"We have also made the decision to cut the character kits and go with 3E multiclassing. This will make Q.A.'s job much easier and will keep the game way more consistent with our 3E goals."

Doug Avery said that with his latest update... so that mean there are no kits??

wow ... that's a huge change! There goes all our hopes & dreams for Votaries, Lanchestez & Giant Killers!

Ragusa ... maybe we should all redo our posts on your thread with 3E class ideas ...

I agree this is a big change. I think they are really striping the game. 3E multi-classing is great with the 3E system, but without feats and skills to customize our PC multi-classing has less of an impact. Kits, though I'm not a big fan of them, did provide a chance to add some personal touches to PCs. Not all fighters where the same.

With no feats/skills and no kits what is IWD2 offering as far as characters that we didn't see in the first BG game?

If this info is true I think the game just fell a bit in my opinion.

EDIT:
It is definite NO MORE KITS IN IWD-2

03.13.02
Development Update
Over the course of the past few weeks, we've really been concentrating on getting the interface completed. Artist Brian Menze is still working on the spell icons and they look fantastic, I can't wait to show them off. We are shrinking the character portraits down and putting them along the top of the bottom panel with their health bars underneath them. You will be able to hide either of the two panels of the interface, the bottom portion with the text window and command buttons or the top portion with the character portraits. That is just the main interface. We have also made the decision to cut the character kits and go with 3E multiclassing. This will make Q.A.'s job much easier and will keep the game way more consistent with our 3E goals.

On the design front, Rob Holloway and John Deiley are almost completely done with their areas. All of the other designers are still polishing up theirs and concentrating on bug fixing. We've also gotten a lot of feedback from Q.A. and have implemented a number of their suggestions for the areas.

Programming is where we have allocated most of our resources to implement all of the 3E changes we're putting in.

On the production side we are answering interview questions from many sources and working closely with our marketing department on the box and going over the possibility of a collector's edition. Oz (Kevin Osburn) is, as usual, still beating on the buglist and working with Q.A. to get all of the outstanding issues dealt with.

That's about it for this update. I'll keep you guys posted on what is happening periodically. I'll also be on the message boards to answer questions there.

Doug Avery
Black Isle Studios
Associate Producer - Icewind Dale II
taken from: http://icewind2.blackisle.com/index.html


A pit, I have to say - especially since the kits resembled presige classes ... however, 3e is extremely flexible and versatile - you can taylor your chars the way you want them ... hmm, at least IWD-2 will ofer something completely new on the old infinity engine ... I'm undecisive if I like it or not ...

A topic on the BIS boards about it: http://feedback.blackisle.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29784

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited March 14, 2002).]

Yea, a very big change indeed.
I was really looking forward to some of them too. Oh well, im sure it will still be fine, i just hope they dont start taking more stuff out...

Ragusa, as I said above will IWD2 have the 'stand' 3E class features. I don't think so. Correct me if I'm worng but they aren't have feats and skills. So with no kits the range of character option is down to 11. 3E multi-classing helps a little but not much.

I am opinion saying this will be most like 3E is total spin. We aren't gain anything we are losing a big part of the character creation process. If they want a 3E game fine add feats and skills like NWN if not leave in the 2E kits and push the release date bad a month or so.

What are we really geting now, that we did't have in HoW? Are they taking out the additional race options too?

I was really looking forward to some of the kits. Particularly the Battleguard of Tempus. Oh Well, I will still buy the game when it comes out. It would rule if the developers could take the existing kits and make them into Prestige Classes and include them in the game.

Why should they do that when they can put them in an expansion and have you pay more money for it. :)

And I was sick and tired of so called "prestige".
Plus I was sick and tired of questions in SoA forum about dual classing and of type "which kit is the best, which is useless, etc".

Whoever decided to remove Kits from IWD2 has my blessing.

I agree. The kits were an interesting feature in BG2, but most of the time they only served as a tool for powergaming exploitation.

Oh, I might be making a sweeping generalization. I apologize in advance to all of those who played a kensai/mage because they enjoyed the nuances of roleplaying a brilliant master of weapons who suddenly decides to learn magic at the highlight of his fighting career.

Okay, maybe that was uncalled for. If you liked the kits, just equip and roleplay your character(s) in a similar manner.

