Wow, all along I thought I was "Like a Rolling Stone", and finally I realize that I'm actually a Pink Dragon Disciple, just like Tal!

Oh, how long have I been a PDD without realizing it? :hmm:

I must have leveled up or something! If only SP had a handy level-up indicator that pops up over our portraits like on KOTOR or something, then I would have known right away, and been able to choose all my cool new abilities...

Of course, I'm only a first level PDD, unable even to grow cute little pink wings, let alone turn into a Pink Dragon like talk (or even get the "Impersonate Red Dragon" HLA). In fact, as a 1st level PDD, I'm a PDD in name only...


But on the other hand, this does make me the second highest level PDD on these boards! I can only think that Tal has singled me out as his apprentice! You may all refer to me as "The Chosen One" from now on, thank you very much! :shake:

For those interested, the saga of Tal and the Glorious Order of Pink Dragon Disciples is discussed here (http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/18/784.html) and here (http://www.sorcerers.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/18/789.html).

Well, you had this unhealthy obsession with pink dragons, so I thought I'd let you play it out in hopes that it'd help... it's either that, or help from a shrink, and I don't think we have any in residence...

oooooooh!! Can I join!! Please!? I love the colour pink (and dragons)! and I would love to be able to manifest cute pink wings! *giggle*

I was wondering about that. So it was TAL who changed your title? :lol:

And I still stand by my Ruby Dragon theory. :p

I can just imagine Tal shifting uncomfortably on that throne of his when he had to go through with this titel change... Fun fun! :grin:

edit -- Oh, hold it! Bion did not ask for this change?! Did I get that right? Why, thats even better. :lol:

[ September 06, 2005, 01:03: Message edited by: Dendri ]

Congratulation, Bion. After trying to sneak attack, back stab and ham string you over the pink vs red I gave in and fell into your devilish grasp. However, I do not want to be a disciple to the Pink Dragon Disciple because I don't care for pink. I think Felinoid may convert me to Ruby Dragon disciple. Ruby is a much nicer and richer color than blah old pink. :evil:

This means I was seeing Bion through the proper lenses. :hippy:

The thing is, I have absolutely no idea how long I've been a PDD.

But I have to say, it's pretty great, and as you can see from the posts so far, the chicks dig PDDs, even if they look like evil elves or scary old men!

Why have you never heard of PDDs in 3e before, you might ask. Let me tell you: way overpowered! :lol:

lol. So tell me what are PDD about? What are their goals? What are they like? Are they all gay (lol joking)? What are pink dragons like?

Please fill me in. ^_^

Hey Bion? Can I wear your leather jacket and be your deb? :lol:

:sigh: More name changes.

Kuemper T. Minion, Pink Dragon Disciple Debutante. Now I have to wear my hair up in a ponytail with a poodle skirt.

hehe... my location...

Gay? No, just a little metrosexual....

As they say, Real Men Wear Pink (http://mensfashion.about.com/od/wardrobebasics/a/pink.htm)...

There is something alluring about pink. Maybe that’s because psychologically it is known to have a calming effect. Or maybe it’s because pink is complimentary to most skin tones, unless you already have a lot of pink tone in your skin (like me). Or maybe it’s because a man who wears pink exudes confidence, yet is sensitive. It could be as simple as the fact that pink is easy to coordinate with almost every color in your wardrobe--it goes amazingly well with greys, tans, black, navys and other blues tones. And lastly, if you're still not convinced how great pink is, women love pink and are more likely to give you a second glance. So give pink a try if you haven’t already. I have outlined four ways you can incorporate this magical color into your wardrobe.

I want to go back in time and slap that doctor that decided to colour code babies as blue and pink... for decades now guys have been disallowed by society for wearing pink... "You cant wear pink! People will think youre gay!" Well I say "pfft on society!" Let the guys wear whatever colour they want too. ^_^ I personally think its cool to see guys wearing pink.

Hey good thing I've a pink t-shirt. I'm like a real man :p

Is Ofelix gay? No he is only merry

Anyway; PDD looks cool, what kind of neat power to they get ?

By the by Bion does this mean you're what cespenar is to Bhaal but for Taluntain? I.E Tal's buttler? :) :D

Im still waiting on an explanation of this cool sounding class.

Advantages, innate powers, spells, familiars, any special feats, weapons proficiencies, disadavantages... :D

I'm a drcaolich that used to be a red dragon disciple and a close cousin to the PDD.
It's nice to see a PDD again they're rare mainly because of their cuteness hunters track them down, stuff and mount them and sell off their claws as an aphrodisiac. (Rather similar to rhinos in Africa).
Perhaps you should find a nice safe safari park for Bion so that he'll be safe form said hunters and evil dracoliches.
Now where was that mercenary guild number.... :D

I heard PDD were used mostly as lighters for cigar smoking merchants from Cormyr. A little tickle under the chin... :flaming: ...that's a good, Bion. :lol:

You've had this new title for, oh... a fortnight or so. Since you've brought the subject up the last time, anyway. :evil:

PM me when you want to change it back.

Hey, don't mess with the PDD... they're way, overpowered, pure cheese. Especially the new "Change Identity" HLA...

But don't worry, they're very rare; not just everyone can make the 16+ stat requirements in Int, Wis, and Cha.
:shake:

ahh, so I've been a PDD for two weeks and didn't notice! Perhaps I will wear it with pride for a while longer...

What is the PDD's breath weapon?

Candyfloss ????

That's what I was thinking. Sticky and sugary. Instant tooth decay.

A pink dragon's breath weapon is known as the dreaded Cone of Cotton Candy (or Fairy Floss if youre in the UK). While kids love it, their parents loath the appearance of Pink Dragons.

"Dont go near that pink dragon, or youll ruin your supper!" Is a common expression in villages where pink dragons have their sugary hoards. :D

Pink dragons are also related to Fairy Dragons, and most likely familiars of female arcanists, and some very confident male arcanists.

When used as a weapon, Cone of Cottoncandy works much like the spell Webs. It also deals 1 point of damage to any teeth the mess comes in contact with, as well as leaving the target terribly sticky and an ant/bee magnet until it is washed off.

(Shudder) Can you imagine it you've been candyflossed by a Pink Dragon you've managed to get your armour off; by yourself nobody's coming near you while you've got that stuff on you.

You've cleaned, buffed up your armour and then you find your sword is glued to your scabbard which is glued to your baldric. Your quiver of arrows is just one sticky mess with the arrows all stuck together and they won't come out now.

And how the hell did it get in my bag of holding all I can bring out now is handfuls of pink stuff sometimes with something solid in it..... :D

I know fortune favours the brave but if I see a pink dragon I'm outta there so fast you wouldn't believe it.

Remember, SPAM is also pink...

lmao. Im not sure, but I think Cone of Spam could be alot more disgusting... can you imagine a dragon spewing tons of vienna sausages or that awful spam stuff at its target? :D

All I have to say is: ewww

Now you're going to throw tins of Spam (vikings stand up in the cafe and start humming a rosuing chorus 'spam, spam, spam, lovely spam') I'm definitely not going near that pink dragon....

Have you got anything with a little less spam in it ? :lol:

Yeah cottoncandy! hehe. *nods* I Like the cottoncandy alot better than the spam idea :)

And I'm only a first level Spammer/Pink Dragon Disciple...

Imagine the Spam HLAs Tal must possess! :mommy:

Cone of Cottoncandy (HLA): At this level it have the same effect as acid, it can instantly disintergrate metal, and can cause acne with in seconds.

Diabetics should also be very careful around pink dragons.

O_o

I'm still running. I ain't stopping til I get to Black dragon territory and i'll ask nicely if I can hide there, they'll protect me if I give them enough gold/jewels.

Where's that mercenary guild now that I really need them...

I've got 1-800-ghostbusters hah hahah hahahhaha

But they arent evil! They are all of good alignments! And they are friendly too! Why do you think kids can go ruin their teeth when theres a pink dragon in the area? hehe.

If someone got plastered with cottoncandy its probly because they attacked the dragon first. :p

Which leads me too... what do pink dragons like to collect? Are they like magpies and borrower birds and will collect anything shiney and pretty? :)

It;s precisely because they're pink, fluffy, cute, nice friendly and tooth-rotting that I want to gather them up in abig field and...... [censored]


The thought police have censored and gagged this dracolich Can't I just kill No get back in your cage and leave the nice fluffy ones alone

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!! Evil heretic!!

A pink dragon was the originator of the phrase "Wont you be my neighbour?" :D Ok so thats not the best of things that one could say... hehe

But they arent evil! Wh...yes they are!!! Pink is a color, chromatic dragons are evil. That means a pink dragon would want to be evil incarnate, and I think it very likely that one who could only spit cotton candy or spam would kill itself out of shame. Chromatic dragons don't do cutesy. :nono:

To summarize:
pink = color = chromatic = evil :evil:

If you say so. But I think that pidgeon-holing races into evil/neutral/good is stupid... but then Im just a dumb girl what do I know? :p hehe

If you want to get *really* techinical, copper, gold, brass, and silver are colours too, and so they should be evil as well!

