you guys are probably sick of giving party advice by now...

half-orc ftr4/barbx
Str 20, Dex 12, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 6
main tank, get the 4 levels in fitr first, then progress the rest of the way in barb.
am thinking of using a two-handed axe with this guy to take best advantage of his high str

duergar fighter
Str 18, Dex 12, Con 20, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 6
second tank, pure fighter, also has some innate abilites which are nice.
am thinking of giving this char a sword and shield, to maximize his ability to take a beating

tiefling roguex/rngr1
Str 14, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 6
almost a pure rogue, I will start as a rogue for the most skill pts, then take the rngr level, the progress the rest of the way as a rogue. she will dual wield and be a sneak attack expert, as well as the party scout and locksmith
likely dual wield with 2 short swords, or one short sword and a dagger (depending on which magical items I use) might also be missle support occasionally

human cleric of Bane
Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 18
this will be the party talker, that is why the Cha is pumped up to max... I went with a human here for the extra skill pts to invest into teh diplomatic skills. I realize that good aligned clerics might be a little better suited to getting thru the game, but I am going with an evilly aligned party here, with some ECL classes and such... just kind of my own theme. I am thinking of giving him a crossbow for missle support (would 4 levels in ftr be worth it down teh road for weapon specialization in crossbows?) I am wondering if I should reduce the Int score a little since he already gets extra skill pts for being human, and maybe putting them elsewhere, any suggestions?

drow necromancer
Str 12, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 12
he will be an offensive minded spellcaster... necromancer is to go along with the evil theme of the party, plus I have always like the spells in the necromancy school. He will be the secondary talker for dialogs that need high Int.

I realize that there are 3 ECL char, but I am hoping that will be made up by the challenge rating system, and it will only hurt in the early going... plus I am thinking of only going with this party of 5 to try to offset that ECL penalty a little bit.

any advice for different stat pt placement would be welcomed, but I dont want to poach any scores below 6.

I am also considering adding a 6th char to this party, but am unsure if I want to, and if I do, I am unsure what to add.

I was considering adding a human druid, for the shapeshifting and druid spells down the road, but I dont know if a druid would really fit into this party's evil theme... maybe an outcast druid? or evil druid that uses his ability and spells to manipulate nature instead of working with nature?

the other option was to go with a deep gnome monk. he will be very slow leveling, though, but could turn into a very powerful character later on with his Wis bonus...

anyway, input is welcome, thanks.

Druid would be good for this party but most people are making lvl 1 barbarian + x druid, also i've never tried a duergar fighter,also dual wielding rogue idea is cool!

Your party is the first one where I saw a necromancer, and drow, thats good one.

You have two fighters, one could be a paladin/fighter or only paladin.

[ January 21, 2003, 05:56: Message edited by: Rekiller ]

Paladin? In an evil party?

Comment on the human cleric. With maxed wis and char he would be more like casting spells (boosting your fighters) but with no Con-modifier you would like combat-casting as feat and concentration skills. Don't lower your int for Skill points to put in Concentration unless you put them in constitution.

I would change your necromancer into druid, but that's just me. A drow necromancer would fit your evil party, but why shouldn't a wild elf druid? And the spells of druid are rather offensive and tricky, then defensive. IMHO, a cleric with druid is a nice combo in any party. But a wizard is versatile and can deal with unsuspected matters.

A deep gnome Monk starts with 5000xp at start and will need 5000 more to level up. So you won't get hitpoints very quickly. But with 20 wis he would have a AC of 19 from start.
Up to you... Very powerfull, though.

Except for your barbarian and fighter, you lack hitpoints and 2 fighter-like chars can't defend your partymembers.
Think of an other powerhouse or multiclass your wiz with a rogue.

I agree, I dont think that a paladin would be happy adventuring with this party that I have in mind, lol... I am just generally not fond of good aligned parties and such... I have always enjoyed roleplaying the evil characters. just personal preference.

for my cleric, I was planning to use him as a spellcaster only, I really had no plans to send him into melee... I wanted to have him use a crossbow for missle support when he was not casting spells in the heat of battle, and was considering taking 4 levels in fighter for weapon specialization in crossbow... but the advice about Int vs Con is sound. thanks

I like to have a focused offensive caster, thus the choice of a single class drow wizard. I realize the ECL penalty may be difficult to overcome at times, but the spell resistance might be worth it due to the low hit points of the wizard class. I am still considering adding the druid, but as a separate party member.

yes, the deep gnome monk would be slow leveling, but with other ECL races in the party, it might be balanced somewhat with teh CR of the game... I could always squat a bit with the other characters as well, until the ECL char are ready to level up... still debating monk vs druid, though...

