I am building a rogue, but i am having some difficulty understanding the feats. in order to get weapon finesse you need to have small blade proficiency. but the rogue already comes with small blade proficiency, and it still won't let me select weapon finesse. Do you need weapon 'Focus' to get weapon finesse? or is weapon finesse just not available at 1st level? Also, can you use the attack bonus from weapon finesse to get improved critical?
thanks a lot
-outputrotation

You get the attack bonus from weapoan finense when criticals are determined.
Weapon finense has a prerequisite of BAB +1 as well as being prof. with small blades. As you wrote, rogue is already prof. with small blade but you won't have +1 BAB until you reach level 2 as a rogue.

Unfortunately I think Anakha is wrong, confused at least; so, just to make things clear, neccessary or not:

Weapons finesse's main advantage is to allow high dex characters the use dex to make a hit instead of str as normal. The prerequisite is BAB-1, so a fighter class can choose it on lvl-1, a rogue can't since he only achieves BAB-1 one level later.
. As for the attack bonus: You always get the finesse bonus when wielding a small blade! There is no direct connection at all between finesse and when you get improved crit!
Improved crit (as well as the "keen" characteristic of a weapon) just lowers the number you have to roll in your general attack for a crit by 1. A scimitar for example has a crit range from 18-20 in PnP, then causing double damage. A keen scimitar used with improved crit would give the wielder an impressibe crit range from 16-20.
. Improved crit has the prerequisite BAB-8, that is the base-attack bonus. Ability mods such as str as well as dex mod don't have any influence on when you're able to choose it, even a fighter wouldn't be able to get improved crit on a level below 8, and a rogue even later!
. The BAB is level and class dependent! The attack bonus is iirc calculated like that: BAB + ability mod (dex or str) + special modifiers (like from items) + weapon mod (as for masterwork = +1, or enchanted, like +something) + projectile mod if ranged also a (when you use masterwork or enchanted arrows). I don't know if the factors are listed in the right order, anyway, since it is an addition I can't see a real problem in it :shake: .Hope that helped.

[ January 16, 2003, 10:20: Message edited by: Ragusa ]

For improved critical you need a BAB of +8. I wouldn't suggest this as by the time you can get this your sneak attacks should be much stronger and critical hits don't use the sneak attack modifer.

say your are dual-wielding a scimitar(large sword) and a short sword, would the weapon finesse apply to both? or will the long sword use your strength bonus and the short sword use the dex bonus?

thanks,
thirdeye

Weapon finesse does not work on large blades only small blades (should work for fists too but it doesn't).

Indeed, you would receive weapon finesse dex-mod for the s'sword and the normal str-mod for the l'sword.
Equally, the crit range with or without improved crit would be added separately for different weapon types.

:doh: Just a misunderstanding. He asked about improved critical feat. I thought he asked if he can get critical hit with a character who has weapon finense.
Thanks to you Ragusa, for preventing me from giving wrong information.

[ January 17, 2003, 08:08: Message edited by: Anakha the Almighty ]