And theres a number of minerals and gems that are pink as well, dont think there are any metals that are pink naturally though.. unless you want to say that "red gold" can be pink :p

Well, according to this (http://www.gold.org/jewellery/technology/alloys/) site, pink can also be the result of a number of alloys of gold/copper, gold/silver/copper, and silver/copper:

Gold is yellow and copper is red, the only two coloured pure metals. All other metals are white or grey in colour. The addition of a red colour to yellow, as every school child knows, makes the yellow pinker and eventually red.This site only lists admixtures with gold, and pink ones include, by % weight:

91.6% gold / 8.4% copper
75% gold / 9% silver / 16% copper
37.5 % gold / 20% silver / 42.5% copper

Which opens up the possibility that Tal is not actually a chromatic dragon ( :evil: ), but the result of some cross-species lovin' among different good metallic dragons ( :angel: ).

While in the former case, we could assume that Tal is currently impersonating a red dragon for some nefarious purpose, in the later case the reasons would be more complex. Possibly pink dragons, as non-purebreed metallics, have a hard time growing up among other metallics, and so Tal is impersonating an evil red as a way of acting out and exploring alternate identities...

But how either of these theories would explain the candy-floss / SPAM (candied SPAM?) breath weapon remains unknown...

That's actually my point. If they're good, then they should be called by a metallic name, as Bion suggested (though Alloy Dragon sounds a bit odd). But if they're neutral, like Taluntain, they would be gem dragons and would be called by a gem name. Which is why I still maintain my belief that Tal is a Ruby Dragon.

But if you persist in calling the species "pink", you must deal with the consequences of labeling them as chromatic, and therefore evil. :p

candied spam!! LMAO, and again, ew! lol

Maybe thats just what you get... or maybe Tal has fairy-dragon heritage, since pinks are related to them...

Ahh, but DxA has and interesting point, doesn't she Fel...

Why color *is* a fairy dragon, actually. Isn't it possible that some might be pink? And fairy dragons are of good alignment... Fairy dragons would work with the "candy" theme... perhaps not so much with SPAM as a processed meat (SPiced hAM), but it would work with SPAM as an internet term, as fairy dragons are iirc known for mischief and trickery (such as, to pull an example out of the air, changing peoples taglines when they aren't looking :shake: )

Plus, "fairies" like to dress up they say, and Tal is arguably dressing up as a red dragon atm (a transcolored dragon, perhaps?)

So, it's possible that Tal isn't a chromatic dragon of the pink variety, and therefore evil, but rather a fairy dragon who just happens to be pink, and therefore good with mischievous, chaotic tendancies...

Remember, Puff the Magic Dragon was purple, but that didn't make him an evil chromatic Purple Dragon: just a magic dragon that happened to be purple. So everyone sing after me: "Tal the Fairy Dragon lived by the Shores of Lethe..."

Spam is really a fruit!

@Ara: ROFL :lol:

This is probably the most bizarre discussion I've seen or heard. Ever. :nuts:

/me Wanders off, humming.

Tal the Fairy Dragon lived by the Shores of Lethe...

:lol:

Will a "Pink Dragon Disciple" T-Shirt ever appear in the SP Shop?

/singing along "Tal the fairy dragon..."

hehehehe I so love this thread. :D

Yes, that explains it perfectly... Tal is just pretending to be a Red Dragon with a bit of glamoury... :)

If PDD tshirts are sold in the SP store Ill be one of the first to buy one! ^_^

... with mischievous, chaotic tendancies... You just talked (typed) your way right out of that one. The one thing Tal isn't is chaotic; he was just tired of the chaos you were spreading, and he hoped it might shut you up to give you the title. ;) And Puff may have been purple, but so are Amethyst Dragons. :p

Fairy Dragons (CG) are classified as dragonets due to their miniscule size (about 1ft./30 cm long), as are Firedrakes (N) and Pseudodragons (N/NG). And while Fairy Dragons do change color as they age, pink does not come into the equation. (Red would incidentally mean a baby picture from its hatchling stage. :lol: ) The Fairy Dragon's breath weapon is a 2' (60cm) diameter cloud of euphoria gas; like Confusion but more benevolent.

Here's a chart for those who wonder about Fairy Dragons (from youngest to oldest).

Hatchling: Red
Very Young: Red-orange
Young: Orange
Juvenile: Orange-yellow (like the picture; MM/89)
Young Adult: Yellow
Adult: Yellow-green
Mature Adult: Green
Old: Blue-green
Very Old: Blue
Venerable: Blue-violet
Wyrm: Violet
Great Wyrm: Black

EDIT: Looking at my 2e MM, I've noticed a dragon that covers the entire rainbow all at the same time: the Cloud Dragon! (MM/81) They have a layered look not unlike one of those sand-glasses. (You know, those things you made in primary school by making layers of differently colored sand inside a glass.) They're Neutral in alignment, though all of their powers are environment and cloud-related; not terribly likely for a master of cyberspace.

So, in conclusion, RUBY!!! :D

[ September 08, 2005, 18:46: Message edited by: Felinoid ]

Methinks that Felinoid is a rules lawyer...

@DxA:
More semantics and being overly helpful. :grin: As a player I rarely question the DM's judgement (for example, if Tal were to make a ruling on the subject I would promptly shut up except to let people know about the ruling), but when other players say something that seems unknowledgable of the rules I try to correct them. Mostly I'm just outraged ( ;) ) at how everyone keeps implying that Tal is evil by calling him a chromatic name.

I think rubies make more sense because some rubies are lighter in color (almost pink), so it makes sense that a younger Ruby Dragon would look pink. His new deeper red color simply indicates that he's "grown up" into his powers. Then again, perhaps I do more research than is necessary. :shake:

Ah well if we want to gem-ify the pink dragons, then why not call them Rose Quartz, or there is Rubelite (pink tourmaline), theres also pink sapphires, rubies (as you mentioned), pink garnets, and there are other types of pink gems as well.

Well everyone seems to be agreeing with the cone of cottoncandy bit, and Tal hasnt refuted it...

But perhaps Fel's rules-lawyering has brought us some interesting new clues...

On one hand, I think Fel would have to agree that the rules book isn't exhaustive to the DnD universe, just as we still don't have anything near an exhaustive classification of species in RL (as only a tiny percentage of species have been classified). At the same time, taking the rule books as fundamentalist truth would limit the ability of a GM and RP group to customize their own play universe...

That being said:

The Fairy Dragon's breath weapon is a 2' (60cm) diameter cloud of euphoria gas; like Confusion but more benevolent. ...the Cloud Dragon! ... They're Neutral in alignment, though all of their powers are environment and cloud-related; not terribly likely for a master of cyberspace.I think Fel may have inadvertantly brought up an interesting argument: wouldn't it make sense that a "master of cyberspace" would actually have powers addressing an "environment"?

1) Cyberspace after all is a "space" and SP a "site", both clearly environmental terms.

2) The games covered on SP could all be refered to as "virtual environments."

3) While "cloud" is often used to refer to something unorganized and diffused, this might also be a more medieval understanding of the term; today the complexity of weather systems are more and more understood: that is, ordered. What would the medieval mind make of the networked complexity of the internet, for example? Isn't chaos theory something that deals with weather as much as information? Is it not possible to refer to "data clouds"?

I submit to you the possibility that cloud-like powers Fel describes as pertaining to the Fairy or Cloud dragons might actually be an accurate description of Tal's "cyberspace mastery"!

Beware the Pink Dragon's Cloud of SPAM!!! :mommy:

There are also pink diamonds (incredibly rare) and pink coral, but I was trying to incorporate the new "red" persona into the idea as well. I also figured I should start with the more "valuable" gems and jewels first before I got down to semi-precious and ornamental stones like quartz, so as to avoid offending our Grand Pubaa. :mommy:

Tourmaline isnt very cheap if I remember correctly...

And Bion is now obsessed with spam... *rolls her eyes*

Gotta go to work, be back later!

The burly warrior charged towards the pink dragon, his battle axe swinging in a deadly arc. Suddendly, his axe stopped like if it had hit a wall. His arms went limp and the axe hit the floor with a loud clank. The warrior didn't care he had nearly severed his toes. He couldn't stop looking at the most lovely, little furry thing he had never seen before. He only wanted to hug it and pet it. He had fallen victim of the most dreaded weapon of the pink dragons: the Aura of Cuteness!.

