View Full Version : dialog box answers (bad)


sarevok66
Thu, 9th Aug '07, 9:07am
hi, im starting a solo on id2, i had only played the 1st opus (with HoW which was a real shame) but that was years ago

at the start of the game i was given some terrible choice of answers in the dialog box like "ho poor thing, goblins overrun your peopple" "what happened to your arm its in a bad shape"

dont they at least offer you some nasty replies if your chara is of evil alignment? you know just like in bg2 "what do i care" "whats in it for me" or "how about i run the tip of my blade through your innards"

so tell me will i have to endure those terrible goody 2 shoes type of answers during the whole game or is it just at the start?

Caradhras
Thu, 9th Aug '07, 9:47am
Well, it's not that good but still it doesn't get worse than that. The game itself is very linear. It depends on your class(es) and race. I like evil clerics, they get some nice dialogue options.

Try to be as nasty as you can, you will be rewarded (sometimes). But bear in mind that the story is devised for good aligned characters or money grabbing mercs.

sarevok66
Thu, 9th Aug '07, 11:17am
I like evil clerics, they get some nice dialogue options. you mean some badass lines are exclusively for evil clerics and wont display for, say, a chaotic evil fighter? whyd they do that for, it's absurd!

oh yeah one more thing, are there some npcs i shouldnt kill or else itd screw up the entire game?

kmonster
Thu, 9th Aug '07, 1:22pm
In aspects of killing the game is fairer than previous IE games. If you kill a game-critical character you immediately get your game over screen, so no realizing that you screwed your game 6 hours ago.
But be also careful about making game critical characters hostile, if you kill someone inside the trade depot in Targos for example, Oswald will also get hostile and attack you when you get out into his range, making it impossible to proceed to the next chapter.

Dialogue choices are actually better than in BG2, but also more stat-dependent.
Wise answers require wis, smart answers int, diplomatic answers require diplomacy, intimidating options require intimidating skill, bluffing options bluffing skill,...

sarevok66
Thu, 9th Aug '07, 2:50pm
alright thanx

[ August 09, 2007, 15:06: Message edited by: sarevok66 ]

Caradhras
Thu, 9th Aug '07, 6:11pm
you mean some badass lines are exclusively for evil clerics and wont display for, say, a chaotic evil fighter? whyd they do that for, it's absurd! It's not so absurd if you consider that evil clerics are devoted to the service of an evil supernatural entity which grants its servants powers. For starters calling upon the name of an evil deity is a lot of fun. You may consider taking advantage of the flexibility of the multiclassing system to start as a rogue (for plenty of skillpoints so you'll have enough points to waste on dialogue skills if you care about them) and add at least one cleric level (evil deity preferably) before proceeding with fighter levels (humans, half elves get any class as their favourite, otherwise play a dwarf since the favourite class is fighter).

I've noticed that dark elves get some specific lines I don't recall if they are particularly "evil" though.

sarevok66
Thu, 9th Aug '07, 7:57pm
alright but soloing with a priest just for the sake of getting some better lines i tell you i dont see it happening; in fact im currently pondering if a solo fighter is the way to go since theres no berserker kit, seems like a lot of reloads ahead...

Drider
Thu, 9th Aug '07, 8:45pm
for soloing purposes I do believe that you would do better by doing it with a mage or cleric or a monk...

(altough pure monk at the begining should prove difficult =\ )

kmonster
Thu, 9th Aug '07, 9:41pm
Soloing a pure fighter will be very difficult. The easiest classes for soloing are cleric or sorcerer.

sarevok66
Thu, 9th Aug '07, 11:21pm
well ive been browsing around some of the walkthroughs out there and from waht i understand soloing with a pure fighter should be doable, providing i complete the 1st opus and gather throughout most of hte powerful random items granting protection from magic and improving saves agaisnt spells, stun etc.. (thus for that purpose i shouldn't install HoW since it removes most of these enhanced equipment)

Larzs
Fri, 10th Aug '07, 12:03am
HoW....Heart of Winter...huh, sure this is the right place? Also take note that IWD and IWDII are more geared towards Multiplayer play then BG and BGII were. Which is why there is so much more for dialog, back stories and such.

kmonster
Fri, 10th Aug '07, 11:23am
Any race/class combination is soloable in IWD2, but be prepared that it won't be as easy as in IWD1, BG or BG2.
Enemy hordes are much bigger and smarter, you can't just roll until you get a character with near perfect stats, you won't find equipment or potions which set a dumped stat to a certain high value, because of the dynamic XP calculation you won't get 6 times the XP you'd get in a party.
The strongest solo fighter you can create is imho a deep gnome with stats 16-20-18-3-16-1.

