Ok so I completed the Bg saga about 3 weeks ago now. Since I have bought Cossacks and Stronghold and given them back and had my money refunded (just not great games). NWN for the expense just doesn't seem worth it and Icewind Dale and its sequel received almost universally bad reviews from what I've seen... BG only without all the things that made BG great and a whole lot more fighting (not necessarily a good thing.) I bought Zeus: Master of Olypus today but it's too hard and I'm used to RPGs not Sims now. So where to next? Planesacpe: Torment seems the natural place to turn but it doesn't seem available anywhere (even from Sorcerer's Place links) and I would never turn to the dark side (Diablo etc.) any advice?

Isn't Morrowind the most logical choice for anyone even remotely interested in CRPGs?

I'd place it above even such jewels as Planescape: Torment and Fallout, as the World's Best CRPG Ever Not Counting The MMORPGs Which I'm Just Too Poor To Play (As I'm On A Pay-Per-Minute Dial-up 'Net Connection And Too Lazy To Get A Job To Cover The Expense). ;)

Yeah, what he said. I'm not sure if I'm gonna go and name Morrowind "best rpg ever" yet, but it's definitely close. I've spent 500+ hours on it, with 2 very different characters, and I haven't had to play one quest twice... And it's not just that, the entire game, battling, resting, traveling, becomes completely different with a new class and race. It definitely wins "best replay value in an rpg ever", hands down in my opinion. :)

Yeah, Morrowind or Fallout 1/2 :)

Nah the fallouts seem pretty boring. Out of ones i've played i'd say get Dungeon Siege IWD (it IS good) or Torment. I might get morrowind eventually it looks class.

Z, the fallouts SEEM pretty boring? Have you played them?

IWD is a good game along the lines of BG2 but not a many quests and a bit more hack and slash. Fallout 1&2 are both excellent games with great plots and action. They allow wide ranging character development and tons of locations and options for non-liniar adventuring. Z-Layrex, they are so much better than Dragon Siege. DS is great eye candy but that is about it. No plot, no real character development, just nice places to look at and lots of clicking as you try to kill everything in sight.

Jack funk, yes i own both. I put seem pretty boring because i have only played an hour in with both.

I'd really suggest you give them more of a chance. F1 does start a little slow but by the time you make to it the raiders camp it really takes off. F2 is also a little slow in the intro but again people need a chance to get use to the interface and gameplay before all hell breaks lose. They both have great stories and lot of quests and action. The non-linear nature of the game and it's re-play value are great. There are so many ways to solve each problem, force, smarts, stealth, betrayal, and sheer bluff. You can be the savior of your people or a down right bastard in each game. Give them a spin I think you will chance your mind after a few more hours.

It is your duty as a CRPG'er to have played both Fallouts and Planescape. You are missing out on so much otherwise.

You can get Planescape:Torment and Both Fallout 1&2 for around $20 near where I live. (Planescape comes with Soulbringer aswell)

[ August 21, 2002, 04:37: Message edited by: Frog ]

I'm going to have to agree about Torment. It is an amazing game, and no self-respecting CRPG fan would ignore it.

Morrowind, best RPG ever? I still haven't figured out just what the hell's going on with that world. I need some kind of 'Background of Morrowind HIstory and Mythology for Complete Numbskulls' website. I'm still irritated that the first couple of mage guild quests had me walk twenty minutes away from the guild, pick flowers, then walk back. :nolike:

[ August 21, 2002, 09:31: Message edited by: The Deviant Mage ]

Return to Krondor is ok once you get into it.

I have Return to Krondor it was my first RPG it is SO linear. One cannot even compare it to BG.

Deviant Mage - everything you might ever want to know of Morrowind's history, and then some, can be learned from Morrowind's many books, available in bookstores and libraries throughout the game.

Much more realistic than having it all served to you in 2 paragraphs at the beginning of the game's manual, yes? ;)

Besides, some of the books in the game are works of art by themselves. I'm now collecting the better ones to store them in my stronghold. Along with a vast pile of magical items, a slave concubine, dozens of candles, and some skulls for decoration.

