Ok you have a character at max level for evey possible character class in TOB.
You have a massive gaming area into which they are all placed.
So everyone has time to prepair in their own specific ways.
Who's going to win.
Ok I know that it would depend on how the characters are played and on tactics, but these aside which class would you expect to see standing at the end of the day?
I'm at work now so I will post what I think later, but what do you think?

my vote is for the monk because of the armour class and magic resistance. And if someone fails a save they are in trouble.

A maxed out mc cleric/ranger would school them all...

-fighter type
-Ironskins
-all druid and cleric spells
-Crom Faeyr and Flail of Ages (upgraded)
- skills from fighter pool and cleric pool

Tough luck to anyone who gets in his or her way. ;)

Sorcerer, 6 spells from all 9 levels and if any legal BG2/TOB equipment is allowed use Robe of Venca + Amulate of Power cast Time Stop/Improved Alacrity, set up defences then kill. If nessacary you can Wish for spells back or double length TS/IA.

Monk goes down quick w/ 3 Lower Resists and 6 Magic Missiles and 3 Abi Dalzim's. Never gets close for that quivering palm (not that it is likely any max level character would fail that throw w/o Greater Malison).

I'm sorry but i dont think monk is that great a class on his own, he's good for scouting and been at the front lines but that's about it.
I tried soloing a monk in tob and he got killed about 20 seconds after he got to the drow, and yet if I play a archer or spell caster type character i can win barly taking a scratch, so imo the monk is one of the weakest classes in the game despite all them abilitys, resistances and ac, or maby it's just me, could someone please enlighten me on any ways there are you can use a monk to there full potential.
oh and btw the monk only has about 3/4 of a fighter's hp and dosen't have much lower ac.

[This message has been edited by I love bg2 (edited January 31, 2002).]

Ok there doesn't seem to be a general choice here, I thought as much. I guess this is just a situation where you can talk all you want but you'd actually just have to do it, as I described in my first post. We all get online and duke it out. Or we have like a round robin where everyone squares off against each other at least one time.

A fighter could only ever win if he hit first, and there was no prep time. Even so cast shadow door, wait a few moments, cast timestop. The rest is history.

Question is with or without Robe of Vecna?

With it any mage will wipe floor, more so the sorcerer. Time Stop followed by just about whatever you like. eg 3 lower resistance, greater mallison and 3 skull traps from a spell trigger should do the trick... at 31 d6 each that is pretty nasty, even if you make the save each time.

Perhaps chain contingency of 3 Abi Dalzim's to go with it? Wish, extended time stop, the possibilities are limited by your imagination only.

Any opponent would be toast.

Magic Resistance is overrated IMO. One lower resistance lowers is by about 30% depending on level, so just pop 3 in a spell sequencer and that monk is toast! Also a protection from magical weapons will last long enough for you to pull off a time stop then the rest is easy. You could try protection from magical energy, improved alracity then fling skulltraps like crazy. Or you could make a shield of defenses, with 2 flameshields of different color included and watch him kill himself :). Against a human oppenent, spellcasters rule supreme!

I think that at high levels, any class can beat any class. Just like in sports where the worst team can beat the best team.

However, I'd take my chances with a Sorcerer with:

1. 3 Lower Resistances in a Spell Trigger
2. Stoneskin, Protection from Magic Weapons, Mislead in a Chain Contingency set to go off when you see an enemy.
3. Wearing the Cloak of Non-Detection.

When the fight starts, the Sorcerer will be invisible so he can't be targeted. Then depending on the opponent, I'd probably cast Time Stop, then Imprison. If it was a monk, I'd use the Spell Trigger to lower his resistance by 90%. Then imprison him.

Mage, hands down. In combat, imagine this:

Mage-chain congincey triggered
Mage-spell trigger triggered
Mage-congincey triggered
Mage-minor sequencer triggered
Mage-spell sequncer triggered

With the robe of Venca you could trigger all those pretty dang quick. And all the spells he could have in the congencys, like improved mantle, globe of invulnerability, flame shield, ect.

Then time stop, followed by several wails of the banshee could take a lot of guys out. This could be followed with another time stop, where there's protection from evil, and some gate spells cast. The mage would be really lethal. :evil::evil::evil:







[This message has been edited by Lithorn (edited February 01, 2002).]

A spell caster cant kill all max level characters. How many magic resist spells can you get? A maxed 40 all fighter/mage/cleric could win I guess. Protective magics intill all charcters kill each other while the cleric/mage part summons monsters to his aid as well.

Only a few classes gain MR, most of it is from items, and even with those you can only get it up to a certain point...

He could just sit tight and keep his defenses up while the rest kill each other :). Hmm, a Sorcerer could have 7 lower resistances with the Ring of Wizardry, not sure how many other items increase the amount of level 5 spells you can memorize. Also he could have 3 in a spell trigger...

Alienboy, be realistic.

A 40/40/40 Fighter/Cleric/Mage Multi?

Not really comparing like with like here are we?

Stick with the cap, that was the thread I believe.

You're all wrong - *I* would win ... with *any* class ... :spin: :roll: :rolleyes: :p

Seriously: It mainly depends on how well you use your classes abilities - in terms of flexibility, variety of abilities and possibilities to seize the tactical initiative I'd say it'll be probably a f/m/t or f/m or m/t played by a smart player. Once again thieves rule ... On every level, low or high it's the intelligence of the player that makes the diference - I mean: An idiot will even die with a level 40/40/40 char ... no class is foolproof :D

:angel: [Oh, I feel modest - must I be sick] :holy:

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited February 01, 2002).]

