Well.... I would like to know what other special multi-classes can anyone think of. I created a human druid which I plan to multi into a sorcerer(LV12/XX). The main idea is to have a second spellcaster who can also charm animal, have druid spells and also communicate with people. I am also planning to create a cleric/sorcerer, but not sure yet.

I don't really like to muti class spell casters with another caster class since quite a few of the best spells duration and/or damage is dictated by the caster class level (not character level) though I don't think DC depends on their level (or does it?).

My favorite character ever was a paladin2/sorceress. Her charisma was insanely high and she wound up with the best saving throws and the best DCs for her spells. Went with paladin 2 for the aura of courage.

I played a game with four Fighter 4 / Bard xx characters, and they tore through the game like butter. (OK, the bardic party hasn't beaten Dragon's Eye yet, but I'm not anticipating any difficulties.) Fighter 4 gets you weapon specialization and useful feats like Cleave, and bards get great buffing and charming spells for wreaking havoc. Just focus on strength and charisma, and give your bardic fighter a hefty two-handed weapon. Most other split-bard builds I've seen on these boards have been Bard 11 / something xx, to get the final song - but I prefer to continue on with bard even after level 11 to get the high-level spells.

Granted, jeremiah, a Paladin 2 / Sorcerer xx would be way more powerful. (I played one, and she was nigh-untouchable.) But not near so interesting!

Here's how I built a character:

Level 1: Fighter
Level 2-4: Monk. -awesome WILL saves, improved speed and better unarmored AC. The stunning fist helps out in a pinch as well, and the Hide/Move silently skills as class skills rock for 3 levels.
Level 3 and above: Fighter all the way.

You can still wear armor and ditch the improved speed but the WILL save boost helps a lot. Besides, you only lose 1 pt of BAB with this build.

Sound nice and neat! I like all of them! Yeah! and the monk/fighter was on my mind a while ago, but I wasn't sure how much level to put in for monk, to make it worth it.
Back to all:
Btw, most of the paladin/fighter are leveled up as LV XX/LV 4), this will make a good mage-slayer, but if I were to level up as LV 2/LV XX, to make a good fighter, and of course to wield the holy avenger with better fighting skills, what do you think? Will he be better in fighting then the usual one.Oh yeah! and which class save vs spells better? paladin or rogue?

Paladin has the best class saves of all. Period.

Divine grace is overpowered IMO. They are the only warriors who can laugh off a wizard's spells with impunity, except for a high level monk.

They are only handicapped slightly by REF saves (which isn't much of an issue due to Divine grace. Paladins usually dump all their ability increases in CHA anyway). So just don't drop a fireball on your paladin.

@Shura:
Will the lack of LVs in monk make the stunning blows less likely to hit? Can you let me know what are the starting stats of your monk/fighter?

I think the improvement of the unarmed BAB relies more on the monk levels (not that it won't improve when you take fighter levels but it won't be as good as the monk's).

Hmm. I can't remember exactly but here goes:

Str: 14
Con: 12
Dex: 18
Int: 13
Wis: 12
Cha: 6

I think that is correct. It's not exactly the most powerful build, but you did ask for an interesting multiclass, right?

Feats:Expertise, Focus, Specialisation, Power attack, Cleave: 1. Pump all your ability points into WIS or DEX depending on your preference. (I personally put two into WIS and two in DEX) Your party's sorcerer can help out with Bull's Strength/Cat's Grace and you can take the Toughness feat repeatedly later due to your fighter bonus feats.

As a monk, you have evasion. With Lightning Reflexes, you can charge into battle and have your party's wizard blast the area with a Spirit of Flame fireball spell before moping up the survivors.

Laugh at the enemy wizards as they hurl lightning bolt after lightning bolt at you and laugh even harder when their dominate/charm spells fail. Twiddle your thumbs at their disintegrate and wail of banshee spells due to your high CON save as a fighter-then bash the unholy crap outta them.

You will either want to dual wield or use a two-handed weapon. No sense using a shield as you'll forsake your monk bonuses doing so.