Caradhras
Fri, 10th Aug '07, 12:11pm
The first time I played this game I soloed with a half elf rogue based on a PnP character (Rogue/Cleric of Tempus/Barbarian). I eventually got stuck in the Citadel (the thralls were a pain eventhough he was level 24 by that point). I wasn't powergaming and I must say a Drow or a Deep Gnome would have fared better. Still I missed that first solo (made a few mistakes like taking Improved Initiative).

My second solo ended before that, I played a character with just one level of ranger and the rest as sorcerer... Way too powerful and I was bored when I completed the Wandering Village quest.

I soloed a Druid to the Ice Temple but it just couldn't compare to the sorcerer although there is something to be said about a druid with one monk level.

I tried two other solos Drow mage and a Paladin/Monk/Cleric but didn't even complete the Horde Fortress with them.

My last attempt was with a Drow pure class Bard. I thought it would be harder, but keeping a spellcaster class pure actually makes it more powerful (especially a class which doesn't rely on scrolls for spellcasting).

IWD2 allows you to multiclass rather freely so for a solo adding one level of cleric is not such a waste (especially if you're playing a specialist mage and want to be able to write every spells).

If what you're looking for is dialogue options then I'd suggest taking at least one level of cleric (or paladin if you're not evil but that doesn't seem to be the point here) and one level of bard (since bard gives all the dialogue skills with a regular intelligence stat it should be fine or starting as a rogue as I said earlier).

Some dialogue options can only be triggered with characters with diplomacy or intimidate of at least 10 (if you are playing a Sorcerer just a few ranks will be enough since you're going to boost your CHA anyway).

Personally I'd rather solo a Barbarian instead of a Fighter. You don't lose that much and when soloing Barbarian Rage, hitpoints and abilities are going to mean a lot.

sarevok66
Fri, 10th Aug '07, 12:55pm
The strongest solo fighter you can create is imho a deep gnome with stats 16-20-18-3-16-1.

16 in strenght thats awful stats it ll give you terrible thac0, poor damage and open lock etc, i started bg1 (solo fighter kitted to berserker in bg2) with 18/00 i use to chop down and slice my foes in one blow with a simple 2_handed sword, once you ve tasted that kind of raw power you cant start any lower; and towards the end of TOB i had like 24 but by the time i had lost interest

dex isnt so important, it just gives a slight AC decrease and saves vs projectiles, so theres no real point in having 20 i think

and 3 in INT? you meant wisdom i guess


Personally I'd rather solo a Barbarian instead of a Fighter. You don't lose that much and when soloing Barbarian Rage, hitpoints and abilities are going to mean a lot. does barbarian rage confer the same kind of protections as the berserk ability in BG2? because thats exactly what im looking for

anyway i dont enjoy the non-human races available, its a real pity you cant play ogres (upgradable to a soul-eater now that would be something)

i dont like priest either, blunt weaponry is no fun, and when i had them in a multi-character party they had very limited purpose like healing and removing ailments, ressurection etc.. boring..

Drider
Fri, 10th Aug '07, 1:24pm
Speaking about the cleric....

I think that only happens when you're on the earlier levels!

after a while you get access to really nice spells, like flame strike,death touch (don't recall the exact name), fire storm,destruction,sol's searing orb,animate dead,etc!

I'm actually having fun with clerics!
and the spell Heal simply rocks! having a character instantly healed is really something!

kmonster
Fri, 10th Aug '07, 4:12pm
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The strongest solo fighter you can create is imho a deep gnome with stats 16-20-18-3-16-1.
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16 in strenght thats awful stats it ll give you terrible thac0, poor damage and open lock etc, i started bg1 (solo fighter kitted to berserker in bg2) with 18/00 i use to chop down and slice my foes in one blow with a simple 2_handed sword, once you ve tasted that kind of raw power you cant start any lower; and towards the end of TOB i had like 24 but by the time i had lost interest

dex isnt so important, it just gives a slight AC decrease and saves vs projectiles, so theres no real point in having 20 i think

and 3 in INT? you meant wisdom i guess
You're thinking in 2e terms. IWD2 uses 3e rules, which are totally different from the 2e rules used in BG2 and the other IE games. I recommend reading the manual before starting the game.
The difference between 16 and 18 strength in 3e is only +1 to hit and damage, not enough to outweight the deep gnome racial bonusses.
AC increase (in 3e higher is always better unlike in 2e) is important, dex also effects ranged attack bonus, reflex saves and there are also useful feats you can only take with at least 13 dexterity.
I'm serious with 3 int, int only affects the skill points you get and with 3 you get as many as with 11. Wis affects will saves, the saves you have to make in order to avoid being held/confused/charmed which you can't afford in a solo game.
does barbarian rage confer the same kind of protections as the berserk ability in BG2? because thats exactly what im looking for

anyway i dont enjoy the non-human races available, its a real pity you cant play ogres (upgradable to a soul-eater now that would be something)

i dont like priest either, blunt weaponry is no fun, and when i had them in a multi-character party they had very limited purpose like healing and removing ailments, ressurection etc.. boring.. I once again recommend reading the manual. Barbarian rage only grants a bonus strength, con and to will saves.
Priests can use any kind of weapon they want in IWD2, battleguards of Tempus even start with axe focus. Unlike in BG2 they gain extra attacks per round nearly as fast as fighters, at level 22 the maximum number of base attacks per round (4) is reached. And since they get lots of buff spells like champion's strength and holy power they do actually more damage than fighters.

Caradhras
Fri, 10th Aug '07, 5:54pm
IWD2 has very little in common with BG. The Barbarian Rage won't grant you uber immunities but if you're dead set against a cleric try a pure class Drow or Deep Gnome Barbarian. Both races get spell resistance (which is what you may be looking for). The Deep Gnome starts with a lower STR but with a +4 bonus to AC (which is really not shabby). A female Drow Cleric/Barbarian could be nice too.

I concur with Kmonster. Read the manual or check the ingame information about classes (and the info in SP's IWD2 section). You'll benefit a lot from reading this stuff.

For instance you get a +1 bonus for every 2 points above 10 (or -1 for points below 10). STR will improve or lower your hit to hit attacks and your damage (2 handed weapons multiply the STR modifier by 1.5 instead of 1). Dex improves your ranged attacks and your AC (contrary to BG heavy armours limit the maximum bonus you can get from your DEX which makes a lot of sense so either you pick a very high DEX and wear light or no armour or you wear a very heavy armour and don't put many points in DEX). It works the same with CON, every 2 points above 10 gives you 1 extra hitpoint.

The thing you have to remember is that while adding some levels from other classes may look like a good idea, in the end most classes are way more powerful when they are kept pure (just one level from another class can be an extreme boost depending on the classes but keeping both classes even is a very bad idea since it will lower the efficiency of both classes).

Forget what you know about 2E. IWD2 is quite different: clerics can wield swords and rogues are not utterly useless in a fight.

sarevok66
Sat, 11th Aug '07, 10:20am
all right well i guess i got confused regarding the core rules

maybe ill try out the evil clerics, but hey ive never been a big fan of the FR pantheon i rather even have my character be a thrall of demogorgon or something

anyway thanx for your time

Caradhras
Sat, 11th Aug '07, 11:34am
Check this for info on clerics: http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/IWD2/clerics.php
If you really don't care for them try a Sorcerer. I never liked sorcerers in BG2 but I have to say that they are much more useful than regular mages in IWD2, they don't need scrolls (so you don't end up with a character who can't cast a certain spell because you haven't found the scroll you need yet) and they can spam offensive spells (due to the hack and slash nature of IWD2 it has its uses).

Just try different classes and don't be afraid to start over several games while you're still in Targos. It's better to take your time and find the right soloing character design you want to play rather than being stuck with a less effective character build after completing half the game.

sarevok66
Sat, 11th Aug '07, 3:44pm
yeah well it seems like theres been alot of changes in 3e but one thing seems to be the same is that fighters are always the ones left behind

in bg when going over level 20 it just came down to getting 3 more hitpoints and a greater whirlwind attack while hte other classes were granted nice improvments;
and now clerics may weild slicing weapons and get as many hits per round as fighters, not to mention the latter cannot be kitted anymore, honestly when i consider all these drawbacks i dont even feel like starting a new game

kmonster
Sat, 11th Aug '07, 7:50pm
Keep in mind that the game is designed for playing a party of 6 without cheating, not for soloing.
If you have a balanced party of 5 and decide whom you add as the 6th character the gap between cleric and fighter isn't that big anymore.
Since you'll only reach level 16-17 it doesn't matter that the number of base attacks per round is capped at 4 which fighters reach at level 16. A cleric will never reach level 22 which is neccessary for getting the 4th attack.
While in a solo game a fighter can't buff up himself with spells like bull's strength or PfE like the cleric, in a party of 6 there'll be someone to buff him up with those spells.
In a normal party game the fighter is considerably better for tanking and dealing out direct damage for the first (the more difficult) half of the game, at least until level 8, and afterwards you need micromanagement to cast the self-buffs like holy power on the cleric.

[ August 11, 2007, 20:12: Message edited by: kmonster ]

Larzs
Sat, 11th Aug '07, 11:58pm
Technically if they followed PnP 3rd edition rules BaB for any character goes up by 1 every even level and then all saves by 1 on odd levels(or vice versa) and never get more attacks then what there BaB would give up to Lvl 20. I don't really know how it works in IWD II but they have messed stuff like this up before so who knows.

kmonster
Sun, 12th Aug '07, 12:41am
You are confusing some things about PnP BAB and the save bonusses, it's exactly like implemented in IWD2. The only difference is that you still can get extra base attacks per round in IWD2 after level 20 (but only if you don't have 4 yet).
In a "normal" game this doesn't matter since you won't be able to reach level 20 anyway.

sarevok66
Sun, 12th Aug '07, 1:20am
If you have a balanced party of 5 and decide whom you add as the 6th character the gap between cleric and fighter isn't that big anymore.
Since you'll only reach level 16-17 it doesn't matter that the number of base attacks per round is capped at 4 which fighters reach at level 16. A cleric will never reach level 22 which is neccessary for getting the 4th attack. when you re soloing you level up very quick,for instance in bg my character started TOB at lvl 40
for what i can tell from your information as you ve put it the classes appear to be even more unblanced with 3e, clerics seem to be overpowered just like mages before them, while fighters lag once again, even more so without kits

kmonster
Sun, 12th Aug '07, 3:07am
In IWD2 your solo character won't level that fast as in BG2 because of the dynamic XP calculation. If your average party level is much higher than the challenge rating of the monster you face you won't get a single XP for killing it for example.
IWD2 is far more a party game than BG2, there are so many skills in the game a solo character can't handle.
IWD2 isn't that unbalanced as BG2 (no timestop + shapeshift mindflayer or mislead for example), but clerics and especially sorcerers are still far stronger than fighters at high levels.

If you want to solo a pure warrior without spellcasting you can do it. It just won't be as easy as in BG2.
Most damaging is a half-orc barbarian with 1 int and cha, good feats early on are dash,dodge,power attack, cleave, I'd only raise strength at level ups.
A deep gnome with similar stats would do less damage but have an easier time because of the defensive racial bonusses.
Drow also get MR, humans get an extra feat and extra skillpoints, shield dwarves aren't bad either.
A disadvantadge of such a low-int, low-cha barbarian is that you won't be able to get many good talking options in the dialogue-heavy prologue, even if you put all skill points into the intimidate skill it will take a long time until (cha penalty !) it is high enough and there will only be few intimidating dialogue options left then, diplomacy or bluff willl never be high enough to matter. Pumping up int-based skills doesn't make sense either, putting those points into stealth might help you more.

Personally I recommend playing a party of 6 the first time, the game was designed for it and I really liked having a party of six characters of whom everyone had a way of contributing something to the party the others couldn't do that good. Everyone did shine in his own way.

Caradhras
Sun, 12th Aug '07, 11:54am
Good advice from Kmonster. I you really want to solo, start as a Rogue (they get extra skillpoints that way) take two rogue levels (for evasion which helps a lot when soloing) and the rest as fighter or barbarian. There are no kits in IWD2 but multiclassing can make up for this.

Barbarians are better versus enemy rogues but fighters get an incredible amount of feats (more than any other class and weapon specialization becomes possible at level 4).

If you play a barbarian you might want to keep him as pure as possible. If you want a fighter feel free to multiclass.

When soloing spells that stun or hold you often mean you'll have to reload. So don't dump WIS unless you have a way to increase your saves (for instance will for hold person and reflex for chromatic orb).

If you want a pure Fighter or Barbarian play a Drow (they get MR without losing STR and the extra ability points will help getting a high STR and CON without having to dump other stats).

Drow and Deep Gnomes's magic resistance gets better as they level up so don't expect a first level character to resist magic so often.

If you want a multiclassed fighter take a human, a dwarf or a half elf. Dwarves can start with a very high CON (always good when soloing), humans get more skillpoints and an extra feat (nice), half elves only get some minor bonuses but the resistance to sleep might save your character's hide and make it a bit easier at the beginning.

A multiclassed fighter starting as a Rogue (2 levels for evasion a very useful feat) with a Barbarian level (for Rage) and perhaps one level of ranger (if you went for a high DEX build and want to take advantage of free ambidexterity and dual wielding while wearing light armours) wouldn't be a waste for a fighter.

Dash can be useful but I'd pick Dodge and Luck of Heroes first. Then I'd take the feats that boost the will saves. After that useful feats include power attack, rapid shot and expertise (a good reason not to dump INT although expertise doesn't stack with power attack). When soloing having someone casting hold person or chromatic orb on your only character almost always mean game over if your character fails his save.

[ August 12, 2007, 12:08: Message edited by: Caradhras ]

kmonster
Sun, 12th Aug '07, 3:16pm
Heroic inspiration is also a great feat to take. If you have a race with magic resistance you don't need save bonusses that much since MR will block nearly spells before you have to make the save.

Caradhras
Mon, 13th Aug '07, 10:41am
At higher levels yes. At lower levels it's another matter. A drow low on will saves will probably get held a few times before completing the horde fortress.

Being unlucky is one thing, reloading because your character failed a save and got beaten to death by two goblins and an orc is another.

Since heroic inspiration boost the saves as well it's a good idea to pick it. What I don't like about this feat though is that you have to be in pretty bad shape for it to work.

kmonster
Mon, 13th Aug '07, 1:24pm
Racial spell resistance works the following way:
If your deep gnome or drow has the same level as the caster he has 50 percent chance to be unaffected. The chance increases by 5 percent with each additional level difference (and each point of sr you get from other sources).

Even in a party game enemy casters are lower level than your charcter, a solo character will level even faster. Will saves come into play when the MR fails an additional raise by 1 will raise the save chances by only 5 percent only in this case.
76.2 instead of 75 percent (later rather 100 instead of 100) chance to succeed when targeted with a hold spell early isn't as useful as physical stats or combat-enhhancing feats.

Caradhras
Mon, 13th Aug '07, 9:07pm
I get your point but the 5% can make a huge difference between reloading and not reloading. I soloed many times the beginning of the game and my drows often ended up held at the horde fortress which was a real pain. I hate reloading a game because my character wasn't lucky on one roll. The saves increasing feats add up and if you invest a few feats in them you will see the difference. It's especially true for fighters who can safely spare a few feats to increase their chances.

Orc shamans and goblin sorcerers seem to love casting hold person when you make your way to the Shaengarne Bridge. When you have an entire party you can always have one or two shooters take the casters out but when soloing shifting to ranged attacks make you vulnerable in melee (if you're not playing a spellcaster you can't use spells to that effect). Rushing toward the spellcasters is not always possible either.

Anyway if you could skip these feats when soloing a drow or a deep gnome (and get ready for a few reloads along the way) with a human (or any race without MR) taking feats that boost will and reflex saves (mainly) is certainly not such a bad move.

kmonster
Mon, 13th Aug '07, 11:48pm
5 percent can make a difference, but not only for hold spells. If you lower dex by 2 for wis or take the "iron will" instead of the "dodge" feat for example your AC will be lower and enemies will get 5 percent extra hit chance with each physical attack, and they will attack your solo character very often.
Your AC is probably checked more than 100 times as often as your will save value.

