Is it just me or does no-one around here like Valygar. He rocks with the Celstial fury, his katana, boots of speed, a decent level, bracers of weapon skill, belt of hill giant strenth, and his own armour.
What do you guys have against him?

And if you use a green stone amulet, it goes away, where can you find another 1. I found it on some moving sword.

I must say Valygar does rock. He's a frontliner in my party, and a backup bakcstabber!

Backstabber? he's a ranger isn't he?

I like Valyar with Mazzy and some mages :p :) I gave him Lilacor

What! Valygar is a must with dual-weilding. He sucks with a two handed sword.

Silly people! Valygar is a Stalker...ie. He can backstab like a thief. up to X3 anyway.

Thats while using Katana's....of course.

Hes among the best. Dual wielded him with Celestial fury, and Jhor the bleeder, was my wizard stalker. But I think he's SOOO Booring, he doesn't say anything...

He is good, but when I found him I had the best party, so I prefered to kill him for the Tolgerias quest.

Valygar is great! I use him as an archer, a back-up fighter (ie he shoots at enemies until they close in, then draws his sword and hacks away) or a surprise attacker. He's one of my favourite NPC's, along with Minsc :D and Keldorn.

Valygar is an okay character, but there isn't really much to recommend him over any of the other fighter options (unless you are big into backstabbing, which I am not).

His armor restrictions as a Stalker are rather annoying (especially if you are dual wielding and don't get a shield) and he doesn't seem to have that much dialogue unless Mazzy is in your group. He's just sort of depressing to have around.

His main 'thing' seems to be starting out able to dual wield celestial fury, but its very easy to configure Minsc to do that by the time you generally take out the Guarded Compound if you are really keen on the idea. Then you could have Minsc with Celestial Fury and the Mace of Disruption+2 (and *good* armor!)

I've played with him in some games, but he's the lowest rated fighter in my personal rankings.

Mordenkainen's Sword used to drop a Greenstone Amulet when it died (they used this to make the sword immune to psionics and the like.) However that's been fixed in some patch.

The Greenstone Ammy can be easily be substituted (sp?) by potions of clarity, brine potions, chaotic commands, etc.

I never really bothered with Valygar actually. It's so much easier to kill him than to take him along to the planar sphere. :evil:

Well, I don't usually kill him. My normal plan is to 'release' a party member like Minsc, Yoshimo, or Nalia that returns to the Copper Coronet. Then Valygar opens the door and gets booted. I pick up the previous character and on we go. I didn't really find Valygar to add much to the sphere quest when I did include him.

Vormaerin, (your post above) that's because Valygar isnt a fighter! He's a ranger, and a stalker at that.

They are very different from rangers, or even fighters. They are Assassins and minor mages. He's not supposed to be used as a fighter.

I like Valygar. In my games he seems to say as much as any pc (apart from people like Minsc and Jan :rolleyes:) even without Mazzy. *shrug*

Hello guys!

I felt i had something to say about this, just because i think Valygar is one of the best in the game. Valygar with Corthala's family armor, with Celestial Fury and another Katana, perhaps Hindo's Doom or a Katana + 3 and to the end of the game, with Celestial Fury and BlackRazor...He's the best. I had him level 23, backstabb x5 multiplier, he is the guy to go make the discovering of any level hiding in shadows. I had him kill many many enemies alone. He is very good.
Goodbye...

Yappie, I think that what Vormaerin means, is that bringing Valygar along in the Sphere Quest, it doesn't give you something extra. You get some dialog, but that's hardly worth it.

Like I said, *unless you want to run around backstabbing alot (which I don't)*, then he's not an especially useful character. Everything else he does can be done as well or better by someone else, who is far less depressing to have around.

Oh, whoops, sorry. There was another post by Vormaerin in this thread. :o

Valygar is a champion.

My Valygar Dual Weilds Celestial Fury and His Katana (two best Katanas in game) and has Shadow Dragon armour. He can also wear Drow Full plate in underdark. Give him Baldurons Helmet, Ring of Earth Contol and Cloak of the sewers for a +3 AC advantage, and his sword gives him +2 against slashing, and alot of guys use slashing weapons. His 18 dex helps alot. With any Girdle of Giant strength he becomes a beast.

yeah, so? With that equipment, any fighter in the game would rock. THe only thing about that set up that is proprietary to Valygar is his personal katana and Malakar or Belm would be nearly as good. And the other fighters would still have better AC.