Well I did say in the first post that it was going to depend on tactics and how the character was played, and thats pretty true.
Everyone on this board needs to get online, virtual world baby and we duke it out :evil:

Spellcaster typpe needs prep time, so if he gest ambush hes screwed. Ie, a spellcaster walking happily into the tavern. A rogue lurking in the shadows, and kaboom backstab the spellcaster. The caster will be dead, unless hes smart it has some sort of contigency, woot. But, yeah i agree magic users have the upper hand in high level battles. But, its not like amagic user can walk around with protections and whatnot. If a warrior starts hacking and slashing you'll probably fail to cast spells.. soo woot, it all depend osn the nature of the combat.

Well, I think a smart person using a Monk with very high Hide in Shadows and Move Silently skill will definitely rule the day.

Mage casting spell? Hide in Shadows
Warriors attacking? Hide in Shadows
Thief trying to backstab? Hide in Shadows

;)

I only say this....: Thieves.

As soon as even a spellcaster walks into his area then all those traps would go whap! He's down.

Apart from that unrealistic thought, i think spellcasters would wipe the floor.

Timestop and Robe of Vecna with improved alacrity - anyone is already dead before they know it.

thanks,
gopherboy

Almost anyone could take anyone its all about tactics. Its not just a straight face off, its in a virtual world, hunting each other down, setting traps, it comes down to tactics a little luck and the player.

Mage defenitley! Another support thought:

Mage: Dragons Breath
Mage: Comet
Mage: Dragons Breath
Mage: Comet:evil::evil::evil:

[This message has been edited by Lithorn (edited February 02, 2002).]

Simple a theif would win as they are imune to spells when hiding in shadows (apart from area effect ones) can do mass damage with backstab and would wait till there was only the last person left and kill them in one go as thats what theifs do. Failling that a spellcaster would win if they had time to prepare their spells

I've yet to meet a thief in the game who could backstab my sorcerer with stoneskin and mirror image. Sure, backstab, critcal hit, NIL damage.

You planning to wait in shadows for 12 hours for the stoneskins to wear off? I'm sure some area of effect spells will see to that idea. Sunfire, Abi Dalzim's - we have a very sorry looking thief on our hands.

Traps perhaps if the preparation time is there. Otherwise toast.

A thief with the use any item ability casts simulacrum or uses the helm(I forget the name), next that thief casts a spell or uses a wand to remove your protections, while the other was using the detect illusions skill to dispell your mirror image, quickly downs an invisibility potion comes up behind you and backstabs you.

Or even easier, I play a Kensai/Theif and I have killed countless mages that were mirror imaged and stoneskinned. Yes, the first backstab doesn't damage you but with two swords in hand and one of those swords being celestial fury, having cast improved haste with the ring of gaxx, and the speed at which a Kensai can attack, many a mage has sat there stuned while mirror image and stoneskin is beaten away, being continually stuned because of the pure number of attacks, until splat.

One lucky blow I ask you. Tsk, Tsk. :)

Of course it's possible, but you'd have to get the stunning blow in before time stop kicks in, as afterwards there wouldn't be anything left to feed the crows.

Even so, with chain contingency and spell trigger both casting 3 spells simultaneuosly, I really wouldn't fancy your chances.

jbigdaddy,
you can achieve the same thing by making a stalker dualwield the demarches stiletto and the pixie prick daggers = high number of attacks and nice item effects ...

btw - you can hide in shadows beneath a sleeping victim :evil:

However, I'd also like to mention the archer - a wonderful class that - on high level - has an awesome striking power: how about improved haste, aimed shot and arrows of dispelling and/or biting (it's hard to cast a spell when you're under a rain of arrows *and* suffering regular poison damage, while your protections are dispelled regularly). And when the mage - against all odds - has managed to cast mantle the archer could close in with the flail of the ages (elemental damage goes through stoneskin) ... IMO it mainly depends on tactics who'd win.

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited February 03, 2002).]

How about a wizard slayer who just happens to have one of those scrolls which gives 100% immunity to magic?

Anyone would be powerful with that scroll, not only the wizard slayer.

Yup, tactics baby tactics. It's no good posting I'm going to do this and this and then you'll be dead...hahahaha :evil:
You say well they're going to do this, so I'll do that, which means you'll do this and on and on and on...
This is something which has to be done online. Roll on NWN. :evil:

I agree on tactics, the mage would be strong though as would the kensai/mage, F/M/T, F/M/C, R/C and assasin/swashbuckler mage...

I just played a "duel" online with my level 13/25 Assassin/Mage, it was very fun. Both of my oppenents weren't legit at all, one was using Jon Irenicus's exact character, and the other was using some hacked f/m/t max level with grandmastery in all weapons and 25 in all stats. First, everyone was given time to prepare, and cast defensive spells and other things. When we actually started fighting the guy playing irenicus summoned multiple demons, and the other(probably a newbie, after all, his character was hacked), just kept swinging at him while the other ran off. I just let them fart around while I made a mislead and hid it out of sight, then cast breach on the Irenicus. Piece of cake, he went down in only 2 backstabs! The other fell the same way. So, I think tactics reign supreme, I was able to defeat two people with hacked characters, 2 rings of gaxx, ect.

Tactics Rule the day!

Also remember guys that Mage/Sorcerer can cast multiple time stops. He can time stop, greater alarcity, shoot out a few abi dalzims, another time stop, summon a planetar or two, another time stop etc. and with triggers and contingencies he is unbeatable. But you seriously need to be experienced otherwise you might fumble around and mess things up.

Sorcerer without skill = sword fodder
Sorcerer with skill = unstoppable

Hehe Bounty Hunter would win. As by the time all his traps went of, everyone would be dead anyway :p (after all you did say everyone can prepare in there own special way)

That's the problem, the other guy is STILL your party member, so a lot of spells like Horrid Wilting don't work, nor do traps.

Thats pretty funny, they can't play legit and still you kick their asses. :evil: