This is ridiculous! I really don't know why mage enemies are weak in IWD2. I do not like their scripts as well. They act foolishly and occasionaly die before they can cast something decent.

Think about it, in BG2, enemy mages are deadly, and a power to be feared, in IWD2, they are just first to die, at least in my battles, I always go for the mages and they die. Fast.

Some may suggest that in BG2 mages have Triggers and Contingenies, but still enemy mages in IWD2 COULD be more powerful even without these.

Think about mage enemies, have you ever found one mage battle difficult? Except the first one (Caballus) and last one(I&M)they do not count as in the first fight you have few levels, and last fight HAD to be tough. But others are weak IMHO.

Mentionable mages are that Lich and Saablic Tan, but still they are doable. They are extra-ordinary as they manage to cast high level spells suprisingly. But, come on, if I see a lich casting a WoB I can get away fast and be unaffected! (my friend didn't bother and lost 5 members to the wail. But he is a terrible player, mind you) Saablic Tan is hard as he has an army. BUt he is still the first to go down as I concentrate on him solely, his apprentice casters are pathetic. I looked via DK2 and saw that they have Disintegrate, a fearsome combat spell memorized, BUT they never cast it! So they suck!

Funny, that Beastlord Harshorn's apprentices kept killing me in HoF as they continously casted Magic Misiles on one member, 20-50 damage per cast, (4 casts so multiply this to 80-200 per round)with no save kills fast. Is this all great magery? I casted a shield on my mage and they were NOTHING. I sure did miss magical duels of high caliber in BG2. I don't know, maybe I am a bit too used to tactic's smarter mages&liches. :D

Isair and Madae are, smart, deadly, powerful, organized, they have B plans, and they have a nasty army!

So what do you think? Do you have painful memories with IWD2 enemy mages? Do you think they are weak, normal, or powerful? Share your thoughts with me :p

ps:Can someone make a little scripting mod to enhance enemy casters so that they will cast more intelligently and efficiently. IE:Cast will save spells on fighters, cast Fort. save ones on weaklings like mages etc. And please, enemy mages should enter battle pre-buffed, as my casters enter buffed up to the max and with heavy summons.

I hate how monsters cast Sanctuary on themselves and then immediately attack.

Enemy spellcasters are pretty stupid most of the time. Only the named one's will ever give you real grief.
Still the others are annoying as well. A well placed Hold Person that puts your tank at the mercy of the enemy was a frequent cause of reload during the early chapters.

Ofcourse mages will seem to be weaker after BG II and its cheesy contingensies and spell triggers. IMO Mages were overpowered and unbalanced in that game. Mages cannot take on anyone and defend themselves on their own. They need a wall warriors from behind whom to cast their spells safely.
Now prebuffed mages on the attack is always another matter.

It also is not that there are many all day buffs that a spellcaster would be wearing on a Normal day.
While they may be gaurding a particular post, they aren't expecting you to show up when you do. As such for a mage to have pre-buffs which normally only last for a few rounds is simply wrong imo.

If anyone is making a script for more intelligent spellcasters; a few all day buffs would include: Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Iron Skins, Mage Armor, Mind Blank, Non-Detection. A well placed Skull Trap or Glyph of Warding also would be useful.

Shrikant is right. The magic-users in IWD2 just seem lamer because you might be used to the ridiculous ones in BGII who somehow manage to instantly put up every buff in the history of magic as soon as you walk in the door.

I still thought the IWD2 ones were hard when I played for the first time, but that would have been more because I sucked, rather than because they were any good.

Let me echo Shrikant and Harbourboy -- the problem isn't that IWD2 mages are weak, the problem is that BIS mages are weak. The BG2 designers openly admitted (if I recall correctly from the days of BG Chronicles) that they had to give their mages massive Contingency and Trigger boosts that bent the rules, because otherwise the mages were too easy. Sorta like how Sid Meier didn't improve the AI in Civ 1 to increase the difficulty, he just let the computer cheat. The too-quick mage-slaying got so bad in the original BG1 that one of the early patch fixes was to make sure that plot-critical enemy mages would always give their dialogue before they had a chance to be smacked.

The real problem, to my mind, is that with limitless save/restore, replaying, and free pausing, your party can anticipate that the mage is coming and target him directly. In a "real" situation, unless the party had arranged an ambush or enjoys flawless discipline, there would be at least a few moments of surprise and disorganization upon meeting the enemy, giving the mage plenty of time to fire some spells. Instead, our parties use some telepathic tactic to immediately identify the critical opponent (the mage) and in perfect unison target him and him alone. No wonder the mages seem weak.

@JT
Yes, it is stupid and useless when they cast a Sanctuary and then attack instantly? Why do you cast Sanctuary then? Cast something more useful like a Hold Person or Cure X wounds spell! Or, if you really want to cast a sanctuary, cast it, retreat, gulp healing potions, and lure the following PCs into a new fresh horde of monsters! (very smart!) Is this THAT hard to code?


I agree Shrikant, if somenody can make a mod like
this I would be eternally gratefull. Is it that hard to code a few pre-buff AND intelligent spell casting?

Grey Magistrate, so you suggest I am to blame because my party always attacks mages and casters, and poor guys do not have a chance to fire their spells before they are ripped apart. :angel: Well I think I am a pretty decent player, even if it makes my games easy sometimes. Mages should be aware that they will be targeted first and thus take counter-measures IMHO.

Even the first time through the game, the spell casters are easy to spot. The guy in the back, wearing just robes, waving his hands, chanting.

Yeah, everybody target him first.

In my HoF experience, you don't even have to target the mages first. They like to wade right into combat. They waste their turns on crappy buff spells (Aid). They don't cast really dangerous spells often (or maybe I don't notice it because my whole party has spell resistance and all saves 30+). Heck, I would be happy once in a while they would cast Mass Haste or M.Sword.

Yeah. Now if the enemy AI too worked in a similar manner without checking for class! Checking for highest class to see whom to attack first is cheesy. Something like:
If (Armor == NULL // Armor == Light) Primary Target.
Then I would have to keep the Sorcerers safe behind Stoneskins and Invisibility. As it is I just have to send in the sheild first and all target him to the exclusion of everyone else.

The problem is that their Mages' first spell is a buff. Now if their first spell were to be offensive, a Fireball or even a Web, our pary would be in deeper trouble. Also stop casting stupid buffs.
Mages should cast Mirror Image, Stoneskin, Improved Invisibility and then Morkadein's Sword or Melf's Minute Meteors. Casting a Mage Armor followed by Protection from Arrows and then wading into melee is pretty stupid.

What is worse, they technically can cast uber spells like Disintegrate in case of Saablic's apprentices, but they NEVER do cast it, waste a few rounds trying to cast stupid buffs and then they die. :p

In IWD, have you ever attacked Orrick? He does not have serious Triggers or Contingencies, but he does not sway his hand, he casts Disintegrate and FoDs alot to kill bad-save low level PCs easily and permanently. :cry: In IWD2, do not attack him, he casts Orrick's Soul Eater!!!

Ahh Malavon in IWD, now that was an excellent hard fight, starts pre-buffed and with summons, uses tactis like web+cloudkill, dimension door away, FtS and FoD for quick kills and reloads, Malavon's rage when surrounded! That was a WORTHY battle! :thumb: I didN't attack him in IWD2 though, is he tougher or smarter? Just curious!

I agree with Grey Magistrate. Everyone here is probably an IE veteran and has fairly solid combat tactics. And if you've played IWD2 (or any of the other IE games), you know where most of the enemy mages and monsters will appear and have tactics for dealing with them.

I think that you have to look back to how difficult (or not) the game was when you first played it. I tend to think that the game designers were probably trying to adjust the quality of the enemies to the average players. They wouldn't want to design mages that were so tough that players got frustrated and quit the game.


Would it be nice to have some sort of a mod that toughened up the scripts of the various enemy mages (and enemies in general)? Yes, it would.

Heck, it would probably be great if there was a mod that made enemies smarter at higher game difficulties.


Regardless, you can't design a game only for the veteran players. You've got to design it for the average players.