoA/ToB dual classing a Thief leaves you with a ~100 HP Fighter-1. Sounds tricky to get him levelled up to where he can kill stuff.

HLA's.
As a thief you get two HLA's from the Thief pool at level 24 and 25, right?
As a fighter you get HLA's at levels 20-26, a total of 7 fighter HLA, right?
Yet you list 14 HLA's, I figure 9, am I wrong?

Anyway, you make a good show of what can be done! :)

Most impresive Modjahed, most impressive indeed.:D. I can't believe this is right though...it cant be possible to get a character like that!

[edit] I stand corrected! hat's off to you Modjahed!

[This message has been edited by Gopher (edited June 06, 2002).]

@Earl Grey:

What happened to you, man? "Set Traps" is not a HLA, it is the class ability of a thief ;) - so it does make 9 HLA.

Now I did use my knowledge of the game to complete this one - I tried to complete as many quests as I could as a Swashbuckler, but I didn't talk to the quest-giver to receive the quest XP after completion. So I reached the max as a Swashbuckler, then dual-classed, and after cleaning up I had to do only about 1,200,000 to regain my Swashie. Exactly at that time I had to fight Bodhi, and I did have to reload a few times.

PS. What is VERY interesting: When you get Use Any Item as a Thief, and then dual-class, the UAI ability STAYS with your fighter - so I was able to wield Carsomyr and wear Amulet of Power as a level 10 fighter. Cool!

What can I say? :xx: I'm not a trapper, so I missed them among all the HLA's. Haven't actually played any BG2 since before my previous PC totally burned up - electrical fire. :cry:
So, you were in chapter 6 when you dual classed?

You - together with Alex (Ascension mod... ) - can take credit for me installing Baldur's Gate once more. :)
I just begun a BG1 mc F/M hoping to solo her all the way through ToB.

The joy of powergaming...
at least to me is developing the strategy and tactics to OPTIMIZE a character or characters. Once I see that there is no challenge for the character(s), it's time for the next scenario. Everybody has their own idea of fun. Let's not force our opinions on others.

Hats off to Modjahed, a power gamer supreme. With my experience (still learning), I would have thought the game would be much easier completed as a mage type (single, dual or multi-class). Yet, Modjahed has created a super hero from a fighter-thief!

Why didnt ye use power armor as well???
AC - 10! Made of golden and silver and brons pantalons....

NO powergaming sux, but can be fun playing multi against eachother. If ye use cheatcodes to summon creatures and stuff.

I thought that as soon as you change class, all the surplus experience over and above what it took you to just get to your current level was dropped. So micromanaging the experience like Shadow Daemon says would have to be done...well it wouldn't. I've only dual classed a couple times ever so I might be wrong, but I'm sure enough that I'd be willing to place an embarrassing wager on it.

Yes... it's a powergamer's dream if that powergamer can stand playing a solo thief for 25 levels...

My swashbuckler(17,18,16,9,18,9 - 3 Dual Wield, 1 Long Sword, Max Find Traps, Open Locks, half Set Traps) is on day 7 game time and still on the first level of Irenicus' Dungeon... skipping the Cambion might have saved some time though...

@Alex:

I just :love: love :love: Swashbuvklers. I think they are the best kit in the game and are GREAT for any kind of Dual-class.

I even beat the game with a Swashbuckler.

For me the transition period with a solo fighter was much harder, than the beginning with a Swashie.

Cool!!!

My super guy is now a leve 40 fighter!!!


Paddy!!!