+1 will save bonus usually means 5 percent higher save chance vs hold person for a character without SR, for 19 of 20 hold spells it doesn't matter if you got the bonus or not.
With MR the bonus is only about 5 percent of 30 (or even less) percent, so not even 1 of 60 spells is affected by the bonus.

Getting caught by a "hold" spell and watching the enemies hack at your helpless character is more painful, but the danger is much higher that you'll have to reload because your character got hit too often. Getting a good defense or being able to kill enemies fast should have priority.

JT
Tue, 14th Aug '07, 5:35am
Some good advice there from kmonster. If anything, he is not praising MR strongly enough. You will gain levels very quickly very early when soloing. It will easily stop 80% of spells even before saves are considered. From a powergaming perspective, solo drow/DG is clearly better than any of the other races.


Some more general solo advice:
Summons are king (true regardless of party size). Any primary caster can grind his way through the game solo by spending most of his spell slots on summons, and resting whenever they run low. It will be boring though.
Blasting spells will be harder to use solo unless you have some summons. Web alone probably isn't enough.
Ranged weapons -- there are good ones, but this isn't BG. Solo you would definitely need summons.
Only remaining choice: melee. Fighter, rogue, multiclass, etc. Best choice is probably cleric since he can heal and buff himself. Regardless of class, DG is the best choice, for the AC boost.

Caradhras
Tue, 14th Aug '07, 12:00pm
If you lower dex by 2 for wis or take the "iron will" instead of the "dodge" feat for example your AC will be lower and enemies will get 5 percent extra hit chance with each physical attack, and they will attack your solo character very often.
Your AC is probably checked more than 100 times as often as your will save value.I never said you shouldn't take dodge. If you read my first post on this page you would have noticed that I wrote "I'd pick Dodge and Luck of Heroes first." I never said that it was wise to dump DEX for WIS. I just made a point that increasing your chances to avoid these effects by taking feats like luck of heroes or iron will isn't a bad idea when you solo.

Like I said, I've played enough solo games to know what I'm talking about. Low level MR won't protect your character that much (although it's very good at higher levels).

If you don't believe me try a Drow or Deep Gnome solo with dumped WIS (since according to your logic Will saves are not useful for races with MR) and see how well MR works before you get to level 10.

What about daytime blindness? I guess powergamers try and pick up fights indoors or at night? ;)

Summons are king (true regardless of party size). Any primary caster can grind his way through the game solo by spending most of his spell slots on summons, and resting whenever they run low. It will be boring though. Exactly and that's why I don't like HoF. I hate when summons do all the work. I've soloed a Sorcerer and there are many spells that can be used. I remember getting Wail of the Banshee in the Ice Temple. When soloing you don't care or mind about micromanaging.

kmonster
Tue, 14th Aug '07, 3:26pm
I never said you shouldn't take dodge. If you read my first post on this page you would have noticed that I wrote "I'd pick Dodge and Luck of Heroes first." I never said that it was wise to dump DEX for WIS. I just made a point that increasing your chances to avoid these effects by taking feats like luck of heroes or iron will isn't a bad idea when you solo. I never said you said you shouldn't take dodge or that you said it was wise to dump DEX for WIS. I just gave an "example" for the priority of AC or damage output over saving throw boosts.

Like I said, I've played enough solo games to know what I'm talking about. Low level MR won't protect your character that much (although it's very good at higher levels).
If you don't believe me try a Drow or Deep Gnome solo with dumped WIS (since according to your logic Will saves are not useful for races with MR) and see how well MR works before you get to level 10. According to my "logic" will saves are less useful than offensive or defensive combat boosts, "not useful for races with MR" cannot be concluded. If you read my 3rd post you'd have seen that I even recommended 16 wis for a solo deep gnome fighter.

Caradhras
Tue, 14th Aug '07, 6:01pm
I agree about the priority of AC (meaning taking the Dodge feat at character creation) but what do you have in mind when you refer to "damage output"?

Is it Power Attack and Cleave? I'm not convinced of its efficiency at lower levels and I wouldn't take it right at the beginning when soloing.

IMHO Expertise is a better choice especially for a spellcaster since turning it on while spellcasting doesn't hinder the character's efficiency.

I for one would only take Power Attack to get Cleave as soon as possible (which is always a good idea for a solo) or Expertise for a spellcaster. But to get the most of these feats it's best to have a base attack of at least 5 so I do believe it can be delayed.

Rapid Shot is better with a high DEX and when soloing ranged attacks can only be used to soften the opposition before melee or to take out enemy spellcasters from afar. Once again at lower levels the efficiency of this feat is questionable (just like Two Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity, it's always nice to double your attacks but there's no point in doing so if you can't hit anything because of the penalty).

Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization are good (especially the second) provided you know what weapon you are going to specialize in. Besides it is not crucial since the second rank can only be taken at level 4.

Bottom line IMHO a fighter will have far enough feats to get all the good feats even if Iron Will or Luck of Heroes are taken early on and since Will saves are always the lowest for a fighter I don't see it as such a waste.

If you read my 3rd post you'd have seen that I even recommended 16 wis for a solo deep gnome fighter.I had noticed, I was just giving an "example" ;) . No offence but that's just too much stat dumping (CHA and INT) for me. I'd rather have a character with 10 WIS and Iron Will and maybe even waste one of my fighter's feats on Discipline (if I can't take Luck of Heroes or Bullheaded instead) in order to have 6 points to spare in CHA or INT but that's a matter of taste.

If I had to choose between two suits of armour, one that is very good but which looked crap on my screen and another one which would be average but would look nice I'd pick the second one and the same goes for stats. I may like seeing nice uber stats straight 18s and 20s but I couldn't stand a 1 CHA or 3 INT to get them.

kmonster
Tue, 14th Aug '07, 8:30pm
Feats that increase damage output: Cleave, heroic inspiration, weapon focus, rapid shot, improved critical ...

Cleave should shine at low levels, when you have only one attack per round and the enemies have few enough HP to die after one hit this feat can nearly double your number of attacks.
Rapid shot isn't that great at low levels, but not because you get hit problems (you don't) but because it doesn't work with crossbows. The heavy crossbow you get early on does so much damage that you need a third attack per round (BAB 6 + rapid shot) to do considerably more damage.
2-weapon fighting can be very effective at very low levels, but at higher levels it's far inferior to 2-handed weapons since when the BAB grows you only get additional main hand attacks which could cause far more damage with 2-handed weapons. Not worth taking feats for.

Saving throw boosters don't hurt, but there are some feats I'd definitely take first with a barbarian or fighter:
Power attack, cleave, dash, dodge, heroic inspiration, rapid shot, improved critical, weapon focus: axe, ...

Caradhras
Wed, 15th Aug '07, 11:21am
Improved Critical is a must have feat but it can't be taken early in the game.

Heroic Inspiration is not available to straight fighters (only to Bards, Barbarians and Paladins) it is good because it enhances defense and offense (not to mention the save bonus) but I'd rather take a permanent bonus (especially if you're playing a character who is avoiding blows at all costs like a spellcaster with expertise, mirror image and stoneskin).

Cleave is really good if you have a two hander (so you can actually get that extra bonus attack) and Great Cleave is the kind of feat that is only useful for solo fighters (to dispatch hordes of low level creatures, it's the fighter's death spell).

Rapid Shot is not just for bows! Used with thrown weapons it allows to take advantage of the hefty STR bonus that a fighter may have (it works with darts, slings, throwing hammers, axes and daggers). Slings are just great when they are used that way. Depending on the STR bonus it can be as good as a crossbow (if not better since the STR bonus is not die dependent and you'll get more attacks) and it allows the fighter to use a shield as well.

Dirty Fighting is a minor but useful feat that can be taken as well to make sure that a critical hit will cripple a foe.

It's a matter of taste and gameplay (I like Paladins more than Barbarians) and for a Fighter I'd take: Dodge, Luck of Heroes (if human, Iron Will if non human), Dash (soloers need that!), Expertise (if INT is high enough, it's a nice feeling when your character evades all hits but natural 20s), Iron Will (if human), Rapid Shot, Power Attack, Cleave, etc.

[ August 15, 2007, 11:31: Message edited by: Caradhras ]