[ September 08, 2005, 20:24: Message edited by: Colthrun ]

Rhodochrosite (light pink): Ornamental (10gp base value)
Star Rose Quartz: Semi-Precious (50gp base value)
*Tourmaline (red): Fancy (100gp base value)
Pearl (rose): Fancy to Precious (100gp-500gp base value)
Fire Opal (fiery red): Gem (1,000gp base value)
*Ruby/Diamond: Jewel (5,000gp base value)

Tourmaline may not be cheap (100gp isn't something to laugh at), but rubies and diamonds are outright extravagant! :eek:

Consider also the five known gem dragon types (from strongest to weakest):
Amethyst: 100gp base (1,000 if it's oriental)
Sapphire: 1,000 gp base (5,000 if it's a star sapphire)
Emerald: 5,000gp base
Topaz: 500gp base
Crystal (Rock crystal): 50gp base

@ Colthrun: Behold the power of cute! (http://www.missmab.com/fanart/DMFA_Wallpaper14_1024.jpg)

(Courtesy of DMFA) ;)

You guys -- Tal's dragon is NOT pink. I suggest you all get your eyes checked. :p

Okay folks. PDD and pink dragons can be evil and cute - succubus/incubus are prime examples of said combo. :evil: :bigeyes: But remember; pink dragons might also be *stupid*. It's very possible they make white dragons look like PhDs.

As Tal is the only person who can confirm/deny the alignment and cuteness of a PDD, let's not get into a snipping contest over something that's not yet fact.

Guys, why are you trying to tie in 'Pink Dragon Disciple' with Tal - he merely bestowed this title upon -Bion-.

FWIW, I tend to agree with Fel on Tal's appearance, not the LE red dragon, but (N? LN?) ruby dragon.

Now, on the seperate subject of PDDs (and thus the pink dragons these characters are disciples thereof), I'd say a slight name modification is best - Pink Drake Disciple. A pink drake would be similar in size and temperment to a fairy dragon...further the aura of cuteness and candyfloss (cotton candy) breath weapon would make more sense. What - NG or CG? Heck, *I'd* wanna be a disciple of that sort of dragon! :D

Heresy!
Only the appointed prophet, Bion, shall speak about what the mighty pink dragon is, or is not! I will smite thee, infidels!

/me casts Destroy Knowledge about Jewels on Fellinoid
/me casts Pinkvision on Spellbound
/me casts Feeblemind on the female Swiss Army knife

Edit: Aha! I've been granted a pinkish jewel by the almighty pink dragon as recognition for my services.

/me casts Feeblemind on the female Swiss Army knife*yawn* Hmm? Something do something to me? Spell immunity is a wonderful thing. :evil:

/me calls forth two succubi

Go get him, girls. Mwuhahaha!

/me casts Destroy Knowledge about Jewels on Fellinoid Who's that? :p


Sometimes you wanna go
where half the people misspell your naaaaame...
:lol:

@Spelly and ae- the source of the mystery is that Tal was originally a pink dragon (btw, can anyone find a link to that original image?) before turning into an evil elf sorcerer, and subsequently transforming into an (allegedly) red dragon. No documentation could be found for transformations among the sourse literature. The mystery was only deepened by additional very recent and sudden transformations among members of a secret society only known as "SPS" (which I've heard from a reliable source stands for "Servants of the Pink Sorcerer").

What we know so far:

1) The identification of Tal as a "Sorcerer" is pretty well accepted, eliminating the theory that the Evil Elf Sorcerer (EES) was only the polymorphed humanoid form of a Pink Dragon. Most theories therefore revolve around the idea that the EES is the original, true Tal.

2) As Tal remains an EES, the Pink and Red Dragon forms must be the result of long study as an EES, whereby Tal has reached a high level of Dragon Discipleship of some kind. Most research on the subject now treats the question of what kind of Dragon Disciple this could be.

3) This is complicated by a) the fact that no dragon of pink hue exists in the literature, whether chromatic (evil), metallic (good), or gem (neutral); b) the mechanism of shifting from a pink to a red dragon does not exist in the literature; and c) Dragon Discipleship for such a creature also does not exist in the literature.

4) A further line of argument holds that Tal might actually be a Fairy Dragon or some other kind of dragonet (and indeed, we have no evidence as to the scale of Tal's dragon froms).

5) Many of the spell-like powers observed from Tal are under studied. Apparently, Tal has amassed far-reaching powers across his domain, causing one scholar to refer to him as a "master of cyberspace." Observered powers include: a) polymorphing avatars; b) various forms of telecommunication; c) creating, teleporting, and disintegrating posts; d) banishment; and e) domain construction (and destruction).

6) In attempting to categorize this new dragon, much attention has been given to determining the alignment of Tal, along both good/evil and law/chaos axes.

7) More subjectively, a parallel line of argument addresses the reported "innate cuteness" of the Pink Dragon form, holding that this quality must also be reflected in the other innate abilities typical to dragons.

8) Some have thought that I have special expertise in this subject due to my recent apparent transformation into a first level Pink Dragon Disciple. However, I must confess that I have no additional insight. I am still trying to determine whether this is a real transformation or merely a mirage; in either case, the solution lies seemingly beyond my ken, as the minds and plans of both elves and dragons are known to be subtle.

1) "The Sorcerer" could simply be a nickname bestowed upon him due to the extra-magical (technological) powers he has acquired. At any rate Sorcerer need not refer to a class, but even if it did, dragon PCs can have a class in addition to their racial coloring. (See the Council of Wyrms 2e boxed set for further details.)

2) predicated upon 1 (could be the other way around)

3b) Relating to my own Ruby Dragon theory, I believe I mentioned aging as a means of solidifying the reddish coloring over time.

4) That certainly might help with typing. :lol: One thing to note, however, is that dragonets are bereft of polymorphing capabilities. :(

5) :eek: I'm a scholar now? :hahaerr:

6) I thought most had accepted that Tal is LN, but I guess I could be mistaken.

7) IMO small = cute, big = awe-inspiring. IOW, dragonets might be cute, but it's hard to look at anything 10 times bigger than you and say "Awwww."

8) Feh, the powers of a first-level anything usually don't jump out at you anyway. Don't worry about it, I'm sure you'll be feeling evil in no time.

(I'm so helpful! :roll: )

*yawns* Im back... and I just finished reading the pages of this thread.

I say that Tal should come in and set us and the rules lawyers (*sticks her tongue out at Fel*) straight.

If Tal wants the pink dragons to be evil and horrendous, then they will be evil and horrendous and I will not say another word about it... I will also not be buying any PDD merchandise, because Im Chaotic Good (sometimes CN)... but anyway...

The Pink Substance of Your Choice Dragon has two known powers so far that have been documented: Aura of Cuteness, and Cone of Cottoncandy/floss. I think they would be better as Fairy Dragon types, since I dont think Ive ever heard of the normal sized dragons as familiars...

Oh, and Ill just express one last thing (for the moment). I dont believe that anywhere in teh books it says that the rules are unchangeable and set in mithral...

/me casts Destroy Knowledge about Jewels on FellinoidWho's that?
I shouldn't cast without wearing my glasses :p

Go get him, girls.I wish I heard that more often... :)

"Servants of the Pink Sorcerer"I'm still laughing at that one.

There is a perfectly logical ( :rolleyes: ) explanation about Tal's avatar. Tal is probably an epic-level pink dragon and, as such, it is quite possible that he already has access to epic spells. His avatar is only the picture of a summoned Dragon Knight that he uses to deal with his enemies and detractors.

Let's face it, powerful as pink dragons are, it's difficult to be respected when you look real cute and huggable.

[ September 09, 2005, 10:31: Message edited by: Colthrun ]

7) IMO small = cute, big = awe-inspiring. IOW, dragonets might be cute, but it's hard to look at anything 10 times bigger than you and say "Awwww."Adult bears are cute. Some snakes are cute. Certain whales are cute. And all these are bigger than me. Well, *I* think they're cute and, really, who wants to argue? :shake: :hahaerr:

@DxA - You're right about these 'rules' not being set in mithral/stone. They are merely 'guidelines' for those who wish to play the game. Changes can be made; just look at the 'Critical Hit' - started out as a 'house rule' and is now part-and-parcel of the milue.

I also believe that half the stuff in 3rd ed rules werent in 1st ed rules, so saying that pink dragons *have* to be evil becuase they are "pink" and therefore chromatic just doesnt matter... Just because they havent been written about in current literature doesnt mean anything. Fairy Dragons are called by colours but one one harps about how they should be evil because they are different colours and not metals or gems...

Oh and Kuemper, snakes arent bigger than you, unless youre like inches tall, they might be longer than you though. hehe.

Okay, first to DxA - sorry if we're spoiling your fun, but we're enjoying the cut and thrust of logical debate and deduction. :heh:


@Bion (and thus Fel, too)
1) Pink dragon -> Elf Sorcerer -> Red dragon? Hmmm; the 3.5 PHB has something to say about sorcerers and dragons:

Some sorcerers claim that the blood of dragons courses through their veins. That claim may be true in some cases - it is common knowledge that certain powerful dragons can take humanoid form and even have humanoid lovers, and it's difficult to prove that a given sorcerer does not have a dragon ancestor. It's true that sorcerers often have striking good looks, usually with a touch of the exotic that hints at an unusual heritage...Hmmmm....