2 tanks are not enough for the party? I thought more would be overkill... the rogue may eventually be able to melee somewhat, but I pictured him as more of a sneak attack expert, taking out enemy wizards and clerics, while the fighters held the front lines and melee'd. using the cleric and wizard as spell support, and as occasional missle support as well (plan to give the drow wiz a nice bow). would a 6th party member be needed to serve as a third tank? if so, should I consider another class rather than monk or druid?

thanks for the input so far.

Mmmh... You make me think.

Since your cleric will mostly avoid melee, a nice heavy crossbow might come in handy. But I'm not sure if the price would be a bit high. You offer 4 cleric-levels for weapon specialization. That is 2 divine spell-levels! But still, a good shot with a crossbow is nice... Aaargh!

2 tanks would be enough, if you can get your rogue and spellcaster out of serious harm and if your cleric would have a nice armor class (with 10 con, he won't have amazing hitpoints). If you're about to add an other char, pick one with decent melee skills. Druids can defend themselves fine and have some nice disabling spells as well as offensive (high wis, decent str and con). Just try one. ;)

even if I did take the fighter levels, it would *very* late in the game... with my only other dedicated caster an ECL race, I might have to rely on my cleric quite a bit in the early going for spell support... so it would be after cleric level 15 at least, so maybe not even until after I finish the game and get into HoF... I could always just get weapon focus instead in the meantime... and maybe a nice crossbow like the Hell Bolter will make me not miss the +2 dmg...

;)

Don't bother with the weapon specialization. Two extra damage just doesn't seem worth four levels, to me. I mean seriously, think of what else you could do with those levels!

I don't know what to tell you about the 6th character other than to forget about it. You've got two tanks, a rogue that should be able to at least stall bad guys by avoiding the attacks, and with two fire supporters, you are set. The monk would just be sheer butchery, and a drain on your party levels, which might not be so bad if you want to squat. I don't see a problem with using a druid, but like I said before, go with what you have. It'll still beat that ass.

I say take a sorcerer along. Two tanks should be enough, but if it isn't, you can have your Cleric and Sorcerer cast Animate Dead or other summons.

I got to say 4 fighterlevels for +2 damage isn't worth it. If you're already a fighter character? Fine. If you're a spellcaster? Take one level tops for the extra feat, and stick with that.

And I would not advice giving your cleric a crossbow. Clerics don't need Dex. Especially if they're not in melee. But you do need Dex for ranged attacks. So unless you wish to boost dex, I'd say no against that.

Always pack your chars with SOME ranged weapon. And a crossbow will be fine, don't rely on it to much, though, seeing your stats.

thanks for all of the input.

what I will probably do is start the game with the party of 5 I outlined above (with possibly some minor tweaks and changes) and then possibly decide to add a 6th party member down the road, once I get a better idea of what I feel my party is lacking as I progress through the game...

plus, I could always start over with a new party.

I am quite certain I will end up trying a great deal of party combos anyway... ;)

as for the cleric, I agree, 4 ftr levels arent worth missing 4 cleric levels and the higher level and # of spells associated with that. the crossbow I planned to give him was only so that he had a ranged weapon for when his spells needed to be saved, or he ran out of useful spells. I didnt want to give him a sword and have him getting his arse handed to him in melee. plus, I planned to give my wizard a bow, and my rogue either a crossbow or a sling (for blunt missle dmg)... a lot of that depends on what decent bows and crossbows drop as I go thru the game.

thanks for all of the input, though!

Why don't you equip your cleric with a sling instead of crossbow. IIRC, slings use STR modifier for attack rolls and damage.

When we take a closer look, at the clerics stats, we see that STR and DEX are both at 10 (+0 modifier). I think that wouldn't make a difference. ;)

MoN, you are absolutely right. :eek: I replied based on usual cleric build. I never take into account that build. :shake: