How many people out there use Bards in their parties? Do you think them useful or, like me, that they're a waste of spece? And if you do use them, in what role? Singer, spellcaster or fighter?

Poll Information
This poll contains 2 question(s). 49 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Poll Results: Are Bards useful? (49 votes.)

Do you think Bards are a must-have? (Choose 1)
* Yes, absolutely. - 41% (20)
* No, never use one. - 59% (29)

If you do include a Bard, in what role is he (primarily) used? (Choose 1)
* Singer - 55% (27)
* Spellcaster - 27% (13)
* Fighter - 18% (9)

If I want a...

- Tank
I'd rather take a Fighter, Barbarian or Paladin.

- Spellcaster
I'd rather take a Sorcerer or possibly a Wizard.

- Spellsword
I'd rather take a Fighter/Wizard or Paladin/Sorcerer or Cleric etc.

- Singer
I've probably lost it and need to be slapped. :p

I always take a bard.

And bards rock. They rock harder at the upper levels than they do at the lower levels, though.

Ah yes, the vaunted "they rock" argument! :p
But why does the bard rock so much?

What is the alternative cost of taking a Bard? (Translated: Could another character "rock" more?)

:D :D He rocks because he's singing rock not pop or black(if he's a drow actually he can sing black also) :D :D

On topic:I love bards something like Bard 11\sorcerer X - it has simlply terrific amount of spells and also more different, because what you cannot take with sorcerer you take as bard.They are good healers too.

[ December 08, 2002, 03:13: Message edited by: AlexGK ]

I like their spell casting ability. And they can handle more weapons (by default) than a sorcerer. And they get several dialogues that are character specific.

The songs are nice at the higher levels. They don't give a massive bonus, but it's enough to make your entire party noticably more effective in actually hitting what they are swinging at.

As far as spellcasting, they get some very excellent summoning spells, and some area effect fire based spells. Levels 7 and 8.

Bards cannot hold their own like a pure fighter or wizard can. They are NOT a substitute.

But for the Good of the Party, they are excellent choices.

I will go so far as to say that a bard is more useful than a ranger, IN Icewind Dale 2.

That may not hold up in Baldur's Gate, or Board D&D. But in the IwD2, they are.

I.e. They rock.

i will always say : use a bard !

they have healing spells like cleric and summon spells like mage ( except SU) and a lot of mind effecting (useless to me except countercharm) spells.

if you have a bard you can quickly remove fear in battle by playing grunghi song and of course you have the allmighty, though weakened compared to iwd1, warsong of sith (<-- correct engl term ?)

Bard doesn't fit into my strategies. Sure, i do need the immune fear song sometime, but i don't sacrifice a character slot for a 'sometime useful person'. i use animate undead a lot and these undead cannot hear a thing. my fighters are just dummies standing to throw in a hammer or two.

In my first party (I have 3) I have a bard who is brilliant, she is an Elf, she uses a longbow and longsword for close combat. Her spells are brilliant and she can cast a lot with charisma at 20

She is very fun and cool :thumb:

if i remember correct mighty boneguard (undead) has no selfregeneration. but it does regenerate under warsong of sith

I always take along a Bard, and then dual class to a Sorcerer. So he ends up as my main caster, but can also sing, and carry out the rogue type skills for the party.
So I no longer need to take a rogue with me.

I will go so far as to say that a bard is more useful than a ranger, IN Icewind Dale 2.

That may not hold up in Baldur's Gate, or Board D&D. But in the IwD2, they are.Well, that isn't really saying much, since Rangers suck big-time in IWD2. The ability to dual-wield at first level is cool, but there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to have anyone with more than one level of Ranger in your party.

And don't start muttering about Favoured Enemy; those bonuses tend to be outdated when you need them. Taking orcs or goblins to begin with is nice, but you'll never see any again after Chapter 1, and so towards the end of the game you'll have a 16th-level Ranger with +5 vs. orcs, who'll never see one again and who could kill 4 per round even without the bonus...

I have come to think of bards as needing "fine tuning" (no pun intended). I fell in love with the Blade kit in BG2 and so I feel that multiclassing in IWD2 makes a good "semi-bard". Good choices would be either fighter or ranger, the dualwield would be good, or rogue. I imagine a rogue multiclassed bard as an assassin with the Envenom weapon. I also imagine a "spellcaster" bard by multiclassing to sorcerer since they both cast spells from CHA. I also imagine multiclassing with paladin, for the same reason.

One of my favourite IWD2 characters in my Gold dwarf Bard... :cool:

Bad choices in multiclassing can make them suck big time. One huge mistake I made and regretted the whole way, was "celtic" druid/bard. He was "krappe" and crap. Bad, bad move. So, if you do multiclass the bard, and I recommend that, don't pick a class that will not get much power. Otherwise your "messed up" character will be crap and then our friend Earl Grey will be proved correct... ;)

[ December 07, 2002, 16:00: Message edited by: Khazraj ]

First of all, I am offended by this:

He rocks because he's singing rock not pop ot black(if he's a drow actually he can sing black also) Now, back on topic!

I have tried bards a few times, and never seem to use them very much - they don't fit my style of play, i guess you could say. Maybe if I found the right multiclass combo...

Bards are definitely not a "must have" as the poll question puts it.

In fact, it all depends on the game, but in more games than not, I felt that a good fighter and a good thief were the only "must haves".
Then again, I've played many games without spellcasters at all in the beginning, because I found having to rest after every battle just sucks.

"Quint" my avatar, is actually my NWN monk. He laughed in the face of all spellcasters. Even the most powerful couldn't touch him. He used to just stand there doing nothing while they throw all their spells on him, until they had no more spells left and came at him with their daggers!
Then he hit once, and that was enough. :D

Singers you say?

@Falstaff,
why offended?it was just a joke :confused:

I also imagine multiclassing with paladin, for the same reason. you cannot do that, alignment restriction.

Oops. forgot about that. It is so easy to do with the 3E multiclassing rules...

Anyway, let's just imagine...or use Weimer mods...

@Bloodtitan... Check out Weimer's Mods. There is a Non-Combat War Chant of Sith 'cheat' that you can install. You can take a look here: http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/IWD2/index_editors.htm

Regarding the poll.

"Do you think Bards are a must-have?"

I voted no. You can easily get through IWD2 without a Bard. To be more specific, Bards aren't a "must have" in any of the other games, i.e. BG, BG2 etc. They are more of a handy addition to a party. More so in IWD2 and BG2 (a Blade of course) then in any other of the games.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Bards, and have been since the very first PnP session I played some 14 years ago. Obviously the first PnP character I ever played was a Bard. It was a good time. Anyway, I always include a Bard in one of my trips through these games, but I usually don't have one in my party the first time through. As was stated, they aren't a "must have" in order to beat the game.

"If you do include a Bard, in what role is he (primarily) used?"

I voted Singer, but that's a generic description to say the least. I'm on my 2nd trip through IWD2 and I'm playing with a 4 member posse. One of them is a Bard. To be more specific, Shadowfax a Female Tiefling: Ranger 1/Rogue 2/Bard x. I've been using her as fighter/singer/spellcaster. A combo of the three. I have her dual-weilding daggers and during battle I basicaly keep her up close to my fighters while she stands around jammin' The Battle of Three Heroes (can't play War Chant yet) for a while. From there she has a few options. Throw down in melee or cast a spell or two.

I'll probably give her another level of Rouge for the Envenom Weapon feat and more Sneak Attack damage. I also like to have her invisible and then Sneak Attack an enemy. I plan on taking her through HoF so I'm not worried about the 20% penatly to XP gained (She's only 1 level behind everyone else) plus I'm using Weimer's mods. Suggestions are welcome of course. If anyone has any ideas on how to advance her let me know. She's still young, I just completed chapter 2.

Bottom line, in IWD2 with the 3 Ed. rules (not sure how accurate they are, don't have the 3 Ed. PHB) I think Bards are at their best when multi-classed with a Ranger or Rogue. With the proper skills and high CHR and/or INT they can make a great "spokesman" for the party. They can come in handy and are fun to play. Oh yeah I almost forgot, Bards ROCK!

[ December 08, 2002, 12:55: Message edited by: Thorongil ]

For the first time I'm taking a bard through one of these games.

Never used one in BG/BG2 or IWD, so I thought with this game: "I'm going to have a fun, different party". So a bard is in, a druid is in, cleric is out since I trusted the bard and druid to handle the healing.

I'm probably not using either of them as well as I could yet, but it's fun to have some more varied options than I used to have with traditional Fighter/wizard/thief/cleric style parties that I've tended to play before.

I'll tell you later if I think he truly rocks, or it's more of a boy band wimper.

Sure, a Bard probably isn't a 'must have' but then not much really is. Bards suit my playing style because I am too lazy to micro manage all my characters for every encounter and get bored of going through all the 'buff up' routines etc. So a Bard is brilliant because you can push the sing button then let them do their stuff. Plus, if you give them high intelligence and dexterity as well, they can do all the Rogue jobs, plus the identifying and talking. Brilliant.

@Falstaff: come on man, you didn't take AlexGK's commentary so seriously did you??? It was just a joke...

On topic: i never use bards in any games, i don't like them... nothing personal against them but i think they're sissies :grin:
Now guys don't take what i wrote too seriously...

like Harbourboy said...

imho, a Bard is sort of a jack of all trades but master of none...

he cant fight as well as the fighter (or barb)

cant cast spells as well as the sorc or wiz

cant sneak around/pick locks like the rogue

but he can do all of those things marginally well, and you can focus on one or more if you want to...