Yep, Morrowind definitely takes the concept of escapism to a WHOLE new level... :D

Morrowind is so HUGE. First time i played it i got lost for a week inside :( . It's the biggest game i've ever known.
But flaws are quite often IMO
-journal is so streched you get over 20 pages then with 1minor quest over 2 pages :confused: silly

-Rewards from quests =no XP i went to vivec spent there three days and i was still same level when i went in.

-Specialization every good character eventualy developes to be jack-off-all-trades there are mages and fighter and all that but only in the beggining on the end everybody knows the same

-weight problem now THAT realy pissed me of. Wandering throught Vivec i had to drop some equipment several times only to forget where when i later came to pick it up.

-merchants now this is one of the biggest problems too. Most merchant have below 3000gp and then you go into daedric ruins get a short sword which you can sell for 15000gp. Now where will you gona find someone with that much money???

- character speed you spend half playing time just running around. There are botts of speed but they blind you as well(if you are Briton you have 50% MR so all is just darker)

and then that is my personal opinion: i dont like 1-person view. i dont know why but ust the way it is. I know you can switch to 3-person view but then you can't see crosshair you realy need for picking items and all that.

But these flaws are not enough to make morrowind less than excelent game. Whoever likes freedom this is the game for him

The poor merchants isn't a flaw though. It makes no sense that those small merchants that sell iron and perhaps nordic weapons should have the kind of money needed to buy fancy ebony or daedric equipment. Besides, it's easy to download plugins that sidestep this problem.. but you'll destroy the game balance: Enchanting is expensive in this game for a reason, and if you cheat and exploit yourself rich, you'll be able to buy uber enchanted weapons way too early in the game.

I know that it feels weird at first to just leave that Daedric Claymore lying around on the floor where you found it, but that's how the game works.

yeah OK its normal for small merchants not having money to buy daedric weapons but there could be some merchants who would have enough money to do it. Its realy stupid to leave best weapons lying around becouse you cant sell them. I never saw a game to do such a thing before. Developers might think that would make you feel powerful- holding a weapon that a whole kingdom cant buy but it doesnt work IMO.

I've ordered Torment but it's taking AGES to get here. Tal - has this game been deleted? I can't find it in any shops and even Amazon is out of stock, this site "Gameswire.co.uk" says it's "temporarily out of stock - allow upto 28 days", will I get my game?

What's that got to do with me if you didn't order via any SP store? C&B is the only store that still sells it, and it's on SP.

I did try to buy it through SP and it just wasn't happening, it told me that it was indefinitely out of stock.

Did you even read my post? I said only C&B still have it. :rolleyes:

Actually, C&B say that it's out of stock.

If you are looking for Torment in the United States, try your local Wal-Mart. I've found it in several stores being sold for $9.99 in a small box along with another game whose title I can't remember at the moment. The second game was some form of RPG, maybe even from BioWare. I forget.

Anyway, I've found copies at all but one of my local Wally Worlds. Good luck with your own search.

Just a couple of comments -

I found Planescape in CompUSA's bargain bin/shelf for $10, packaged with another game (Soulbringer).

Dungeon Siege sucks. I don't remember who said it, but if you're offering it as an alternative to Neverwinter Nights or Morrowind, you're crazy, man.

IMO, Morrowind's kinda...I dunno. Boring. Please don't kill me yet :D I mean, it's open as hell, but for some ungodly reason it all seems so lifeless. Even in cities. I guess I miss having a party. I'm a social guy, wandering the wastes alone is kinda boring :D

Soulbringer was the game packaged with Torment in Wal-mart as well. Thanks, TheNovak.

Just doing my duty to mankind :D

Oh, hey, I'd also recommend Freedom Force if you haven't tried it. Especially now that The Patch is finally out. It's a great RPG/tactical hybrid, kinda like Fallout Tactics on acid. Definitely worth the $30 you'll plunk down for it.