2) if Tal is and EES, these dragon forms may just be a) illusions to mislead people and intimidate enemies, or b) the results of a polymorph or shapechange - looking at Tal's powers documented in later points, we would have to agree that he'd be an EES of epic level, and these spells would be available to him,

3) a) I cannot state on the original appearance, I was not present :( , b) Fel's got some interesting and logical (though not necessarily necessary) ideas on that, c) well, we only just know it exists now through you! :D

4) Well, again, since we can't nail down 3a - this point may be unrelated to Tal's *current* form - completely different forms taken through exceptional means (magic or...well see below :) )

5) Hmmm, alter forms of others irrevocably, communicate instantly with others in his domain, as well as alter or prevent public communication of others while in his domain, expulsion of ppl from his domain, and altering the domain itself? You know, there's an entity in D&D that fits all these powers, as well as having the ability to take whatever apparent form it wishes - DIETY

(I do not wish to offend anyone, but I'm keeping the discussion here to be analogous to the D&D millieu and rules therein, so...)

This leads to an alternate hypothesis: Tal is in fact a deity of indeterminate (inscrutable?) power that possesses a domain (hereafter referred to as "Sorcerer's Place" or 'SP') in the outer planes that is fully under his control, and we are merely welcome (and sometimes unwelcome) guests in his same domain. His ability to even control our communication between one another while in his domain and creation and destruction of parts of same at his will would tend to corroborate that...hmmmmmm..."Faaascinating" :D

6) Tal would be the only one who could confirm or deny anything, TBH, so nothing can be considered certain or accepted. Based on observed behaviour, I'd definitely say something lawful (one could say imbuing Bion with the PDD pres/cl could be chaotic, yet there may be an underlying *reason* for that same action... :hmm: ) and I'd lean towards neutrality on the good/evil axis - though Tal's benevolence and helpfulness at least make a point for LN...with G tendencies. But all this is conjecture...

7) again, all this discussion of pink dragons is - to me - unrealted to Tal since, as stated in 1) I have not seen Tal's previous form and cannot make any association between his previous form and what we are now discussing; as an unrelated form, I tend to agree with DxA's ideas tho...

8)Aye, you've only just started, so it's unfair to expect you to give us answers. And aye, the affairs of elves and dragons are subtle, and yet the actions of deities are even moreso... :cool:


Oh, and DxA? Regarding Tal's intervention on this discussion and making known the facts of the situation - sorry, but why would he? He's likely greatly enjoying listening in on the discussion! (I would be in his place :D )

Hmm.. Wouldn't the 'length' of a snake indeed be the 'height' of a snake, and the 'height' of a snake rather the 'width' of a snake? :p

That aside I have lured on this topic for some time now (quite humorous :D ). I think it's about damn time Tal stepped in and gave us some real insight on the whole sorcerer -> pink dagon/drake/draglete -> Red Dragon metamorphosis business, ne? I really don't care wether he's a faerie dragon, pseudo dragon or a real dragon. As long as he keeps that cone of cotton candy far, far away from me and my teeth :p

lol

I guess it depends on whether the length is on the ground, or hangning from a tree... height is vertical, width is horzontal, length is vertical too, so I guess i can be confusing. lol

Yes Tal, please come and edjumacte us! :D

Actually, that avatar was a pseudo dragon familiar (and pink only if you're colourblind). It also wasn't my original avatar. Your history doesn't go back far enough. And have I mentioned that you lot have too much time on your hands? :shake:

Only the true Pink Dragon denies its pinkiness!

Pink is in the eye(s) of the Beholder! :borg:

Wait, pseudodragons are familiars for LG & NG. Now I'm :confused: .
Your history doesn't go back far enough. Tell us of your past, Exalted One.
And have I mentioned that you lot have too much time on your hands? Rejoice! For our spare time keeps you in business. :xx:

Tell us of your past, Exalted One.In the words of DxA: Please edjumacte us :shake: (or was it edjumacate? Never mind oh glorious king of kings).

C'mon people! In order to get an answer, we must make an offering suitable for his Oh Mighty Greatness.

/me humbly places a Big Bag o' Shiny Gems on the altar

/me offers my newly aquired Tchazar gem "You can have it oh mighty lizard" :bigeyes:

*Silently whispers to DreamingxAshley* "We should sacrifice Kuemper as a tribute, think you not? ;) "

Yes! Yes we must!

/me places Felinoid on the altar

Please o mighty being, grant this peasant follower of yours the favor of devouring an infidel who has spoken great blasphemies of your church! :grin:

Hey! I whispered that :nono:

/me Casts deafness and silence on Eldular. "May the mighty smiter (know as tal) smite thee!"

/me casts Puff of Irritating Dander at Eldular and uses tail to free self

Beware the Claws of Vengeance, young one. :evil:

I got your back Fel! :thumb:
Now let's just all agree to sacrifice Kuemper. We have strength in our numbers, and I believe he'll be an fitting tribute.

:nono: No sacrificing board members.

@olimikrig:
:lol: :lol: :lol: How do you look at that avatar and say "he"!?! :lol: :lol: :lol:

He's a magical beast, worthy of sacrifice. :p

Beware the Claws of Vengeance, young one.Next you'll be calling me your padwan, or? :lol:

@olimikrig:
:lol: My point is that kuemper is a "she", not a "he". I would have thought the giant torpedos on her chest would have tipped you off. :hahaerr:

@Fel:
:lol: hrm. Well. That's a pretty darn good point you got there :lol: :rolling:

O_o;; I didnt know that kuemper was a she... and those avatars really arent that clear. Or maybe I just need a better monitor.

/me activates telekinesis and comprehend languages

Ahem. Olimikrig? I can hear everything you say. And since I can't be surprised and wish to save my better powers for later, I lash at you with my tail.

/me constricts the magma golem

@Fel - Well, it's not like I have an SPS account or anything. :lol:

Please leave my 'points' outta this! :mommy: :spin:

Ahem. Olimikrig? I can hear everything you say. And since I can't be surprised and wish to save my better powers for later, I lash at you with my tail.No. It can nay be that. Eldular must've used foul magic to break the spells so he could inform thee of mine evil schemes.

/me places Felinoid on the altarI'm gone for half a day, and this thread becomes a human sacrifice cult :eek:

Actually, that avatar was a pseudo dragon familiarAnd the mystery deepens. I'm sure Fel can tell us more about the canon characteristics of Pseudodragons, but it's quite obvious that Tal's power far exceeds these in power...

So while "psuedo dragon" here might refer to an actual canon Psuedodragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/pseudodragon.htm), it seems to me that we should also dwell on the crucial space between the two words Tal has given us "psuedo" and "dragon"...

The word "psuedo," of course, derives from the Greek: "psuedes" meaning "false" or "psuedein" meaning "to decieve." So while we might want to jump to the conclusion that Tal is referring to a known being of the DnD world, we should also be wary of a very clear double message in Tal's cryptic statement: the "false" dragon, the heavy hint of "deception."

Thus, when Tal subsequently remarks:

(and pink only if you're colourblind)We cannot help but look for hidden meaning. The English word "blind" has it's roots in both the German work "blenden" meaning not only "to blind" but also "to dazzle," with an overtone of "to deceive," along with the Middle English word "blenden" (derived from the Old English "blendan" and the Old Norse "blanda") meaning "to mix." And so, when Tal says "colourblind" he is not refering to a simple physical inability to see colors, but rather to a yet-unknown condition whereby colour dazzles and decieves through some kind of alchemical mixture.

Thus, to be "colourblind" refers not to an inability to see, but rather an enlightened state, perhaps known only to an inner circle within the Servants of the Pink Sorcerer, whereby Tal's true pink nature is known.

The Eye is Blind! so to speak.

If anything should be clear to us at this stage, it's that we should never underestimate the subtlety of Tal's mind: we must be prepared to find schemes within schemes within schemes...

Woa Bion. and you think we're the ones who're :nuts: :lol:

the word blanda hasn't really changed that much throughout the ages. Only the last 'a' has been replaced with an 'e' so its not blande ;)

I still say we might unvocer this whole mess somewhat quicker if we sacrifice a living beeing to please the allmighty :p

/me sharpens my ritual dagger

"You just keep us informed on those schemes within schemes, Bion. Me, I'm going to have a little 'chat' with Kuemper"

:eek: Whoa, would you look at the time! <gestures at Tommy Hilfiger watches> Is it late o'clock already? :idea:

/me hides in the Abyss

As the only active partcipant in this discussion with an SPS account, I feel it only fair to warn you that a decision has been reached.
Any BoM member caught sacrificing another will never be allowed into the SPS Private Forum, and may even be subject to additional punishment if deemed by the board moderators. (That sounds about right. Yes, that should do nicely.) Ahem. So no sacrificing! :nono:

/me lover his head in shame :o

Can you forgive me? :bigeyes:

I've put my original avatar in my profile, since I had a blank in the picture field anyway.

Well there goes my Ruby Dragon theory. :( Oh well, at least I won't have to feel bad about slaughtering the ones in FF8 (if I ever get tired of BG...nope, not happening).

So:
-Tal is a sorcerer (established)
-the "pink dragon" was actually his pseudodragon familiar (established)
-alignment based on that would be any non-evil (based on preferences of pseudodragons), or between LG & NG (based on BGII)
-red dragon avatar is as yet unexplained

@Fel - I agree with all. As for Tal's new red dragon pic, maybe he just learned Polymorph Self and is testing it out? Or he could be finishing his RDD prestige class and is now the apothesis of a red(ish) dragon.

@Bion:
Thus, when Tal subsequently remarks:

(and pink only if you're colourblind)
We cannot help but look for hidden meaning:rolleyes: I dunno about anyone else, but I for one CAN help! ;)

@Olim - she's an *outsider* with telepathy (as well as confusion between this ability and telekenisis...) your whispering may as well have been right into her ear ;)

/me looks at the marilith leave this extraplanar realm of SP back to her home in the Abyss

Great...there's only 666 of them; Right, see you this time next year! :p

/me trudges off to go find one soldier in the midst of a multi-planar battle between Tanar'ri and Baatezu...sigh.

Then it was she who used foul magic. all-in-all it's the same. What do I know? I'm just a stupid golem.

@Olim - aye, it still has the same result.

/me thinks upon a search through the Blood Wars with some trepedation...

And don't sell yourself short; you far more sentient than most golems-

/me distractedly pats Olim on shoulder for a moment then starts blowing on singed hand...

/me joyfully hymns Tal the fairy Dragon

:nuts: this threat is going nuts

And what about that theory that Tal's a Deity over the plane of Sorcerers?

Maybe Bion, that you are indeed a pink dragon disciple, but a disciple of Tal's Pink Pseudodragon. If Tal got godhood, (the theory of the Plane of Sorcerer's Place) then his familiar must've got full dragonhood. Or Tal merely granted it full dragonhood. It make sense now doesn't it?

So who shall be the High Cleric of the God Tal? :pope:
:)

Hmm, when I check Tal's profile, I just see the current avatar and a white-haired IE mage paperdoll in red robes...


-Tal is a sorcerer (established)
-the "pink dragon" was actually his pseudodragon familiar (established)
-alignment based on that would be any non-evil (based on preferences of pseudodragons), or between LG & NG (based on BGII)
-red dragon avatar is as yet unexplainedWhile I agree that Tal almost certainly has sorcerous powers, I don't at all agree that the pseudodragon is a familiar (and so I also can't agree that it sheds any light on Tal's true alignment).

This is not only for the reasons above, where I think any sufficiently sophisticated hermeneutics would have to emphasize the repeated hints of falsity and deception. Why would Tal use his familiar as an avatar? No, it seems to me pretty clear that the "psuedo" dragon is simply another manifestation of Tal himself, another set of clues for to approach an understanding of Tal in all his pink glory...

@Bion:
From Taluntain himself:
Actually, that avatar was a pseudo dragon familiar (and pink only if you're colourblind). It also wasn't my original avatar. Maybe he had just acquired his familiar and was so proud of its cuteness that he had to show it off. Whatever his reason, he outright said that it was a familiar, and that's good enough for me. :p
:idea: Pseudodragons are red-brown in color, so with an adequately crappy digital camera and some blurring from movement it might have looked almost pinkish. But now that Tal has managed to get a better digital camera and convinced his familiar to pose for it, perhaps now we're just getting a better look at it (notice that there are no points of reference for size).

No, no, no, no! Do you not see it, Felinoid? He is just trying to shut us up, because he fear we might unvocer the real truth: he wants to dominate the world, with SP as his base! As all Dragons (especially pink ones!), he lust for power and riches...

I've got a sketch of how he might look. It's created from some of the various thoughts posted in this thread. Have a look! (http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload1/pink_dragon.jpg) :lol:

@Fel: note: "a pseudo_dragon familiar", not "my pseudodragon familiar"...

@olim: :shake:

@Olim: Indeed quite fearsome. :lol:

@Olim: The finishing touch for this dread creature was the mouth but where is the tin of Spam ?

I think it's safe for me to come back now I'vw realised my aura of fear negates his cute aura so we can just chat to each draco o draco

@Olim: The finishing touch for this dread creature was the mouth but where is the tin of Spam ?:heh: I couldn't add everything 'ya know ;)
Also thought about adding a cone of cotton candy, but concluded that there would be too much pink in it :lol:
Anyways, I'm pretty sure that Tal would agree that this pic resembles his pink dragon form pretty well :shake: , no?

Aura of Fear and Aura of Cuteness I dont think really cancel each other out... maybe if you had Aura of Horror, then they would... but Im not sure... >_>

No Aura of Uglyness would negate an Aura of Cuteness. It's an aura of Courage that would negate an aura of fear.

Yes that would do it. It would be like two Medusas in a staring contest, neither would turn to stone, they would just get knocked unconscious. lol

I just had a giggle-fit over my imaginings on this one: Can you imagine two Pink SOYC* Dragons in a Aura of Cuteness face-off? lmao.

They would get so ridiculously cute to onlookers that it would drive a person temporarily insane. hehehe

*SYOC: Substance of Your Choice.

Indeed, mein dame

Imagine this scene:

Melvin: Hello, Sofia
Sofia: Hello, eh where's Tomas?
Melvin: Oh! You wouldn't believe it!
Sofia: Tell me anyway
Melvin: We encountered THREE dragons, Alas Tomas didn't make it.
Sofia: Three dragons?! My gods the poor lad, what did they breath fire at him?
Melvin: Well, no. Two fired cotton candy and the other one SPAM. Then Tomas was glued to the spot, he just died. I think he died of overwhelming cuteness
Sofia: What kind of Dragon have that kind of.... of...power?
Melvin: Why, Pink Dragons!

roflmao.

:heh: hehe. Ofelix, you're :nuts:

Olimikrig, Well well I am crazy ain't it? Well That's somthing. In case you didn't know mister Golem, You are the one who are talking to a gem :) :D :grin: :lol: So who's the more crazy?

As stated earlier: I'm just a stupid golem. What do I know? :lol: :lol: :lol:

@Bion:
But why would he show us someone else's familiar? That just doesn't make sense.

The things I've seen on SP...talking gems are the least :nuts: things around.

Does it bother you that that this threat has more none sense and crazyness than RBBs? And that this one is 107 post long? It can only mean one thing; We have too much, much time in our hand, and it's wrongly used. So sayeth THE Ofelix, the talkative gem

You're worried about having too much time on *your* hands? You're a freakin' gem! Look at me: six hands! Aside from keeping the lesser demons in line. I have nothing to keep me occupied.

@Ofelix - hey, one gem to another - the magma man there probably looks upon us as kin, you realize. :)

@Bion where I think any sufficiently sophisticated hermeneutics would have to emphasize the repeated hints of falsity and deception. Okay, while I pride myself on an excessively verbose, loquacious and sesquipedal vocabulary, even I have to stop and say:

WTF?!?

{takes a few moments to throw a new word into the ol' online dictionary...}

Huh. "the study of the methodological principles of interpretation (as of the Bible)" Okay, but use of the word 'falsity' is completely unnecessary with the perfectly adequate 'falsehood' available; to pull an obscure piece of diction out would indicate...


:eek: :idea:

OMG. I can't believe I didn't see it sooner - my stint as "Chair of the Committee for Conspiracy, Confusion, Disinformation, Misdirection and Generally Keeping People in the Dark" (hereafter referred to a little more conveniently as "CfCCDM&GKTPITD") should have made me notice a filibuster tactic!

Everyone - Bion's a shill - a plant; he's just trying to mislead us and delay any real deduction about this topic!!! Oh, and soylent green is people! People - do you understand?!? And "To Serve Man" is a cook book!!!

;)

Anyway, I seriously think there's collusion to sidetrack Fel's investigation into these things...probably the same level of seriousness as how Terry Pratchett deals with questions on the lack of continuity with his continuing novel series. :lol:

Ow...now my throat hurts from all that frenzied yelling...

/me wanders off in search of a soothing throat lozenge.

OKay yeaaahhh this is crazy... Bion a plant ?!

Indeed little gem you have much to learn about conspiracy... :)

Indeed Olimikrig might thought us as kin OR Food...

THE Ofelix, the talkative gem (tm) hide away from the potentiel threat that is Olimikrig. :mommy:

Not potential, I AM a thread :p
Remeber that I even tried to sacrifice Kuemper :lol: (untill grumpy 'ol Fel spoiled my fun :cry: )

You guys seriously need to look in the mirror! :mommy:

:eek: Does this mean taht we're ALLL turning into pink dragons?!

I was thinking more of getting a reality check. :)

I'm not. :p

It would be a shame to wreck such a fine mirror

Who's got a check for me? :roll:

I was thinking more of getting a reality check. Now why would I want a reality check I've gone from having an aura of fear to an aura of ugliness; no sin committed there. But I've also got over my fear of pink dragons and that's definitely :cool:

In reality I'd still be afraid of pink dragons !!

Take just one more more peek at my Pink Dragon Sketch, and you'd be scared :p

@ Arabwel: Only if you chooses to join the Pink Dragon Disciples. However there is a loong way from being a lvl 1 pink dragon disciple, and to being able to polymorph at will and shoot SPAM/cone of cottoncandy!