I generally do not use Bards, but I can see their usefullness... I will try to play one in the future.

a Bard isnt a must for a party, but it can fit in nicely...

using a Bard could possibly allow you to focus on other things with your other characters... give your Bard high Int and Cha, and he/she can be your party spokesperson, as well as perform some of the rogue abilities... plus cast decent spells. throw in some multiclass with rogue and sorc, and this character could be very effective...

if you have a party strong in melee, a Bard is a nice support char with their songs and buff spells... and can act as excellent missle support, imho.

the Bard might be best suited to smaller parties where he/she can serve multiple roles within the party so that the other characters can be focused into one area (melee, spells, etc)

I will not use any bard ever, and they are definately easily eliminated at character creation. The whole idea of some dude/dade singing and playing a flute while a battle rages on and fireballs and such are being thrown everywhere is absurd. So once again, they are not must haves by any stretch of the imagination. Utterly ridiculous to even ponder the idea.

I considered taking a bard for a short time, but I decided it was moderately useless. Spontaneous healing of good clerics is enough for any party's healing needs, charisma-mongers include sorcerers and paladins, sorcerers with a decent selection of spells provide better buffs for whole party than some bard's song. Thieving skills of bards are just a joke unless someone does bother pickpocketing. So, I finally took a paladin with high int for the leader and spokesman, a good old dwarven fighter pure class for the versatile tanking, a morninglord with nice stat distribution for healing, spontaneous included, and auxilliary tanking, two sorceresses for buffs and a human rogue(2)/ranger(x) for scouting, searching, lockpicking and disarming. And then it worked like a charm, almost no fun sometimes. So what would I need a pathetic bard for?

Because they're fun.

And that horn that summons the barbarians instantly is very useful (and funny) for a few chapters.

Bards rock.

I might make an all Bard party and see how they go.....

I like them. I wante to try having a bard in a party once and I was amazed at how fun they were. Not too much to dpeak of at loew levels, but as the game went on they became more and more useful. Eventually, my cleric didn't have to use much of anything for his healing - my Bard took care of it all, freeing up slots for more interesting cleric spells.

Plus the soundset is great! :D

But seriously, I play Bards. All the time. Im going through a re-run of Icewind Dale II and my party consists of Me (Half-elf Bard), a Wizard, a Ranger and a Rogue. This way, the Ranger will hold off the enemies, while the Rogue can backstab in the area's that need it while running round the battle, and the Wizard can beef them both up with spells, while frying the opposition?

Me, I can Hide, creep up at smack the odd orc over the head should I need to. I could summon critters or flame them all. I could even sing.

I fill the spaces that need me. Plus bards conversational skills are great, and you only need one Diplomat. They Rock :D

As a powergamer i dont know if you would like my opinion or not but i have played the game twice so far and this is what i think of bard.

Being a Tank
Well unless you are trying to be tought or want the game to go slowly because of melee combat or you have the patients to revive the bard all the time because he is slayen by things like duegar and aurilite rangers i dont suggest it.

On the other hand we have the pallie of helm*eg* which at level 8 after aquiring the fiendslyer feat can start to take fighter levels which means he gets cleric spell and paladin magic(special abilities like smite evil) and a plus to AC with his charisma but also he can use items like the little giant(SPOILER:+4 str only for fighters) which cn enhance his powers greatly. Also he can get that long blade specialization for the Cera Sumat wich when dueled with the golden heart of <CHARNAME> makes him pure hardcore! :D

A fighter here is a good option but a pallie of helm could kill one because of many reasons like extra haling and bonus AC(NOTE: only at level 12 thought).

As a spellcaster
Well well they have their uses with a strange mage and cleric mix spells an i found that bards are better casters than fighters. I woud prefer a sorceror or wizard(more wizard) and also a pallie of mystra does a grand job at higher levels as long as you have some good drow armor or drakkas furry).

Best use
A bards best use is his voice (AMAZINGLY) he can use those nasty spells not only to boost youre battle prowess but also to weaken that of the enemies and he can at higher levels give you regeneration and domination over youre enemies. At the black raven monastery i had a bard do the quests using the dominating song and it worked wonders until the two lasts chambers where the monks where a little hardcore so i used my paladin.


In conclusion
Bards do not rck or suck they are medium with a good balance between spellcraft and melee althought so far i hve prefered having a rogue/bard for certain reasons. Also a bard with ambidexterity two weapon fghting and weapon finesse can take down a fighter at higher levels. :p

You could always give him a Ranger level, and get the Two Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity feats for free, as well as better Fighting ability.

Though doing so for the sake of the feats is pure powergaming evil ( :nono: ), but for Roleplay purposes is fine. I play Ranger/Bards a lot :)

The Bard/Sorceror combo is pretty good; you'll never run out of spells again.

A good build is to take 11 levels of Bard for the all the songs and take the rest as Sorceror (effectively making a Bard 11/Sorceror X). This build won't be really effective until you start HoF but until then they make great support characters with their songs and(for high dex bards) decent crossbow skills.

Another plus is that they can use the Bardic Horn of Valhalla; a great artifact that summons 2 to 4 barbarian warriors to act as meat shields.
The barbarians have good HP and are useful even towards the end of the game.