I've read several novels in which Cyric was the main character. The most notable of these was Crucible: The Trial of Cyric The Mad. In it, pretty much all the GODS (even the evil ones) were saying Cyric was the biggest bastard and most psychotic being ever, even when he was human. Now, I've just finished reading Shadowdale and am well through my way into Tantras and I have to disagree with the GODS. In Shadowdale, Cyric is actually portrayed as a nice guy. He fought not only for himself but for his friends, he tried to escape his former unlawful life as a thief and assasin, even making an enemy out of the Shadow Thieves, just for a chance to start over. He did many things that could actually be classified as quite heroic, and the only time that he started to "become evil" was when he realized that He didn't need his allies half as much as they needed him and when they started proving themselves incompetent and unreliable. He even broke them out of jail. Now his methods were evil and his intentions less than pure, but he also did it because he felt his pals were getting a bum deal. All in all, what I'm trying to say is that Cyric didn't start out as "Chaotic Evil", hell he was probably only a "lawful evil" to a "true neutral". He realized he was being changed and herded by the system, that's why he decided to "CHANGE the system" and in order to do that he needed to become a GOD. Cyric wasn't such a bad guy... he was only kinda misunderstood. anyone else feel the same? Or think I'm an evil worshipper of the strifeleader ;) ?

Good points, but Cyric was mad. After reading his own book, the Cyrinishad, he believed himself to be more powerful than any of the other gods and Ao. He was insanse, until he had Oghma's "True Life . . ." book read to him at his trial.

Think we'll see any new books focusing on Cyric, Kel, and Mystra once the 3e FR book is released? I'd like to know if Kel and Mystra ever reconsile, but its doubtful.

R'syil, the reason you see Cyric portrayed so differently across those novels is because they were written by 3 (4?) different peopl. I couldn't believe the change Cyric went through between Shadowdale and Tantras. It was weird. Which is why triologies should be written by one person. Then Cyric could have been consistently evil.

Master, I think Awlinson wrote both Shadowdale and Tantras. Which is why at the end of Shadowdale, they were strongly hinting which side Cyric would take in the conflict. And didn't you notice that throughout Shadowdale they were explaining Cyric's orgin and motivations, could we blame him for everything he did? He went mad when he read the cyrinishad, but he wasn't mad before. He was a shrewd thinker and is one now once again. Cyric was just an average joe dealt a really bad hand by life, and he tried EVERYTHING he could (in Zhentil Keep!) to do good, when he realized he couldn't do more, that's when he decided to take care of only himself. A logical point of view. He was NEVER consitently evil. I think the good gods don't like him because he's evil and the bad gods are just afraid of him. Notice how Talos didn't give a reason for his vote? It had nothing to do with Cyric's capability to run his realm. He was getting a bum deal and I can't wait til the next one, where he gets back at them and possibly feeds mask to kezef, bit by bit ;) Mwahahaha!

R'syil, look at the about the author section in the back. Awlinson was a psuedonym (sp?)Richrd All-in-one. get it? :) the triology was written by three different people. Only one I can remember right now is Troy Denning. look in the back of the book. And my point was that between Shadowdale and Tantras we see him going from guy-with-a-small-temper-easily-explained-by-his-horrible-past to guy-with-big-temper-way-the-hell-outta-proportion-to-his-experiences. If they were gonna make him the evil God of Psychopathic Madmen (and yes, I know he's the god of strife, murder, etc) his behavior should have consistet throughout the novel. In the first book he was likeable, in the second and third he was a bloodthirsty, cruel, capricious murderer-but no reason was given for the change. It was just different people's takes on the character

[This message has been edited by AMaster (edited April 23, 2001).]

Oh yeah, I remember (vaguely) someone mentioning about that Awlinson. Musta not paid attention :D
Yeah master, I guess you're right, it was just the different authors' take on Cyric. But I still think he's the GOD with the most personality. Kelemvor is now a sullen GOD that takes his job too seriously and Mystra is just pissed at him. Cyric "made" them that way. As for GODLY Strength? Are Helm and Tyr REALLY that much more powerful than the other GODS? I mean, without Ao as backup. Because Helm seems to be able to kick everybodys ass and Tyr's authority is normally taken without question. btw do you know any other good books where the focus is on the GODS?

Some FR books focusing on the gods? the only non-Avatar novels like that I know of are Finder's Bane and Tymora's Luck. They're both pretty good (interestingly, they combine elements of the FR, Dragonlance, Planescape AND Spelljammer universes). If you like Dragonlance, there is one of those types of books in that universe as well, though I can't recall its name.

I'll check out Finder's Bane and Tymora's luck. I have Azure Bonds. It was really quite good. The whole thing about the runes representing several powers was kewl. And the thing about Mist showing respect to the Saurial. Dragonbait made paladins look good... ;)
btw Master, have you read the Cormyr Saga? I highly recommend it.

Kel had to change his ways, heroes were throwing their lives away and Kel was giving their souls to Torm and other godsl even though they did not pray to him. If things continued, heroes would cease to exist.

I would like to see Mystra and Kel reconsile though Lord Death and Lady magic do not mux very well.

Yeah, kel was being human when he was supposed to be a GOD. No, I'd rather that there was a tension between them. It would be kinda crappy if Kelemvor voted exactly the same as Mystra or never contradicted her, like Chauntea and Lathander. Boy that guy is WHIPPED! :D Kelemvor's lucky that Helm didn't decide to send him into his own realm (dead) after he threatened him :p

Kel is a greater power, Helm is an intermediate power, Helm would not stand a chance. :P

Chauntea and Lathander are pathetic, Lathander follows her lead like a lap dog.


The tension between Lady Magic and Lord Death can introduce many plot elements, but it saddens me, I'm a sucker for hard luck cases, I guess.

Bat: I'm with you on Chauntea and Lathander and Kel and Mystra. But Kel vs. Helm? Come on. This isn't even gonna be a fight ;) Kel was tough as a HUMAN (he had a real cool orgin...) but as a GOD, Helm would kick his ass :p Helm wont give up no matter what if it's his duty or if he thinks it needs to be done (see Wolverine of the X-Men)

True, if Helm feels it is his duty, then Kel would be hard pressed. But Kel is a greater power, where Helm is an intermediate power.

True, but how do you think one becomes a greater power?

;)

Easier to become a Greater Power, get more worshippers ;)

Kind of got to this topic a little late. Anyway, what's this about a book about a trial with Cyric in it? I only read the Avatar trilogy as far as Cyric goes.

My opionion on Cyric's alignment.

Pre-Shadowdale - CN
Shadowdale - CG
Tantras - CN
Waterdeep - CE

Now I know that one's alignment isn't really supposed to change all that much, but that's how he acted. I found Cyric by far as the most interesting character, followed somewhat distantly by Midnight. Let's face it people... Adon just sucked. And I know he couldn't use his clerical powers, but still...

Being a greater or lesser power has little to do with your combat prowess. It has more to do with how many floowers you have and what your portfolio includes. For example, Selune and Shar have been contending for a long time, even though Selune is Interrmediate and Shar Greater. Nither one has a big advantage though.

Actualy, I thought that stupid sword was driving him mad. Of course, it then turned out to be Mask, so maybe my theory down the drain. I really liked Cyric in ShadowDale, though.

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[This message has been edited by Blackthorne TA (edited May 31, 2001).]