@Spellbound: Reality? Oh, yeah - the life of misery I come here to GET AWAY FROM. :p

Misery is in the eye of the beholder, I think. :p

:nuts: next she be talking to gems :lol:

Hey what's wrong with talking gem?

Mine worth a decent loot too. And don't you dare selling me to the adventure mart! Silly! I am THE Ofelix, the one of many and only ofelix-ish talking gem (tm).

Bleh, Mmm a gem Pink dragon disciple now that would be something...

Anyhow shouldn't we be back in some sort of conspiracy now?

Bah, you wanna talk conspiracy, the paranoids would think that Spellbound was some kinda 'MiB' trying to shut us up. :rolleyes: <j/k>

But I'm more interested getting back to what we were discussing - the potential pink dragon (and its subsequent desciple prestige class), even irrespective of Tal.

So we'd gotten two possibilities:

a) a 'drake' kind of dragon - small/tiny size, candyfloss breath weapon, Aura of Cuteness (pat. pending) and overall something of one of the good aligns...and

b) a neutral gem dragon of full size....hmm opal, coral, agate of the right hue, maybe? Breath weapon vacilating between potted meat and the aforementioned candyfloss (some drags do have multi BWs...hmm) Dunno if the Aura of Cuteness would hold....hmm; I'd say this type would be CN

And of course, there's no reason why BOTH cannot exist...the former would resemble a pseudodragon but clearly of pink hue, and prob CG (it's the playfulness of a cotton candy BW that's getting to me)

Meanwhile the latter would be a full-sized gem dragon, just as playful, but a little more dangerous (ever smother in SPAM[tm]?)
:idea: OOooh! and to carry the above alternate B/W a little further; it's spells are primarily illusions, and a spell-like ability would be to 'bombard with irrelevant communication' (the *other* type of 'spam' :D )

Outta this, I'd have to say the Disciple would be following the latter, to be honest...

So how's that for a rainy Sunday morning's cogitation?

Yay! Back on subject; thanks AE. :thumb:

How about BOTH breath weapons? True metallic dragons get two breath weapons: one that does damage (spam can [make you sick / hurt your eyes], depending on which kind) and one that has a disabling effect (candyfloss Web). If anyone can find a pink metal (with its own specific name), this could actually work!

[ September 11, 2005, 18:15: Message edited by: Felinoid ]

Why not just create a pink metal? After all we're talking about a creature in a fantasy world :p

Faerun miners have just discovered a new type of metal with a pink hue to it. Reports of its public showing say that all the women who saw it wanted jewelry made from that specific ore. No one has discovered any magical properties of it yet, but it does seem to be a variant of Mithril, and so the miners named it "Pithril"; short for Pink Mithril.

:D

There, now we have our pink metal for our pink metallics. ;) hehehe

indeed This is true (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=planetfargobarbariansatthegate.jpg)

*Ouww*

All hail the legendary Pithril Armour of ugliness(tm).

Properties:

AC bonus: +9 (Better, Ofelix? :p )
Special properties
Aura of Ugliness when equipped.
Can cast toothpaste 5 times per day (Negates Cone of Cottoncandy).
Saves vs. breath wepons +3/additional +4 vs. the dreaded Cone of Cottoncandy.

If pollished daily with Malukas oil of anti-SPAM(yes, it's also a TM) it protects the wearer agianst all SPAM (and some SPAM-like) substances..

[ September 11, 2005, 20:21: Message edited by: olimikrig ]

What +15 AC is overpowered, that would make it a +7 Full plate mate... Wow I never realized the power of pink was such.


And what about the Pithril shield of conton candy reversal? (tm)

Pithril Bastard Sword +1
Special Properties: 15% chance of causing cottoncandy induced damage to all metal on the target.

Pithril Arrows of Cottoncandy
Special Properties: Causes web-like holding of the target (but messier)
Also acts as a +1 enchanted weapon for striking magical creatures.

Cursed Field Armour of Pithril +4
Once worn, the victim cannot remove it except with a Remove Curse spell. It ws created by a gnome with a warped sense of humour. When ever the wearer is struck by an opponent, there is a 10% chance that the wearer will have Aura of Cuteness cast upon herself.

:D :D

herself.*herm*

or himself :p

:eek: Good heavens, people! You've barely just created this dragon and all you can talk about is how you're going to carve it up and make magical items out of it!?! :flaming: How can you think of harming such a cute, marvelous, and good (CG I'm assuming) creature!!! I'll listen to no more of this kind of talk; goodbye!
.
.
.
.
.
.
;)

:p yourself... I wrote it like that because I get tired of RPG books only refering to PC characters as him, like girls dont play such games... Although D&D and certain others have been getting better at switching pronouns. ;)

Felinoid: I was referring to the metal, not the dragon... I wouldnt harm such a creature myself.

But why would he show us someone else's familiar? That just doesn't make sense. But the (alleged) "psuedo" dragon familiar *must* be Tal. Aren't the other two avatars, the Evil Elf Sorcerer and the (allegedly) red(dish) dragon, universally considered to be manifestations of Tal? Why would he suddenly choose a non-Tal manifestation to stand in for himself; it's completely against character. Or perhaps you think, say, the (alleged) red(dish) dragon is one he just happened to snip out of the magazine, and Evil Elf Sorcerer is just a bloke he met at a pub?

No, the only logical solution is that Tal was at one point, in fact, before revealing his EES and (alleged) RD manifestations, in some kind of pink "psuedo" dragon form.

I agree that this sort of thing doesn't exist in the literature. But I think we're dealing with a truly singular occurance here...

We have too much, much time in our hand, and it's wrongly used.Come on, this is serious. People go about they're day to day lives on SP, posting all sorts of random stuff all day long on the RBP threads (check out Fel's research on that), without any idea of the hidden plots and intrigue behind SP. At least here we're beginning to unravel Tal's tangled web. The truth is out there!

but use of the word 'falsity' is completely unnecessary with the perfectly adequate 'falsehood' availableWhile "falsity" and "falsehood" can mean the same thing, falsity implies more of general "condition or quality of being false," while falsehood implies more of a specific instance of being false, as in a single false statement, belief, or theory. As the "Pink Sorcerer" remains shrouded in mystery, and as we are nowhere near having any established facts in this case, my point was to emphasize a more generalized sense of deception. So I stand behind my word choice in this case.

Bion's a shill - a plantOh, come now, my poor naive andar gem. You have only begun to peel back the layers of truth from the giant onion of SP. Don't go too deep, or it might make you cry! Truth?! You can't handle the truth!

If anyone can find a pink metalWhy must it be a pure pink metal? Pithril?!? :rolleyes:

Can we not yet see that the essense of Tal's power lies in mixture and combination?

Have you not known sacred truth that it is in the very nature of the Sorcerer to be a mix; and what is more a mix of dragonkind?

Have you not read the words of Tal himself (to paraphrase):

only the eye that is blind to colour may apprehend me in all my pink gloryThat Tal's power lies in the blended/blinded nature of that which is pink (may it's color every be praised).

Pink, which may only be a mixture, an alchemical composite: a combination which brings only deception!

What kind of dragonic miscegenation has brought the Pink Sorcerer unto us?

Pink, which in the chromatic scale is the blending of Red, the color of blood and fire, and White, the color of Ice and itself the mixture of all colors together!

Pink, which in the metallic scale may be found from the blending of copper with silver, gold and platinum: the alloy of all the coin in the realm!

Just as for the ancients, the false lead-ore known as pitchblende symbolized deception; so the blended/blinded coin of Tal's realm could only be Pink.

Pink, like the ephemeral candy-floss that dissolves in your mouth leaving only cloying sweetness and stained tongue!

Pink, like the cubed meat of mystery and the language of our land, which fills our stomach and networks alike to the bursting point: SPAM!

Brothers and sisters, can you not see how Pink runs like a current through all things?

Those who do not see as other's see, let them be blinded by the pink!

You have a problem with my idea for Pithril? Id like you to think up a better name if you can, otherwise keep your yap shut. :p :p :p

Pink, which in the metallic scale may be found from the blending of copper with silver, gold and platinum: the alloy of all the coin in the realm!
So Tal is everything and nothing at the same time. He can be weak (copper) aand powerful (platinium) (If we use the scale of worth of the realm's coin). That would make him omnipotent indeed, to fake weakness and breed true power.

Pink, which in the chromatic scale is the blending of Red, the color of blood and fire, and White, the color of Ice and itself the mixture of all colors together!
So Tal is... Light, as colours are in fact light, only a mixture of ALL colours (white) and red, huummm a redish-all colours, Red light . And if he use it as a tool of war we can only assume a Red Lightsaber thus revealing his evil nature.

@DxA:
Oh, okay then. :D

@Bion:
:hmm: Sounds like ASD (autism spectrum disorder); you needn't fear the pink! In the meantime:

Pithril Muzzle
Sure you can't talk, but at least you look cute! :lol:

P.S. I knew it! Tal is in fact the offspring of the platinum dragon Paladine (DragonLance god) and a regular copper female. That makes him a demi-god not unlike Hercules.

Black is what you get when you mix all colours to gether. White is the absence of colour.

And pithril, being a variant of Mithril, is obviously not a pure metal, if you thought it over (bion). Its most likely has copper and gold in the mixture. Or it might be a metal like electrum which is what you get when silver and gold are fused together by lightning. ;)

Black is what you get when you mix all colours to gether. White is the absence of colour. That only applies if you are mixing paint. The opposite applies with light.

Bion, have you ever even seen Tal's pseudodragon avatar? :p

White is either/both the light that blinds and the stripping away of the opacity/stain of pigment.

Pink is the absense/presense of all colour blended/blinded by blood/fire.

Remember the Legion of the Chimera!

Long Live the Pink Sorcerer!

@Bion -
But the (alleged) "psuedo" dragon familiar *must* be Tal.Why? *I'm* certainly not an andar gem (my wife woulda hocked me for money by now if I was); in the system of SP (if I have interpreted correctly) the andar gem merely represents my worth as a poster here (based on the more posts I make that AREN'T filtered out/blocked by the admins as breaking rules, the more things of value I am likely to say thanks to the Law of Averages :) )

Further, this avatar is NO LONGER USED to represent Tal; by your own statement, if the avatar must represent the person, wouldn't the cessation of its use imply it no longer validly represents the person? Or to be brief, "Not anymore."

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Aren't the other two avatars, the Evil Elf Sorcerer and the (allegedly) red(dish) dragon, universally considered to be manifestations of Tal?:hmm: "Universally considered to be manifestations of Tal" by WHOM? I don't recall anyone asking me - I was never polled. Careful with the conclusion-jumping there, dear friend, it's a long way down if you slip... :mommy:

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Why would he suddenly choose a non-Tal manifestation to stand in for himself; it's completely against character. Or perhaps you think, say, the (alleged) red(dish) dragon is one he just happened to snip out of the magazine, and Evil Elf Sorcerer is just a bloke he met at a pub?*shrug* That explanation sounds as plausible, to be honest. The only one who can prove or disprove any rationale or accuracy in representation behind Tal's choice of avatars (waitamin - 'choice of avatars'; I'm gonna like that particular phrase... :D ) is Tal. And methinks our gracious host is a) too busy, and b) having far too much fun if he does have to the time to merely *read* this thread to bring it to an end with conclusive proof one way or the other. *happy*shrug*

So you just keep on making assumptions (about things 'universally accepted' or things 'we are unanimous about') and I'll just keep on poking holes in the weak spots for ya!

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And before you carry on from your "only logical solution" about Tal's representations, let's just nail down the logic first, huh?

Per Merriam-Webster:
Logic: n. 1 a (1) : a science that deals with the principles and criteria of validity of inference and demonstration : the science of the formal principles of reasoning

(2) : a branch or variety of logic <modal logic> <Boolean logic> (3) : a branch of semiotic; especially : SYNTACTICS (4) : the formal principles of a branch of knowledge b (1) : a particular mode of reasoning viewed as valid or faulty (2) : RELEVANCE, PROPRIETY c : interrelation or sequence of facts or events when seen as inevitable or predictable d : the arrangement of circuit elements (as in a computer) needed for computation; also : the circuits themselves
2 : something that forces a decision apart from or in opposition to reason <the logic of war>And I included everything besides 1a1 for a sense of completeness - the part in italics is what I wanna focus on: the validity of inference and demonstration In short, 'prove it - make a sensible argument to me and show me'.

In relavance to this discussion, before I'll let you use the term 'logical' to modify your conclusion, I'd like a demonstration of its validity - if you can show me the "pseudo dragon" avatar (since I was never around to see it first-run :( ) and get me to agree that it even looks pink, we'll then get into the inference part of the conclusion...

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While "falsity" and "falsehood" can mean the same thing, falsity implies more of general "condition or quality of being false," while falsehood implies more of a specific instance of being false, as in a single false statement, belief, or theoryActually, upon reference to Merriam-Webster's site - the above bears out '-hood' is more an instance, while '-ity' is more a quality. I concede the point, apologize for the interruption, and beg you to pray continue.

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Have you not read the words of Tal himself (to paraphrase):

not really a quote:
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only the eye that is blind to colour may apprehend me in all my pink glory
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------*sigh* Tis'a shame; you were doing so well up to now. :( You're attempting to infer something from Tal's unaltered statement -
(and pink only if you're colourblind)- that is the OPPOSITE to what I infer. I believe Tal was stating the pseudo dragon avatar was NOT pink, nor was it intended to appear pink, and only other peoples' misinterpretation of the same avatar led to this whole 'pink pseudo dragon avatar' business to begin with. That may well have been an opinion on his part, and I may disagree with same statement upon scrutiny of the same avatar, BUT, I cannot logically infer the conclusion that YOU are attempting jump to.

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Pink, like the ephemeral candy-floss that dissolves in your mouth leaving only cloying sweetness and stained tongue!Should I even bring up the blue, green, or orange stuff I've seen at midways?


But I will say Pink[tm] is in my walls and ceiling keeping me warm; thanks, Owens Corning. :D

Anyway, if Bion's gonna continue to act like Fox Mulder, I guess I'm stuck in the role of Dana Scully *shrug* so be it.

...tho I dunno if the skirts are really a good idea with my legs... :toofar:


EDIT: and now I've gotta go over to that 'what song's stuck in your head' thread in Whatnots about this (http://www.high-tech.com/panther/archive/panther.au)

@AE:
Point 1 - Have you ever tried to spontaneously morph into a dragon? ... Did it work? I didn't think so. We must attempt to explain the baffling and extreme changes to the appearance of Tal so that we might better understand him and avoid his wrath. ;)

Point 2 - "Universally considered to be manifestations of Tal" by those of us familiar with the avatar system. Would you really pick an avatar that didn't resemble you in any way? (Be it physical, mental, or spiritual.)

Point 3 - Yeah, I doubt he'll throw us much more than tidbits to keep it going. :grin:

Point 4 - Only Tal has access to it AFAIK.

Point 6 - I get the feeling that it did look a little pink, but wasn't supposed to. Thus Tal, knowing what it really looked like, would be biased toward the intended look, which I imagine was really more like his current avatar.

Point 7 - You may need to sharpen your pencil; your point's a little dull. :lol: The default color of cotton candy is pink (at least in my part of the world :hmm: ).

not really a quote:Sez you. :shake:

@Bion:
Sez everyone who knows that Tal would never utter the words "in all my pink glory" when he doesn't think it looked pink in the first place. :rolleyes:

Honestly, it looked pink, but if I hadn't known what it was I wouldn't have guesed it on my own. But who really cares if it was pink or if it were green or even if it was an ever changing rainbow of colours, if you like it, its a good choice for an avatar. There are just so many similarities between myself and a lim-lim.

Oh yeah, and I have it (the avatar picture), if anyone would like to see it. But only with Tal's permission, of course.

Point 2 - "Universally considered to be manifestations of Tal" by those of us familiar with the avatar system. Would you really pick an avatar that didn't resemble you in any way? (Be it physical, mental, or spiritual.) Yes; my current avatar does not resemble me physically, mentally or spiritually.

Tal's reasons for choosing his various avatars are unknown. Maybe even unknown to him.

This thread is crazy and I bet Tal is enjoying it. :roll:

Yes its quite funny, especially because some people are taking it so seriously. lol

I have had some time to think about this discussion during the weekend (yep, my life is that boring... :D ) and I think we overlooked an important fact. The majority here agrees that Tal's pseudo dragon avatar was indeed pink, and that the current one has a pinkish hue.

Wouldn't it be possible that Taluntain himself is colourblind, and oblivious of his own pinkness? I mean, come on, have you looked at the mismatch of colours of his previous avatar's outfit? :p

@ Colthrun: I don't see any pinkish hue on his current avatar :p

You must not use the eyes of the body, Grasshopper, but those of the mind.
:hippy:

Curiously, I looked up 'color-blind' in Merriam-Webster and found the following as the first definition of the word:

1 : affected with partial or total inability to distinguish one or more chromatic colors:eek:

I know it maybe hard to swallow, but Fel's 'rules lawyer' point-making is starting to sound promising. :lol: Would it be (bad pun alert!) conceiveable for a red and white dragon to have a hatchling together?

conceiveable for a red and white dragon to have a hatchling together?You now waht, I've actually thought about that possibility myself... It would seem more logical than pithril(tm) anyways.

Hmmmm - interbreeding good question.

MM3.5 unforturnately doesn't say much on draconic society apart from that even fellow metallic or chromatic breeds don't interract much. I'm gonna go see if I can find anything like the 'draconomicon' s/c book that a friend had back in 2e...

I really can't see why we should be forced to follow the excact word of the manuals! I mean, they're mere guidelines, nothing more.

I still dont see why you guys are wrinkling your noses at pithril... and whats so illogical about it anyway? Im mean we have dragons that are so massive that they shouldnt be flying, but yet they are...