Its not that he's an awful character or is really hard to use. But his only special trait is his ability to backstab as a fighter. That's nice for some people, but doesn't do much for me.

He can also cast some nice spells. Insect plague can be really useful, also haste. Wearing the shadow dragon armor he had a lower AC than Anomen (wearing a full plate). He had about 40% of kills IIRC and that's with Anomen and me (a fighter/mage) and Minsc in the group. His major fault is that he is boring.

err, Insect plague? I don't recall him being able to cast level 5 druid spells. Are you sure about that?

I think he means the other one...the one that only affects a single target.

About the armor, I think that valygars armor rock. And rangers should not have any damn platemail, if so the only advantages he has over fighters is charm animal and some low druid spells, and he suffers grandmastery in weapons. Rangers shall have studded so they can stealth. Never play characvters because they are bether.

Valygar's Katana is nice because of the poison/bleeding damage it does, I forget which it is. It can take out a troll after then have collapsed. :)

:aaa:

Yup, sorry I meant summon insects - affects only one person but still useful.

I happen to like Valygar a lot. For one thing, he's the only black male in the game. For another, he doesn't cow to the PC like that brown-noser Mazzy.

For another, his backstabbing ability kicks butt over a thief's because of his much lower THACO. I think the much better chance to hit is a great trade-off for the slightly reduced damage multiplier at lower levels. With a good strength enhancer, his backstab is truly devastating.

He got great stealth too (better than Yoshimo), so he's very good at reconnaisance. Better yet, since he doesn't have to use an invisibility spell or potion, he can take out lone enemies and keep going on recon.

And he does talk about things, like disliking magic, wondering about Lavok's redeemability, asking about family, etc.

His armor is also great because it provides resistance to so many things, including charm-based spells. That frees him up to wear something other than a helmet of charm protection on his head.

I prefer letting him learn long sword as he levels up so that he can backstab with a hefty weapon (for some reason only Yoshimo seems to be able to backstab with a katana, plus there are some great long swords in the game).

His spells are really useful too, if you remember to use them. I like to give him spells that are not level-dependent for their results, since he doesn't cast as a high-level caster. he can be the one to memorize minor spells you always want to have around, like slow poison.

[This message has been edited by Bombur (edited May 07, 2002).]

Just a lil' correction here.

Any class who normally can backstab, also can backstab with katana that is useable by pure thief. This means backstabbing is available even with Celestial Fury for any backstabbing class (except cleric/thief because this class cannot use C. Fury at all).

The inability to backstab with Valygar's katana is something else. It is a bug. That katana (Corthala Family Blade) is set on not to be useable by "thief", and as such can't be used for backstabbing.

[This message has been edited by Extremist (edited May 07, 2002).]

Really? Cool! Guess I just gave up on the katana too soon.

While we're still on backstabbing. Can one backstab with a staff? I know you can't backstab with the staff of the magi (again I guess not usable by a tief) but what about other staffs?

(And please I am asking about in the game, not for opinions on whether it is logical to 'stab' someone with a two-meter stick).

One more good thing about Valygar: his racial enemy is the golem - of which there are many in the game. Helpful.

Not many golems?
Have you ever visited Windspear Hills, etc etc? [Edited in: Sorry, I totally sc**wed this one, I misread your post. Slim, thanks for notice. I'm probably too sleepy... :(]

Fo backstabbing you may use ANY melee weapon that pure thief class can use. Weapons available to DC or MC thief, but not to pure thief can't be used for backstabbing. Staffs that thieves may use can also be a backstabbing weapon.


[This message has been edited by Extremist (edited May 08, 2002).]

No, no. He said there are many golems in the game.

notice how Ex said "he sc***ed this post". IE.made a mistake.

There is nothing wrong to admit you were wrong about something. Even when it comes to posting. At least I think that. If I was wrong, well, I'll say I was wrong. I'm not keeping the point even after it's obvious the point was uncorrect.

Now, back to the topic, ok? ;)

Here's my dilemna - wondering who I should keep in my party when I get to leave Chapter 2. Valygar or Keldorn?

Rest of my party is Minsc, Jaheira, Yoshimo, Aerie, and myself - a cavalier (albeit one without proficiency in two handed sword (for the Holy Avenger when I get the guts to go get it))

I've played with Keldorn for a while and he seems pretty strong and just got Valygar to go do the Planar Sphere.