-finally: When using Stunning Fist, either your monk BAB is used or your normal BAB, depending on which is higher. As a fighter, you should have pretty decent BAB so your Stunning Fists will mostly get through.

Oh! That's great! Now that I know the fighter's BAB will also helps, I will not hesitate to play with fighter/monk. Thanks!
Anymore unusual ones out there? Anyone?
Btw, I used to think of creating a fighter/sorcerer character(In a roleplaying sense, it's like someone who handle any surprise, unlike a fighter/wizard who have to prepare the spells for it). But it seems difficult to create one with enough stats to support his dex, con and cha. Any comments?

you can use the infamous min/max technique to give your fighter/sorcerer decent stats. for example :
str 14
con 14
dex 14
int 3
wis 13
cha 18

depends on how you feel about giving your character s**t for brains.

by the way, I really loved soloing with a monk/sorcerer. didn't use any armor or weapon throughout the game.

I prefer to roleplay a little more... Thanks anyway! Btw, the stats of the human fighter/sorcerer I created is:
str:10
dex:16
con:14
int:10
wis:10
cha:16
She will be a small weapon dual-wielder or maybe an archer, after 10 LVs of fighter, then she will go for the sorcerer class. I will most likely evenly rise the dex and cha whenever leveling up.
Any comments?

I don't think any of the monk orders allow freely switching to fighter (just cleric, rogue and sorcerer IIRC) so you had better decide how many levels of monk you want first so you can level up to the right amount before devoting yourself to fighter.

Yup! And that will be like Shura stated,1st LV fighter, next 3 LVs for monk and the rest for fighter. With this, I should have enough bonus from the monk part and also save many lVs for the fighter part(This char may not fight better than a pure fighter, but he will dodge spells better than a pure fighter.

Once my brother wanted something special, so I told him to take a fighter/barbarian/rogue/ranger. Three to four levels in three and more than 4 in just one. It was a killer.

A rogue/fighter/wizard(sorcerer) in solo might be quite interesting.

A solo elven sorceress with 4 fighter levels, specialisation in longsword, power attack and cleave (or expertise) for Mordenkainen's Sword. Wonder if it survives Tenser's too :evil:

A rogue with one barbarian and one ranger level will have free dual-wielding and be faster.

Everyone lightly armoured will get evasion from two rogue or one monk level. Good for a druid, especially a dexterous one.

I have a solo paladin/wizard. Started with 14/10/10/16/14/16. Now it's 15/10/10/20/17/16 without items. Due to severe hardship, I was forced to learn the advantages of this casting combination... but it's quite a cunning one ;) The character requires lots of micromanagement and is more than fragile without protective spells, but once you get him in his full glory, he's a killing machine. It looks like sunfire, several swings, fireball on the mages, several swings, fireball on the archers, several swings, another sunfire and chopping, chopping, chopping. Sometimes with chromatic orbs in the middle.

@chevalier:
So base on your experiences, which fights and resists physical or magical damages better? A paladin/wizard who have protective/offensive spells(stone skin/fire shield and the likes) to cast on him or a pure paladin with high saving throws? I want to create a aasimar paladin/wizard who only attack with sword not words, so the spells that my paladin/wizard memorise will be protective ones or physical enhancing ones. I will most likely go for fighter's feats and the starting stats will most likely be:
str:14
dex:13
con:14
int:14
wis:13
cha:12
When I can rise his stats, I will go for 1st in wis, and the next 2 in str and the rest in int. What do you think? Btw, does your paladin/wizard wears any armour? I am thinking of wearing at least light armour.
Back to all:
Well... Actually, some of the standard multi-classes are interesting too, maybe monk/cleric or fighter/cleric(Talos or Helm or ???) or drow ranger/cleric of Selune or barbarian/druid. So if you created a interesting class, need not be powerful, but can fight physically or magically well enough, pls feel free to share you wisdom here. :)

[ October 27, 2003, 05:04: Message edited by: Skywind ]

by the way, I really loved soloing with a monk/sorcerer. didn't use any armor or weapon throughout the gameOne monk to rule them all,
one monk to find them
one monk to bring them all,
and in the darkness bind them!