Im mean we have dragons that are so massive that they shouldnt be flying, but yet they areArh, but they flow only by the forces of magic! Magic is quite logical, I assure you :nuts:

still dont see why you guys are wrinkling your noses at pithril... and whats so illogical about it anywayTo tell the truth, nothing really. I'm just tired of all that 'metallic-dragon' crap. All I want is a pink dragon, with a cone of cottoncandy and a SPAM attack. And I don't give a flying sh** if you choose to call it a gem, metal, or even a Oak dragon. Youst as long as it has the above mentioned abilities :p

Dragons aren't as dense (weight-wise) as they look. They prefer soaring off cliffs and other high places to catch the up drafts; like most birds.

As for this metal crap, it's confusing the issue. Nothing says our pink dragon has to fall into any color category! :shake: 'Metallic' dragons have 2 weapons and since we want a cone of cotton candy and SPAM...

@Olim - I'm with you. The only thing stopping a pink dragon is only a couple of us can agree on what we should have.

Never the less, it does seem that more than a few of us have agreed that Pithril does exist... look at the items already invented! hehe.

I just dont like this if its coloured it has to be evil because thats what the book says! I thought dragons were sentient creatures... sentient creatures have free will. So they shouldnt have set alignments at all. White dragons I can see being evil only, because they are about as dumb as a bag of rocks apparently... but the others seem pretty intelligent.

Agreed Ashley! So screw the book.

Yes Pithril does exist. If it didn't we wouldn't have our Pithril Armour of Ugliness(tm)..,

@Olim - I'm with you. The only thing stopping a pink dragon is only a couple of us can agree on what we should have.So... Let's just agree, to agree, that a couple of us agree on that Pink Dragons do exist ;)

Um, it's called Dungeons & Dragons for a reason; these creatures are integral to the game itself.

There's no disputing it; the behavoural nature of true dragons is fundamental to D&D - chromatic dragons are "Always evil" and metallic dragons are "Always [insert l/c axis] good".

And further, DxA, you yourself avoided the whole chromatic/evil issue with your useful discovery of Pithril, thus allowing a pink-metallic dragon of good alignment (I'm thinking CG would fit it best). This also settles the issue choosing between two different breath weapons since metallic dragons have two.

And to both you and Olim: why do we have to throw out the [i]rules when - with just a little ingenuity - we can adapt our creation to utilize them?

But I've been working on a rundown of the Pithril Dragon; should have a writeup later today, thanks to the assistance I'm getting/providing... :D

bah :p

I noticed how confusing what I said sounds:

As for this metal crap, it's confusing the issue.What I meant and didn't bother to type down was why does a metal (pithral) need to exist in order to have a pink dragon?

Okay, I know y'all don't want to hear this, but I have to get this out:

The rules are the rules; you're right in that the DM can throw out whatever they decide for a specific game - they are the final arbiter in that game - but the rules will persist for D&D in general.
(I once dm'ed a campaign that NEVER had a random encounter - everything was either location-based or time-based; but rules on random encounters still exist)

So monster alignments are something we have to work WITH. You can just up and say you don't care, but that's not gonna get your Pithril dragon accepted by others who use the rules. (And if you don't want that why post here?)

When it comes to true dragons, they fall under the 'ALWAYS' qualifier for alignment (Gold Dragon - always LG, Black - always CE, etc.) in that these creatures are BORN with the alignment. "The creature may have a hereditary predisposition to the alignment or come from a plane that predetermines it. It is possible for individuals to change alignment, but such individuals are either unique or rare exceptions."

In short, a true dragon is a magical creature that - though sentient - has less free will than a typical player-character race.

If I were DM'ing a campaign, I would allow the possibility of rearing a dragon from egg with a different ethos, but rearing a dragon at all is a daunting task, and you'll essentially have the same problem of trying to keep a charm spell going for long periods; constant effort to keep the 'subject' dragon adhering to the alignment you WANT, which just gets harder and harder as the same subject matures and its will gets stronger and stronger.

Anyway, one is free to pitch all that out if one desires, but to do so is to make a radical change to one of the truly fundamental parts of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS. As such one's variant of the game would not be likely to find much acceptance for this variance by other players of the game.

And that's why I'm trying to work WITHIN the rules as they exist to find a niche for this creation we're considering...

@kuemper:
Expanding on what AE said, you need it to have a good dragon instead of an evil one. And all this cutesy-wootsy & mischievious stuff points strongly toward CG.

Pithril has to exist as AE stated for our Pink dragons to exist, since as he logically put it. Not everyone agrees with our assesment that the rules of D&D are rather stupid. lol

So Pithril (Pink Mithril) exists, allowing our Pink Dragon to be CG. Pithril, if a metal could be said to have an alignment, would be I think chaotic, especially if it has gold and copper in the mix. ;)

I wasnt really trying to change the rules, I was just stating that I think that forcing alignments on sentient creatures shouldnt be done, because that makes them less than sentient.

So, do we all now somewhat agree that this is a pink CG pithril-dragon?

So it would seem. ;)

And that it has two breath-weapons, which are SPAM and Cone of Cottoncandy(sound better than 'Cone of Candyfloss' :p ).
Also that it has an aura of cuteness which is negatet by the aura of ugliness :confused:

So, where would this dreaded creature live?

@DxA - I don't agree that the rules are stupid. I do say that they are more *guidelines* than flatout *rules*, otherwise there would be no point to the flexibility DMs have. Also, the alignments are not forced upon anyone - I could go into a big quotefest of the manuals, but since you dislike them... :heh:

@Fel - cuteness and mischieviness doesn't automatically make anything chaotic. But what do I know? <shrug>

Now that the creature is created, what's the link betwen PD and Tal?

You never stop, do ya :heh:

Hum? I want to uncover the truth behind Tal! That's all! I ain't doing it for fame or money or power only to discover the truth. I am an archeologist who want to specialise in Taluntry and Pink dragonry

Those secrets must be thousand of years old!

Well theres really nothing WotC can do to stop people from playing the game teh way they want to, aside from hiring gestap agents. lol

I didnt say I didnt like the manuals, in fact I find the manuals very interesting. Its just when it comes to playing the game, that I dont like particular rules or game concepts.

Pink Dragons... would live in... that astral plane! yeah thats it. :)

Pink Dragons... would live in... that astral plane! yeah thats itThe astral plane of.... :idea: cottoncandy

@DxA - oh no arguments that some D&D rules are stupid beyond belief, but my opinion is the rules are the rules. You gotta work within them to make things happen.

Hmmm....does that make me Lawful? :heh:


@ofelix - Don't look at me; I just was interested in working out a pink (ish) dragon to begin with. Go talk to Bion...or *Tal* :lol: Although the latter is far too busy for trivialities like that, and I think the former was quoted as saying "you can't handle the truth!" at one point so I dunno how successful your inquiries will be... :mommy:


@Olim - environment? I'll get to that... *cryptic smile*

environment? I'll get to that... *cryptic smileThat I do not doubt :heh:

The astral plane of.... :idea: cottoncandy I would think that the astral plane of Carnivale would be better .. :cool:

Right; it took a while (good thing I'm on vacation) but I've nailed down my take on the Pithril Dragon, and y'all can go check it out over here (http://www.sorcerers.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/8/839.html) (seemed more appropriate for GGF/D&D since my work takes no action on the whole 'Tal is a pinky' subcurrent here. :good: )

Whew! That was a fair bit o' work, and it's also the first new topic I've created! :banana: ENJOY!

hehehe that was so awesome, great work! :)

Perfect

Nice work.

The Astral Plane connects the Prime Material to the Outer Planes, the planes of the gods. The Etherial Plane connects the PM to the Inner Planes, or the elemental planes. These include the known planes of: Water, Fire, Air, Earth, Ooze, Magma, Ice, Smoke, Vacuum, Salt, Ash, Dust, Lightning, Steam, Radiance, Mineral, Positive, and Negative.

The Pink Sorcerer does not bow to godlings, or draw power from transit to the Outer Planes.

It is known that the Pink Dragon possesses great might. Two of the Pink Dragon's most greivous and mysterious powers are those of "candyfloss" and "SPAM." Some have speculated that "candyfloss" draws at the very least from the planes of Air, Smoke, and Radiance, and Mineral, while "SPAM" draws at the very least from Water, Ooze, Salt, and Ash. Others have speculated the existence of the additional, unexplored planes of Sugar and Nitrates.

No one has yet explained how the Pink Dragon has gained mastery over so many Elemental Planes, or the mystery of the Mixture of these Elements, or above all, the Meaning of Pink.

It is known as well that the Pink Sorcerer has power over the Ether, and particularly over "Nets" within the Ether. In addition, the Pink Sorcerer is capable of travel and linking across the Phlogiston, the medium that joins the worlds of the Prime Material Plane. Many Earth cultures, from the ancient Greeks to Native Americans, have associated the powers of instantaneous travel, communication, and trickery in a single spirit or god.

Are you saying's Tal's a god again? :lol:

... I don't feel that I'm being watched by a greater being.

Do you seek to the become an half pink dragon my dear Bion? That'll be awsome

This thread needs to keep going. hehe

'Twould seem the Pink Sorcerer has been busy at the forge (http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/2/7855.html) again. ;)