Any recommendations? Thanks :roll:

I'd say dump Yoshimo, and get both Keldorn and Valygar. Yoshimo is my Anomen :)

Drop Keldorn. Keldorn chews A**.

only 17 str and 09 Dex. 09 dex?

(Ramble On)
Plus he is so damn annoying. I am sick of those Order Freaks. Him an Anomen. (Who also incidently has low Dex. Maybe that is a prerequisite of joining the order of the bleeding heart. You have to be a goofy uncordinated annoying little B****.)


I have Amonen in my party. Oh it hurts me so. Dumping as soon as i can get good fighter guy from TOB. (Who I may or may not be allowed to mention here)
When I cleared out the guarded compound (which IMNSHO, is the 3rd hardest battle in the game), he started bragging about how boring our battles are, and how many damn giants he slaughtered. If he didn't have over 2.5 million xp already I would have my Dust Memphit slowly eat him alive.

(/Ramble)

I'm only keeping Yoshimo till I can get Imoen back...

Valygar only has 17 strength too, and keldorn's 9 dex can be upgraded with the gauntlets of dexterity...

I guess the question is what "better/necessary" abilities does one provide over the other for the long haul... given the current makeup of my party

The Dexterity of Keldorn is easily increased with the Gloves of Dexterity, and with the amount of Strength increasing belts in the game, I doubt that's much of a problem either.

It's very simple really. Don't like Anomen? Don't take him into your party. It's not like he's forced on you or something.

On the Keldorn chewing A**, I think everyone should be allowed to eat whatever they want. To judge someone on his food is discrimination in my opinion. :p

The thing was, I didn't realise how annoying Amonen was when I got him in my party. Now it is too late.

Keldorn is phycotic anyway. He has his wife arrested and kills his wifes lover. Id take Valygars boringness over Keldorns or Amonens bleeding hearts anyway. I play as an assaisin, and almost everytime I spoke to a fellow shadow theives, he starts whining about how much he hates associating with theives. He never complained once when we sold out soulfuren, phaere, the matron mother and the silver dragon. Or when I killed Drizzit. He just really doesn't like those theives.

Drives me insane it does.

Zakar,

I think the Keldorn doesn't suit your personality. You'd be much happier with Korgan. :) Anyway, Keldorn only goes crazy like that if you egg him on. He never does that in my games. As for the drow situation, why should he care if you doublecross a bunch of demon worshippers? He's an INQUISITOR. He hunts down diabolists for a living. Saving the world and general do-goodying is just a hobby.

Anyway, to answer the original poster:

In general, Keldorn is more effective if that is what you are asking. Both will do a good job as fighters. Valygar has some minor spellcasting ability and is very good at stealth. Keldorn has the super Dispel and True Sight. He can also use Carsomyr, though you can as well if you want to get the proficiency.

So it depends on your playstyle. If you want to do a lot of scouting via stealth, you probably want Valygar since he is appreciably better at it than the rest of your party. You could use Minsc or Imoen for that if you really wanted to. They just wouldn't be quite as good at it. If you aren't concerned about stealth issues, your party will be stronger with Keldorn than with Valygar.

Perhaps I got alittle carried away in my hatred of the Order of the Bleeding Heart Duo. I just thought that Amonen might detest betraying a Silver Dragon. (A creature of Goodness and rightousness)

Honestly, I do believe that Valygar has the ability to stand up to a 1 on 1 match against Keldorn and win. Arm Him with the Impailer or Celestial Fury and a nice Bow (Elven Court or Heartseaker) and he is an extreamly effective front line fighter. His extra abilities (Mage, Priest and Druid spells, as well as backstab and move in shadows) make up for any lack of armour he may have.


P.S Korgan rocks.

[This message has been edited by Zakar (edited May 15, 2002).]

There are numerous reasons for getting Valygar early and keeping him in the team. A main reason is his high dexterity, and good all round stats including reasonable intelligence (12, I think). So, he can cast from wands of magic missile, read priest scrolls and can survive a mindflaying experience - just about. All this is more than Minsc can do and Anomen and Keldorn really need the gauntlets of dexterity to make their armour class respectable. I never put Keldorn in my party as I don't want another slow wielding two-handed swordman - Valygar is much faster with any katana. I do the Unseeing eye quest late on so that a lich will spawn in ghoul town (only appears if you're high level). This means a lot of waiting for the gauntlets of dexterity.

I do keep Anomen who is great with the sling of seeking and Minsc who's good with 2-handed sword and has racial bonus against vampires.

Minsc doesn't make it to my TOB party, but Valygar does.