Pure monk all the way is also a ass-kicker... :) :p

Wild elf, male, druid5/fighter4/sorcererx
That way i dont get XP penality, have weapon focus:axe weapon, specialization: axe, dodge, ambidexterity(when i get 15dex),...
12/14/10/10/14/16

He's dualwielding axes (for now sword and an axe), and throws axes.

(i'm still just lvl3 thats why i dont have all the feats) ;)

I dont care if he's powerful or not... so far he's doing great.... and he's cool :D


I hate one thing... half-orcs str20 wielding greataxe/sword. :mad: :flaming:
They're incredibly stupid and utterly unnecesary when its not a fight (which is most of the time :heh: ). And they take all the fun, killing baddies too soon!
I prefer killing slowly, doing little damage, hitting fast and surely. And a loooong fight :D

:yot:
I prefer to be armed with a very sharp blade and end my enemy's life swiftly, but after the killing blow, I will keep slashing away, till my foe drop to the ground. This remind myself of Soul Calibur. :)
Btw, I am wondering if anyone created a fighter/cleric of helm/Talos or Drow fighter/cleric of Selune? This character seems to be interesting, but I need some comments. Thanks in advances.

My all-time favourite is Rogue/Barbarian. Something about 60%/40%. As a rogue you get sneak attacks, and higher level rogue-specific feats, and barbarian levels bring you a lot of HP's and speed to outrun your enemies.

That Monk/Wizard sounded cool also. Maybe I'll just finish the game next time with those two, and of course HoF-mode.

Skywind, sorry for not replying. I hadn't noticed your post until now, or forgot to post a reply maybe. I guess it's too late for you now, but just for future reference:

All paladins regardless of level have CHA bonus added to saves. Even level 1 multi-classed paladins.

A paladin has more or less all it needs for its standard role. Just get the wisdom required for paladin casting and work out your methods of using those spells to your greatest possible advantage. You could take 4 fighter levels for weapon specialisation as well.

Multiclassing a paladin is only really a good idea when it comes to strange stats or when you want something special. For straightforward big bashing, a single class pallie is still the best one. Perhaps 4 fighter levels might profit you, but not always (you're lagging behind in paladin powers).

Whenever you want to mix some class with paladin, think if fighter (for enhancing fighting prowess) or cleric (for adding some divine spells - perhaps you take several cleric levels instead of multiple paladin ones) wouldn't actually serve you better. Unless you just have to play a paladin, like yours truly ;)

A paladin/wizard can be made a totally ass-kicking untouchable tank, but bear in mind that a single dispelling arrow puts an end to that. Casting takes some time, too (it's boring sometimes to cast 10 spells before a battle), and doesn't last forever. What makes a paladin/wizard strong, is that he has both the power to kick ass and to fry ass. Remember the screenshot of a week in which a surprisingly warrior-looking guy delivered 40 damage each to four dragons in one round? That was my paladin/wizard. Evocation focus to the max, spirit of flame, spell penetration and the like. When I last played, I scored 60+. You can take out whole batallions of archers or casters with one fireball, then dispose of the boss' melee minions with a single sunfire and your spell-based immunities and buffs still last for long enough to make the boss scream like a little girl. If something goes wrong, you have lay hands and healing magic. Nothing will scare you, no disease applies to you. Your saves are somewhat too high for the pathetic nuisance of an opposition. You have not only arcane spells, but also minor divine spells.

A fighter/wizard, or a cleric/wizard will surely be different. Better or worse, it depends. Just different. Choose what you need or what you like and then the most appropriate class, race, stats, feats, skills and the like. You could also take a sorcerer instead of wizard. If you don't need to be able to advance further in paladin class and you don't want to take paladin and mage levels interchangeably, sorcerer should be better - after a given number of paladin levels.

I suppose the most damaging ass-kicker and ass-frier is a battleguard/sorcerer. As I pointed out in another thread, battleguards are practically fighters in their own right (surely no one else than fighters and battleguards gets weapon specialisation), while being full-fledged clerics. Both cleric and sorcerer have fire-based evocational spells. Greater focus: evocation, spirit of flame and greater penetration will serve both your classes, augmenting your abundance of highly destructive fire spells to the max. You will have worse BAB than a paladin/wizard (0.625 fighter BAB while p/w has 0.75), but your clerical spells will be much more serious and much more potent. Also think of spontaneous casting of healing spells. It should also be much easier for a battleguard/sorcerer to survive than for a paladin/wizard at the very beginning of the game. Reasons: more healing, more damage done (+2 on each hit from weapon specialisation), more arcane spells cast without prior preparation. Consequently, also much less resting. Roleplaying-wise, a chaotic cleric of a chaotic deity of war should go along very well with a wielder of sorcerous magic, potent, chaotic in nature and bent on destruction of the opposition.

Note: wizard taken instead of sorcerer might not be a bad idea. There are various uses for certain skills in solo gaming. Even your talking skills profit more from high rank than raw charisma. For example, my paladin/wizard has search and disarm trap skills apart from quite obvious concentration, alchemy, knowledge (arcana) and diplomacy. The idea is that a solo character develops those skills faster than a member of a party of six, while the DCs for traps remain the same. With a good INT of a wizard, getting one rank in each is a good idea - the sooner, the better. When your INT hits 20, it's +6 on each for the price of 2 skill points each. But if you get 6 SP per level... hehe. Remember you only need 15 in talking skills together with charisma bonus IIRC and 15 in alchemy together with INT bonus IIRC. Not that you couldn't survive with alchemy at all - just at one point in the game, you need either alchemy or intimidation to succeed - not sure if there's no other way, though.

It's ok... Anyway, I'm glad that you will look though previous posts(there are some who skip the previous posts and repeat what other have said). :)
Thanks for enlightening me, but something still wonders around in my head. Did your paladin/wizard wear any armour or you cast spells like stoneskin, mage armour?

I wear no body armour, but just a shield. My best AC has been 41.

It was a combination of the following spells:

Shield (+7 armour AC)
Protection from evil (+2 deflection AC)
Cat's grace (1 to 2 dexterity AC)
Haste (+4 armour AC)
Tenser's shift (+4 natural AC, + 2d4 dex => 1d4 dex AC)

and the following items:

Robe of enfusing (deflection +2 AC)
Snow leopard charm (amulet, +2 DEX => +1 AC)
Large shield +2 (+4 shield AC)
Cloak of displacement (+4 AC but only against missiles)

Expertise feat set to 5 => +5 dodge AC

My other defences include:

Stoneskin (first 10 dmg absorbed)
Blur (20% to miss me outright)
Mirror image (several simulacra to die first before I get any damage - especially useful against nasty spells of long-lasting effect)
Blink (50% to miss me outright, 20% for me to miss, so careful here)

I also use luck sometimes, and it affects rolls in my favour through a downright +1/-1 adjustment)

Improved invisibility needn't be explained, and fire shield provides some active defence by dealing 1d6+(1 per level) damage to whomever actually manages to hit me.

Emotion: hope lasts full 50 rounds and provides +2 to my saving throws. Saves are also affected by protection from evil. Fortitude gets a nice +5 from tenser's shift. Prayer gives another +1 to saves. Cloak of displacement on my back amounts to +2 to reflex and fortitude saves. Every god ring grants +5 wisdom, which is a +2 to will saves. Ah, I forgot that eagle's splendour would raise my saves through divine grace! I need to include that in my next battle!

My saves have reached: F28, R21, W28

If really hard times should come, I can memorise antimagic field. for 10 rounds per level, I would be immune to any magic at the cost of no casting. That, however, would preclude tenser's shift since both are last spells in the sequence.