Anyway, I don't see how anyone could be disappointed with 3E multiclassing, if they are in fact following the rules. You have much more control over your character's professional development, and, for those of you who might be leaning in this direction, there are many more possibilities for absurdly powerful characters (sorcerer/monk, anyone?)

I'll write a more sustantial treatise on the benefits of 3E multiclassing later. That's a promise.

M


[This message has been edited by Meester M (edited March 16, 2002).]

It's all for good. Feats are included and many of the kit abilities will be implemented via feats.

What could be better? Make your own kit :)

There are some more good news:

Good News #1:
Even paladins and monks - depending on order - will be able to multiclass: Paladin and monk orders:
Paladins of Ilmater (LG): May multiclass freely to cleric and back.
Paladins of Helm (LG): May multiclass freely to fighter and back.
Paladins of Mystra (LG): May multiclass freely to wizard and back.

Broken Ones (LG): May multiclass freely to cleric and back.
Old Order (LN): May multiclass freely to fighter and back.
Dark Moon (LE): May multiclass freely to sorcerer and back.from: http://feedback.blackisle.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29811

Good news #2:
All classes will be open to all races - TIME FOR THE HALFLING PALADINS!

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited March 17, 2002).]

Meester, but that's the big question, will IWD2 use feats and skills? I maybe wrong and if go please correct me but I don't think so. If they do then I'm all for it. If not then I think we are going backwards not making progress.

The kits are out but it looks like feats are in. Check out Dave Maldonado's latest statement here: Icewind Dale II designer Diaries 3 (http://rpgvault.ign.com/features/den/icewindii03.shtml)

[This message has been edited by Capt. Tripps (edited March 18, 2002).]

I have a quite a few problems with cutting kits. Not only will cutting kits delay the game, but more than likely, skills and feats will need to be accomodated for with what has already been accomplished.
Furthermore, skills and feats would more than likely take MUCH more space than kits, since any class can have almost any feat. This could seriously slow down the game, since many of the feats are combat-oriented, much like this game is.

However, I do realize that removing the kits was sensible, since it was the best of two worlds, customization and power-gaming. Power gamers wont talk about "which kit is best," or a "kensai/mage is the stuff." This allows older gamers to have *some* piece of mind from newer players, and can add a new aspect of gaming that is non-existent in games like Diablo II: Teamwork.

Now, for the customization, the possibilities are endless. A two-handed ninja who is ambidextrous? possible. A spellcasing fighter wearing plate mail? Farfetched, but possible with the right feats. Further, if you wanted to have all your characters to be spellcasters, instead of having them all as mages, you couldeasily start them as whatever you wanted, then add some arcane spellcasting class later than simply making a party of F/M/T characters.

Anyway, I'm rambling on and by now, most people would have stopped reading by now. So, these are just my opinions. If anyone has any thoughts, e-mail me.

Capt. Tripps, thanks for the info. I'm excited that IWD2 is using feats and skills. I think they are much better than kits and 3E is overall better than 2E. Thus I'm not really broken up over losing the kits. Since the result is better than it was before.

I'm guessing that they will implement feats by using "special" icons at the bottom of the screen. Much like the special (iniate) abilities your character gets in BG. This would make the most sence, at least for the abilities that only last for a certin period of times, or only once per day.

I'm really excited about seeing how this turnes out. It's gotta be better than POR, and I need someting to occupy my time until NWN comes out.

[This message has been edited by Llandon (edited April 03, 2002).]

Looking at the development of IWD-2 and the silly moderated discussions silly BIS boards I'm unsure what to think about the whole multiclassing thing. I think that 3e multiclassing gives an incredible flexibility in creating a unique char. But I fear it's the flexibility and nonrestriction that made Kits so interesting - since Kits kinda represented prestige classes. IMO it was a major mistake to decide to kill the kits and make the game all 3e - not to mwention the delay it unavoidably will cause :(

All this talk about taking stuff out, putting stuff in and modifying IWD-2 howeverwhichway... *sigh*

I just hope the game will be worth the wait AND the price tag.

Must have faith!
They wont mess it up...at least i hope not

I can't wait for 3e multiclassing! It seems pretty cool.

[This message has been edited by Rolsuk Fryulee (edited April 18, 2002).]