Why are spell based on CHARISMA?
Most wizards are inteligent, NOT charismatic.

That's 3rd edition D&D for you...

Something else to puke for you: Lay on hands and undead turning will also be charisma based ... :D

I think they 'rounded' out the stats a little more. Instead of the 'primary', you now have a 'secondary' and 'tertiary'.

Yeah, I'm having a tough time adjusting to 3rd E. Actually, I'm having a tough time justifying 3rd E. The 2nd E rules might have been constricting, but at least you could justify their existance. Two steps forward, and two steps back is a change; but is it progress?

I am much more willing to give 3rd edition a chance with IwD2...

I think the general simplification form 3e compared to 2e is a step forward.

How often have I been asked by friends to explain THACO and AC to them :rolleyes: - now, with the modified AC and attack bonus that's much clearer for newbies. The same for the saves, now you have just 3 basic saves categories and that's it. Don't understand thievery? No problem: A thievery action is handled like an attack with the difficulty class of the lock/ trap etc in place of the enemies AC, using skillpoints as the "attack bonus". Easy.

I like the effect from Wis and Chr on paladins (undead turning, saves, lay on hands), monks (AC, saves) and sorcerers (amount of spells) abilities - that's how it was meant to be. Besides, there's a difference between wizards and sorcerers, the ones using chr instead of int are the sorcerers. The wizards remain smart and will still rely on int in IWD-2 ;)

The feat system may be a litle confusing at the beginning but it allows you a LOT of leeway to customize the char exactly how you like him to be, IMO that really compensates for the 'lack' of kits or prestige classes. All classes for all races AND the introduction of the long wished subraces are also another great step ahead. These features will make IWD-2 a much more interesting game that IWD.

No insult intended but except ignorance I don't see a real point in your rant Haohmaru Khan :(

[ August 08, 2002, 14:29: Message edited by: Ragusa ]

ALL spells based on CHA? I thought only Sorcerers spells were?

Unless IWD2 has changed the rules around in the game 3E does NOT use the CHA modifier for all spells. Bard and Sorcerer spells are effected by CHA. While wizard spells are effected by INT, and divine spells by WIS. This modifier effects spell DC, max spell level, and bonus spells. Yes, CHA does effect turning the paladin abilities, but I see no problem with this. 3E is far better then 2E do to these rules and tons of others.

Again this is 'normal' 3E who know what rules they have applied in the game.

OK! I'll try and clear this up once and for all...

Sorcerer and Bardic spells are charisma based, because they are either your skill at manipulating energy (sort of using your high charisma to shape your powers into effects) or your ability to perform and play, also based on charisma.

Wizard spells are based on intelligence, as before.

Cleric, druid, ranger and paladins are all still based on wisdom too...

Ok, only bard and sorcerer spells are charisma based, and charisma will effect some of the skills used by certain classes, such as Paladin lay hand and cleric/paladin turn undead.

Wizards still use int to cast spells.

Druids, Clerics, Paladins and Rangers still use wisdom.

I personally like 3rd edition rules, they streamlined the exsisting rules, and brought the classes closer together in power. No more just needed to not botch with a 1 for a saving throw at high levels for instance when a wizard the same level casts a spell on you.

As far as charisma getting good use, thank goodness, its about time they did not put a useless attribute up there for all the power players to knock down to 3 and bump up thier other stats. Charisma only had an effect in AD&D when the game was truly roplayed, and that does not transfer well to video or PC game.

I'm getting fine with everything except feat sistem for fighters. They get most feats compared to other classes. And in NvN this created a way all fighters should follow to get the best out of themselves.

Well, yes and no. It all depends on what you want out of your figheter. The feat system allows for so much more customization with the fighter class then before. Plus it also gives them something to look forward to when leveling up above and beyond simple attack progression. So you want an agile fighter that slashes with two short swords at once? Not a problem. Want an excellent bowman above all else. Sure. Want your average amor plated tank. Gotcha. Want a chain shirt wearing chain fighter that trips oponents so his partner can stab them on the ground? Ok, maybe not in IWD 2, but you can in full 3E. There is the simple and basic combo of going with power attack and cleave, etc. But the nice thing is, you don't have to.