If I were to face a very specific kind of creatures or magic, I have elemental protections and other specialised protections. Eh, I just learn all spells I can possibly get except necromancy (I hate it for roleplaying reasons) and conjuration (I technically can, but that would be bug exploit ;) )

Well, I've already mentioned several spells that also influence my offensive capacity, so why not finish off. So:

Bull's strength (+1d4+1 STR => 1d2 to hit and dmg)
Prayer (+1 to hit and dmg)
Emotion: hope (+2 to hit and dmg)
Tenser's shift (+2d4 STR => +1d4 to hit and dmg, Also +1 per 2 levels of caster to hit, which may Result in additional attacks per round)

Holy avenger enchantment (+5 to hit and dmg)
Ring of the warrior (+1 to hit)

Haste or improved haste increase the number of attacks per round. Fire shield: blue 'hits' those who hit me for more or less as much damage as I do (up to 20 without critical).

Against chimeras, dragons, half-dragons and daemons, fiendslayer feat yields +2 to hit and dmg. Note that there's even too much of that scum in the game, so the feat is employed quite often.

My highest attack bonus not including bonuses against specific creatures was +42, IIRC. Some five attacks or more. With expertise enabled, +5 is taken off that and given to AC as dodge bonus. Frankly, how often do you miss when you roll 1d20+37? :shake:

For special occasions, there's smite evil. CHA modifier added to to hit bonus (damn, I always forget to cast eagle's splendour before!) and you get +1 damage per paladin level to damage. Only against evil creatures, though. Note: that something is trying to eat you up doesn't mean that something is evil ;)

Additional HP is supplied by draw upon holy might (1 point to STR, DEX and CON per 3 levels of caster, doesn't stack up with other bonuses, so it's just a +2 to CON in my case, a 24 HP) and by tenser's shift (1d6 per caster level).

My stats are:

Aasimar paladin of Mystra 12 / diviner 12 (http://www.chevalier.szm.com/screens/iwd2_4.jpg)

Max HP 185 (got some from quests)

Resistances: acid 10, cold 5, electricity 5, fire 5

STR 16 (15 at start)
DEX 10
CON 10
INT 20 (16 at start)
WIS 17 (14 at start)
CHA 16

Skills (rank only):

Alchemy 15
Concentration 24
Diplomacy 23 (I know, I know)
Disable device 4
Knowledge (arcana) 18
Search 9
Spellcraft 25

Feats: armoured arcana 3, expertise, fiendslayer, improved critical, large sword 2, evocation 2, penetration 2, spirit of flame

Note: search and disable device started at one when my INT became uber. Just one point to become able to use a trained-only skill. Later on, I increased them. Search is higher since you can't disarm a trap you haven't first spotted, but sometimes you can go around one that you can't disarm. In fact, I could have left some other skills at lower levels and rely on stat-based bonuses for checks and I would have a better search & disarm ability now.

Other than +1 stat point per 4 levels, I made use of the potion of holy transference for permanent +2 to wisdom at the cost of -1 to dexterity, and got +1 to STR and WIS from the holy avenger quest.

My stats with items are:

STR 16
DEX 12
CON 10
INT 21
WIS 22
CHA 16

Most of the time, STR and DEX are greater because of long-lasting (hour per level) bull's strength and cat's grace spells.

My record increase was:

STR: 25
DEX: 17 (got 21 another time, but worse other stats)
CON: 12
HP: 251
AC: 39 (got 41 once, worse other stats)

Offensive repertoire:

Fireball, 2 (normally 4, but there's not much room for it in the hand - too many innocents around)
Sunfire, 4 :holy: (normally 5)

Hehe, and that's it. See feats for more details ;)

Semi-offensive:

Chromatic orb (at my caster level it does some damage and holds the target in place for 13 rounds), 5 - used to be useful, but now everyone seems immune. Draconic frost wyrms weren't immune, but ordinary guards in the Hand are, heh.

Feeblemind, 1 - just in case (it's the same level as sunfire, so most of the time 5 level slots are divided somehow between these two) - worked on Izbelah :evil:

From Aasimar class: sun scorch - some ridiculous damage and blinds the target

[ December 07, 2003, 01:38: Message edited by: chevalier ]